RockMyAmadeus

Um. No, it's actually presenting the facts as they ARE, not misstated to make it appear more serious than it actually is. When you don't put it in context, people are misled all the same, intentionally or not. Context matters. So you feel the intent was to mislead everyone, Nope. Didn't say anything remotely like that. You misstated it to appear more serious than it was, but knowing you, you didn't do it to mislead. I'm sure you actually believed what you wrote. Subtle distinction, but there nonetheless. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify it. Wrapped-around-the-axle? What is it with you guys and your incessent need for hyperbole that totally overblows the actual situation? No one is "wrapped-around-an-axle." You misstated something. You were corrected. Simple. Now, you want to talk about wrapped-around-the-axle, shall I discuss the points value of a Primer #6 in the registry....? You are again wrong. As stated above, I wasn't questioning your intent at all. You made a mistake. You were corrected. Easy cheesy.

Not everything needs to be a battle. Not everything is an attack. Not everything needs his higher moral order. Not everything needs his opinion. Not everything is about Mikenyc88. See how easy that is to say...? See how invalid it is, no matter WHO it's said about? Unrestrained hyperbole demonstrates a very weak position. You continue to demonstrate how clueless you are about things around here.

Um. No, it's actually presenting the facts as they ARE, not misstated to make it appear more serious than it actually is. When you don't put it in context, people are misled all the same, intentionally or not. Context matters.

Yay. I'll take it.

You continue to demonstrate just how little you really know or understand about much of anything that happens around here, but act as if you do. My prediction stands.

The law creates a serious and very clear dividing line between murder and theft. That "$25,000 transaction" is misleading, as it never happened. It would be more correct to say a "$1,000 loss in a proposed transaction." As noted before, it is petty AND grand theft. No one is downplaying anything. I am glad, however, that you have moved to the possibility of redemption should such a (I agree) miraculous event occur.

By the way...... I believe there is at least one person (and no, I don't know who, just arguing stats) that is on the list not because they purposely decided to defraud people, but rather, out of frustration, just gave up and wrote the board off. This would be due directly to the crushing weight of many people condemning them, constantly, from all sides. Whereas, if someone applied persistent but gentle pressure, holding out hope and encouragement, at least one person so inclined would, instead, be willing to fix things to everyone's satisfaction. Yes, I know the board isn't a replacement dad. I know that. Nor am I suggesting that it's likely that the above scenario even exists. And I know that such compassion is far above and beyond what could reasonably be expected of anyone. But this board...man, it's hard to find another group of people who are so quick to condemn and criticize, and so slow to forgive and offer the chance for redemption. And when that scenario exists, a person who might otherwise be inclined to NOT take the money and run just gives up in frustration. Whereas, hope is a powerful, powerful motivator. Something to think about.

If I point out that he didn't make ANY points aside from those that criticize and denigrate me, would I have accurately interpreted your implication...? (thumbs u Let me rephrase... " ...a lot of good points from everyone here. " Fair enough. Whew! ... barely dodged that speeding bullet & oncoming train Oh please. I'm a harmless teddy bear...just asking for clarification.

I agree with this 100% My point is that there are positive ways to move the young knob off the path to knobdom. They may take them and they may not. CapFreak did not. I know your background and I know that you have seen more than your share of bad eggs, that no amount of work was going to make them good eggs. I have been fortunate to be a part of a couple different programs that have taken recidivist delinquents and helped them turn themselves around. It doesn't always work, by any stretch of the imagination, but it does sometimes. I know that this discussion cropped up around CapFreak. To me, it is not about CapFreak, it is about all the other CapFreaks out there who may be painted with the broad brush that he (perhaps rightfully) has been painted. It is one of my real hot buttons, and I appreciate the indulgence. Yeah, that's pretty much my point as well. As you noted, CapFreak was but the example at hand. And I can respect that point. It carries significant weight. There's so much that can be observed from the way a child, adolescent or teen handles a test of morality or ethics. I am not saying that anyone is beyond redemption. It's quite the contrary. To me, those that seek redemption can attain it if they are sincere enough in the pursuit. That sincerity involves overcoming the past behavior, not washing it away immediately. However, many of the young offenders never reach the sincere point of desiring redemption rendering the potential for growth moot. (Emphasis mine) No one is suggesting this. Also quite the contrary. Those seeking redemption (at least temporally) SHOULD be willing to do whatever it takes to make redemption, especially for the petty acts we see described here. We're not talking about murder, here, and yes, the HOS IS a punishment of sorts. It is public shame. You know the power of public shame. It most surely is a punishment, for anyone who has a sense of shame to begin with (and I guarantee at least a few on the list do have their senses of shame intact.)

I agree with this 100% My point is that there are positive ways to move the young knob off the path to knobdom. They may take them and they may not. CapFreak did not. I know your background and I know that you have seen more than your share of bad eggs, that no amount of work was going to make them good eggs. I have been fortunate to be a part of a couple different programs that have taken recidivist delinquents and helped them turn themselves around. It doesn't always work, by any stretch of the imagination, but it does sometimes. I know that this discussion cropped up around CapFreak. To me, it is not about CapFreak, it is about all the other CapFreaks out there who may be painted with the broad brush that he (perhaps rightfully) has been painted. It is one of my real hot buttons, and I appreciate the indulgence. I definitely agree. I think that what separates most minors with criminal histories and the rest of us without, is they got caught. When I reflect back on all the stupid things I did when I was younger, many I'm not proud of, some not so legal, most dangerous, I thank God that I was one of the fortunate ones. If you think that what "separates most minors with criminal histories and the rest of us...is they got caught", well, let's just say...the Fail is strong with you. There are millions and millions of kids, all over the world, who manage to live through their entire childhoods, and even their entire lives, without committing a crime that would give them "a criminial history." Redemption IS possible for all. The only way it's NOT possible is by unforgiving, heartless people like you. I know this may be a subtle (oops!) concept for you to grasp, but the possibility of redemption shouldn't lie with whether or not the condemned wishes to be redeemed. It should be an open door through which the condemned MAY be able to enter, should they wish. To slam that door shut, as you state, depending on what YOU think is and is not "forgivable" makes you judge, jury, and executioner. And, frankly, you're not qualified.

If I point out that he didn't make ANY points aside from those that criticize and denigrate me, would I have accurately interpreted your implication...? (thumbs u Let me rephrase... " ...a lot of good points from everyone here. " Fair enough.

I agree with this 100% My point is that there are positive ways to move the young knob off the path to knobdom. They may take them and they may not. CapFreak did not. I know your background and I know that you have seen more than your share of bad eggs, that no amount of work was going to make them good eggs. I have been fortunate to be a part of a couple different programs that have taken recidivist delinquents and helped them turn themselves around. It doesn't always work, by any stretch of the imagination, but it does sometimes. I know that this discussion cropped up around CapFreak. To me, it is not about CapFreak, it is about all the other CapFreaks out there who may be painted with the broad brush that he (perhaps rightfully) has been painted. It is one of my real hot buttons, and I appreciate the indulgence. Yeah, that's pretty much my point as well. As you noted, CapFreak was but the example at hand.

If I point out that he didn't make ANY points aside from those that criticize and denigrate me, would I have accurately interpreted your implication...? (thumbs u

No one, at any time, suggested, implied, or even hinted that forgiveness has anything whatsoever...in any conceivable way, by any possible measure...to do with anything you've just stated. In fact...if you bother to actually comprehend what is written, you will notice that complete accountability and restitution is required before even a consideration of forgiveness would be given. Forgiveness has absolutely nothing....let me repeat that....nothing...to do with concepts like "there is no wrong answer", "everyone is equal", "there should be no losers." I sure hope you don't ever need forgiveness for anything in life. I know it's difficult to comprehend but every post on these boards is not about you. The pious soap box that you preach upon does not behoove you. (thumbs u From saving Paypal Personal to removing the Sword of Damacles hanging above the head of a troubled boy on the HOS, you have the uncanny ability of being obnoxious. Before calling my comprehension skills into question, chiggity check yourself. Yes you made a post that took the conversation in a different direction but every comment made thereafter does not require a response from you. I was referring to the post that Comix made about placing some responsibility on a minor and making the completely logical connection that many, but not all, minors who act out in a criminal manor continue that behavior into adulthood. My response, not to you, was that the behaviors instilled in children nowadays seems to foster a sense of entitlement that I believe adds to the occurrence of negative actions which are compleyely self fulfilling to the detriment of others. I apologize for not quoting your comment and responding directly but I felt Comix did a superb job, which is why I was responding to his post. My goodness Mike A serious post??? No mention of monkeys in cowboy costumes, mekrab, or inappropriate uses for Batman's utility belt. I stand in complete and utter Seriously though, you make an excellent point above about the evolution/entrenchment of such behavioral patterns A snide, intensely rude and hostile post is what you call "serious"...? Really...?

No one, at any time, suggested, implied, or even hinted that forgiveness has anything whatsoever...in any conceivable way, by any possible measure...to do with anything you've just stated. In fact...if you bother to actually comprehend what is written, you will notice that complete accountability and restitution is required before even a consideration of forgiveness would be given. Forgiveness has absolutely nothing....let me repeat that....nothing...to do with concepts like "there is no wrong answer", "everyone is equal", "there should be no losers." I sure hope you don't ever need forgiveness for anything in life. I know it's difficult to comprehend but every post on these boards is not about you. The pious soap box that you preach upon does not behoove you. (thumbs u From saving Paypal Personal to removing the Sword of Damacles hanging above the head of a troubled boy on the HOS, you have the uncanny ability of being obnoxious. Before calling my comprehension skills into question, chiggity check yourself. Yes you made a post that took the conversation in a different direction but every comment made thereafter does not require a response from you. I was referring to the post that Comix made about placing some responsibility on a minor and making the completely logical connection that many, but not all, minors who act out in a criminal manner continue that behavior into adulthood. My response, not to you, was that the behaviors instilled in children nowadays seems to foster a sense of entitlement that I believe adds to the occurrence of negative actions which are completely self fulfilling to the detriment of others. I apologize for not quoting your comment and responding directly but I felt Comix did a superb job, which is why I was responding to his post. Hostile, snide, and ultimately false commentary doesn't make your points any less invalid. You implied a line of commentary that simply did not exist. Since you're oblivious to the reality of the situation, I'll explain it to you more clearly: Comix4fun ALSO wasn't talking about your implication. His comment had to do with the predictability of bad behavior later in life. Neither he nor I said anything even remotely connected to the "coddling of children", as you did. And, I know you don't want to deal with this fact, because it cripples your "argument", but Comix4fun was responding directly to me. THAT means that, even though you were responding to him, the comments YOU were responding to were predicated by MY comments, and since BOTH sets of comments had nothing to do with what you were suggesting, you still fail. I know. Logic is hard. Just like math. And a personal note to you: you try far too hard. You are desperate for people to like you on this board. That usually manifests in you making inappropriate "jokes" and comments at the wrong time, and being a self-righteous, aggressively snide tool to people you perceive on the board are "weak." Mark these words: if you do not clean up your act, you WILL end up a pariah. Good luck with that.

Oh for crying out loud. No one suggested this. No one even implied this. There is a MASSIVE, MASSIVE difference between the POSSIBILITY of forgiveness, and your statement. MASSIVE difference. As stated quite clearly before, the entire weight of proving oneself would rest on the guilty party, and would have to be so compelling, so convincing, so far above and beyond what they did to land on the list, over such a consistent period of time, as to convince even the most unforgiving board member. This is NOT "bending over backwards."

No one, at any time, suggested, implied, or even hinted that forgiveness has anything whatsoever...in any conceivable way, by any possible measure...to do with anything you've just stated. In fact...if you bother to actually comprehend what is written, you will notice that complete accountability and restitution is required before even a consideration of forgiveness would be given. Forgiveness has absolutely nothing....let me repeat that....nothing...to do with concepts like "there is no wrong answer", "everyone is equal", "there should be no losers." I sure hope you don't ever need forgiveness for anything in life.

Because the discussion is worthwhile, and has ramifications in life far beyond this message board.

I'll take it.

Yeah, I saw an example of this a few pages back, some tool was complaining about a transaction he had in 2009. That's right...about someone who was unrepentant and unwilling to do anything to resolve it... WORLD of difference.

It would depend entirely on the situation, and what AlleyBat or any of the others did FIRST to prove their trustworthiness. And the point isn't whether it stops anyone from doing business with them, either. That is self-evidently not true. Look, I understand that there are rotten people who will never change, and some of them (a lot of them) seem to end up in comics. And if someone has no interest in proving their worth, fine. Forever they should stay. I'm sure the vast majority of the people on these lists care not one whit about it. But the lack of forgiveness for people who genuinely seek it (and even those who don't) doesn't hurt THEM. It hurts US. To cut off even the POSSIBILITY for forgiveness is a terrible, soul killing action. None of us is not guilty of something, even if not a specific criminal act. The possibility that forgiveness could be obtained if sought should always, always, always be open....

Sorry, can't agree. There is nobody on that list that I could ever trust again. That you guys shut off even the POSSIBILITY of rehabilitation goes a longgggggg way towards explaining the suspicious, defensive, hostile, and unforgiving general attitude this board has. And just because YOU couldn't trust them, doesn't mean that nobody should ever trust them again, as long as they live. Not you, Torchy, I do think you're the bees knees. Don't want you to get the wrong impression...I don't mean you personally. I mean, in general, this attitude bleeds over to the boards all the time. People say something, for example, that someone doesn't like and 5 years, 10 years, 20 years down the line, it's stil thrown back in their face. That's NOT healthy, and it's NOT something that should be encouraged.

No depressing world here - and I can be very forgiving. But I also realize when someone keeps showing the same poor character flaws there is a very strong potential for that activity to get worse - not better. And after all he did, and folks still kept forgiving him - including Divad who tried to pull him off the probation list - he then goes and screws over Steve Borock and his business by tampering with his business cell phone message. So it is a world of reality. Sorry to hit you with a dose of it. Pay very close attention to the words I am about to type, Bosco, because they are incredibly important and bear a TREMENDOUS amount of weight to this situation: CAP FREAK IS A KID. He's, what, 19 now? Are you even aware that people do not finish developing (man, I sound like a wacky liberal) until their mid 20's? Cap Freak, like all kids, got away with what he got away with because people trusted him with more than he was capable of handling (obviously!) Stupid kids deserve the right to grow up. If he was 30, I would agree with you. He is not. He was a kid. Should he be given a VERY short leash? Oh, you betcha. Should he be made to provide restitution to everyone he wronged, to THEIR satisfaction? Oh, you betcha. Should he be trusted with ANYTHING until he has demonstrated consistently, over a VERY long period of time, that he's capable of that trust? Hell no! Does he deserve to be on the HOS when he's 40? Please.

Sorry, can't agree. There is nobody on that list that I could ever trust again. That you guys shut off even the POSSIBILITY of rehabilitation goes a longgggggg way towards explaining the suspicious, defensive, hostile, and unforgiving general attitude this board has. And just because YOU couldn't trust them, doesn't mean that nobody should ever trust them again, as long as they live.