RockMyAmadeus

Yeah, I saw an example of this a few pages back, some tool was complaining about a transaction he had in 2009. That's right...about someone who was unrepentant and unwilling to do anything to resolve it... WORLD of difference.

It would depend entirely on the situation, and what AlleyBat or any of the others did FIRST to prove their trustworthiness. And the point isn't whether it stops anyone from doing business with them, either. That is self-evidently not true. Look, I understand that there are rotten people who will never change, and some of them (a lot of them) seem to end up in comics. And if someone has no interest in proving their worth, fine. Forever they should stay. I'm sure the vast majority of the people on these lists care not one whit about it. But the lack of forgiveness for people who genuinely seek it (and even those who don't) doesn't hurt THEM. It hurts US. To cut off even the POSSIBILITY for forgiveness is a terrible, soul killing action. None of us is not guilty of something, even if not a specific criminal act. The possibility that forgiveness could be obtained if sought should always, always, always be open....

Sorry, can't agree. There is nobody on that list that I could ever trust again. That you guys shut off even the POSSIBILITY of rehabilitation goes a longgggggg way towards explaining the suspicious, defensive, hostile, and unforgiving general attitude this board has. And just because YOU couldn't trust them, doesn't mean that nobody should ever trust them again, as long as they live. Not you, Torchy, I do think you're the bees knees. Don't want you to get the wrong impression...I don't mean you personally. I mean, in general, this attitude bleeds over to the boards all the time. People say something, for example, that someone doesn't like and 5 years, 10 years, 20 years down the line, it's stil thrown back in their face. That's NOT healthy, and it's NOT something that should be encouraged.

No depressing world here - and I can be very forgiving. But I also realize when someone keeps showing the same poor character flaws there is a very strong potential for that activity to get worse - not better. And after all he did, and folks still kept forgiving him - including Divad who tried to pull him off the probation list - he then goes and screws over Steve Borock and his business by tampering with his business cell phone message. So it is a world of reality. Sorry to hit you with a dose of it. Pay very close attention to the words I am about to type, Bosco, because they are incredibly important and bear a TREMENDOUS amount of weight to this situation: CAP FREAK IS A KID. He's, what, 19 now? Are you even aware that people do not finish developing (man, I sound like a wacky liberal) until their mid 20's? Cap Freak, like all kids, got away with what he got away with because people trusted him with more than he was capable of handling (obviously!) Stupid kids deserve the right to grow up. If he was 30, I would agree with you. He is not. He was a kid. Should he be given a VERY short leash? Oh, you betcha. Should he be made to provide restitution to everyone he wronged, to THEIR satisfaction? Oh, you betcha. Should he be trusted with ANYTHING until he has demonstrated consistently, over a VERY long period of time, that he's capable of that trust? Hell no! Does he deserve to be on the HOS when he's 40? Please.

Sorry, can't agree. There is nobody on that list that I could ever trust again. That you guys shut off even the POSSIBILITY of rehabilitation goes a longgggggg way towards explaining the suspicious, defensive, hostile, and unforgiving general attitude this board has. And just because YOU couldn't trust them, doesn't mean that nobody should ever trust them again, as long as they live.

This is not something I could support. I have simply known too many manipulative people that can put on a show for a period of time in order to achieve a larger end (i.e. re-ingratiating themselves here and have access to the marketplace). I understand that others hold different views and I am going apples/oranges here (with not so serious funny books versus violent crime), but there is a valid reason in my mind that felons/sex offenders do have certain rights limited even after serving their time and paying their fines. Part of the consequence of the egregious behavior remains as a warning/safegaurd to the community even after the time is served. Perhaps it sounds overly selfish, but I did not join this community to provide this type of rehabilitation to repeat/egregious offenders and perhaps become a future target (talking HOS here, not PL where I see the need to remove folks that have resolved their issue). Interesting discussion this afternoon though + 1 For someone to go down the path of the HOS, you really had to go out of your way to force board members to go down this path. And Capfreak was a 4-time probation list member before he landed where he did. It didn't help any when he thumbed his nose at everyone, daring them to put him on the list. That HOS honor should be for a lifetime to set the tone for others what not to do in these situations. You really think someone like Cap Freak, who is STILL a stupid kid, should be on this HOS his ENTIRE LIFE? That 10 or 20 years from now, he couldn't even POTENTIALLY have grown up and cleaned up his act? Really...? What a depressing, unforgiving world you live in.

This is not something I could support. I have simply known too many manipulative people that can put on a show for a period of time in order to achieve a larger end (i.e. re-ingratiating themselves here and have access to the marketplace). I understand that others hold different views and I am going apples/oranges here (with not so serious funny books versus violent crime), but there is a valid reason in my mind that felons/sex offenders do have certain rights limited even after serving their time and paying their fines. Part of the consequence of the egregious behavior remains as a warning/safegaurd to the community even after the time is served. Perhaps it sounds overly selfish, but I did not join this community to provide this type of rehabilitation to repeat/egregious offenders and perhaps become a future target (talking HOS here, not PL where I see the need to remove folks that have resolved their issue). Interesting discussion this afternoon though As you noted, we are not dealing with violent criminals. As *I* implied, there ARE people who we do lock up and throw away the key. Neither of these circumstances apply here. As I also stated, the effort would have to be so serious as to be beyond question by even the most unforgiving board member there is. The vast, vast majority of manipulators...and I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know...eventually get bored with trying to prove that they have rehabilitated, and move on to much easier marks. The effort necessary would be far beyond even the most dedicated of manipulators effort... ....AND...the usual caveat emptor would still be in place. Buyers/sellers must take normal and regular precaution in dealing with anyone. That respnsibility isn't abdicated by the Prob/HOS. I regularly see buyers and sellers engage in risky business dealings ALL THE TIME here, and that is utter foolishness. People who don't insure packages, people who buy again from sellers they have already received overgraded books from, people who are fly by night but have "killer" books...all sorts of nonsense that could avoid 95% of the problems if people simply paid attention. No one is asking anyone to "provide" rehabilitation to anyone. However..the very fact that such a list exists in the first place means that while the process for condemnation exists, so too, should the process for rehabilitation. We are NOT talking about violent criminals, after all. We are talking about petty and grand theft.

And even people on the HOS should have the opportunity to fix things.... And yes, the opportunity should be far, far, far above and beyond the original infractions...but if Dan, or Cap Freak, or whomever showed up and made a serious, compelling, and persistent effort to clear their names, yes, even they should be removed.

Jay was removed from the list once he made things right with every impacted member - isn't that right? If I'm confused with that situation, please let me know. But he didn't come off that list instantly, because I remember impacted buyers checking with each other to make sure everyone was made whole. If the point of this thread is to warn new buyers & sellers of people to avoid, why in the world would a mass offender ever be removed from the list completely(wasn't he the one who stiffed a bunch of friends)? I can understand having a notation that they were shamed into making things right & to deal with at your own risk, but personally, the names should remain on a list as a warning to new members. Emphatically NO. There is a reason we don't send people guilty of stealing a loaf of bread to jail for the rest of their lives. This board needs to show forgiveness and compassion to a MUCH, MUCH higher degree than it currently shows, and taking people off who have..watch me now...successfully resolved any and all outstanding claims against them is part of that process. Once someone has paid their debt to society, they shouldn't then have to wear a scarlet letter forever.

A 9.8? Or just a generic copy? I could certainly bring any or all.... Looking for a 9.8 ish probably raw,because along with the Showcase 22 I would be tapped with a 9.8 slabbed. So, you want a 9.8 quality book, but don't want to pay the 9.8 quality price...? I see. No! I want a 9.6/9.8 raw and pay 100 dollars or so,instead of paying 500 for a graded one. Ohhhhh....I see. You want a book that could go either 9.8 or 9.6, but don't want to pay either the 9.8 or 9.6 price, both of which are substantially higher than $100.... I see. Good luck! I did say "or so" regardless would rather pay raw price than slabbed,because 2500 dollars is going to a Showcase 22,and I only have enough for a raw book.(meant in a good way) (thumbs u

A 9.8? Or just a generic copy? I could certainly bring any or all.... Looking for a 9.8 ish probably raw,because along with the Showcase 22 I would be tapped with a 9.8 slabbed. So, you want a 9.8 quality book, but don't want to pay the 9.8 quality price...? I see. No! I want a 9.6/9.8 raw and pay 100 dollars or so,instead of paying 500 for a graded one. Ohhhhh....I see. You want a book that could go either 9.8 or 9.6, but don't want to pay either the 9.8 or 9.6 price, both of which are substantially higher than $100.... I see. Good luck!

Hey Green. Believe me I am sympathetic on this point with you. Just curious, what reasons were given to you by the seller to justify his actions. Did they pull the books from the FOR SALE thread or refuse to sell to you specifically? I refuse to sell to Green during basketball season, especially when NC is having an exceptionally good year. He just gets so obnoxious. Green posted ...? I have to see it to believe it.

A 9.8? Or just a generic copy? I could certainly bring any or all.... Looking for a 9.8 ish probably raw,because along with the Showcase 22 I would be tapped with a 9.8 slabbed. So, you want a 9.8 quality book, but don't want to pay the 9.8 quality price...? I see.

A 9.8? Or just a generic copy? I could certainly bring any or all....

I still want someone to address this, please? I haven't forgotten you, Ginjy....as soon as I run across a copy, I'll post....

(thumbs u Such a child. It is a shame your anger management counselor just can't achieve that breakthrough he is looking for. You'll get there - one day. Oh Lord, get over it. If you didn't react, he'd eventually forget about it. Even if he did bring it up, everyone would have forgotten what it was about. It's only because you react so spectacularly that he brings it up. And it's funny every single time, because you react. Stop reacting, and it loses its power.

Thought this was worth posting here... Anybody else have a set....?

So, you think you have a right to put someone on a probation list just because they don't invoice you in a timely fashion?!? Do the math & pay up. If you're uncertain about the total, PM the seller. What a crock of B.S. I was being sarcastic, but lets say it was a AF15 I bought in his sales thread and he waited to total me up (give me his email and shipping charges so I can pay) in the time he waited he sold it to someone else...... just saying that if I was a seller I would contact the buyer via PM at the time I post the "winna" dude with a total and the option to hold the books if he wanted to see if thread was still ongoing, which by the way is what he did the previous two times I bought from him. It is not a crock of BS I admitted that I did post the "I'll take it" but he jumped the gun tryin to ruin my name because I did not respond fast enough to his threats. I will repeat it again for you as either you did not read the initial thread or did not comprehend it. AllI asked for mins after he initially PM'd me was "which books they were" I could not find any post that I had that was not paid for and he replied with a dollar amount and a threat. I am sorry but if someone says I owe them money I want to make sure that I do, maybe he made a mistake and thought that I didn't pay for a batch that I already did. But back to the subject at hand, yes, I think that a seller should be more punctual. I have had another transaction recently that I waited nearly a week for a total from the seller Most of your posts are incredibly difficult to read because you do not use paragraph breaks, capitalization, or punctuation properly.

Not yet. Of course, he abandoned the board, so I doubt it will be read, but I'll give it a shot. He may not be posting, but he's still lurking. He sent me a PM in response to one of my WTB threads a few months ago. PM sent.

This is way too whiny, and really not the point of the list at all. You better watch it, or I'll nominate YOU.

Not yet. Of course, he abandoned the board, so I doubt it will be read, but I'll give it a shot.

At least you got it out of your system. Oh, I got it out of my system when he tried his "investment" scheme back in 2010, but since the rule change to include ALL transactions, it's worth a shot to try it here.

I know it may not cover past transgressions, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

Oh, by the way.... Since the rules now apply to ANY transaction regardless of venue, I'd like to nominate Dekuekelare or whatever his name is. In Jan, 2009, he won a Batman #428 CGC 9.8 from me on ebay for $405. I shipped the book out to him via Free Media Mail (his choice.) When he received the book, he complained about the CGC grade, in particular that they had graded it a 9.8 with a tiny loose (not detached) chip in the BRC, common on these books. He claimed it had been damaged after the fact. I assured him that I knew exactly what he was talking about, that it was, in fact, NOT damaged, but that if he wasn't happy with CGC's grade, he should send it back. On the off chance that it WAS damaged (though what he was describing was not), it was fully insured, as always. Instead of paying for return shipping, as he should have done, he took the book and the box it was shipped in back to the post office several days later (4 or 6, it's recorded somewhere else on these boards) and, in contravention to USPS regulations, "refused" the box so he could send it back for free. USPS regulations state that an item must be UNOPENED to qualify for refusal. The box then got lost in the USPS system. Obviously, the USPS doesn't care much for Refused Media Mail. After it had been lost in the mail for a month, "Dekeuk" wrote me and threatened me, stating that if I didn't pay him back his money...despite me having clearly NOT received the item back yet...he would file a Paypal claim...and that is precisely what he did. To date, that remains my first, last, and only charge-back EVER intitiated against me in 11+ years with Paypal. I have never in my life heard of a company refunding someone before they received the product back. Paypal ripped the money out of my account, and I was forced to cover it...even though, again, I had not received the item back, and proper protocol is to wait and file an insurance claim against loss. He didn't like CGC's grading, which has nothing to do with me. He couldn't be bothered to pay for return shipping. He broke USPS regulations in returning the book. He filed a Paypal claim against me, even though it was HIS fault the book hadn't shown up back to me. It eventually showed up a couple months down the road, but the damage had been long done. I had been timing the market, and after 3-4 more months, the value of the book had nearly halved, so I was only able to get $250 out of it. The subsequent buyer was quite pleased with the book and its grade. In my mind, "Dekeuk" still owes me the difference, especially for the grief and damage to my Paypal reputation he put me through. Dekeuk was later involved in an investment scheme on these boards, and disappeared entirely when called on it.

Decidedly fixed. What's your issue? I thought it was fairly clear already.