trademarkcomics

And my final word on this... But seriously, I'm choosing to concentrate on getting the thread back on track. So I'm not responding to anything personal from anyone from now on.

I'm trying not to, I promise I am. I've tried to ignore him but he attacks every one of my posts. I'm not here just to debate. I like differing opinions, but I don't like personal attacks(on me or anyone else for that matter). I just go...

I obviously agree, so I don't get why he brought Doomsday up*... *Other than he's just looking to make trouble...again.

If a character is described sufficiently, I don't need to see them with my eyes to get a picture of what they look like. Hence they appear...in my mind. There are obviously exceptions to any rule. Nice. Ah. So you don't really care about what people here care about. It's downright shocking you don't along with anyone.

Comics have been and always shall be predominately a visual medium just like TV and movies. We're not talking about a novel or a radio program. So the art may well be a "part" but it's easily 50% of the experience, but probably more. And even in novel or radio programs, if the character is simply described(and preferably named), then they have made an appearance in the story. EDIT: And comic book collecting is superficial by default. If you think collecting should be deeper than that, then what are you doing on a forum of a site that champions superficiality(Grading the beauty of a comic book)?

Are you kidding? I wouldn't take less than $999.99 for that(and pretty much anything else we sell). Of course, I could be like StockDoc and charge $10,000 for it...

Well, to put this issue to rest(yeah, right), my point of view is the following: First, an appearance is just that, the character appears, as in they are seen. No shadows, or just a body part, or them in the process of getting empowered, etc. They are seen(at least their face) and preferably named. Regardless of what issue is the post popular and sought after introductory issue, these are the first published in-story appearances(no matter how brief) in our world of most of the characters/entities in question in this thread... (Newsstand data provided by Mike's Amazing World) Wolverine: Incredible Hulk #180, Newsstand Date: July 2, 1974 Gambit: X-Men Annual #14, Newsstand Date: May 29, 1990 Black Costume Symbiote: Amazing Spider-Man #252, Newsstand Date: January 31, 1984 Venom: Amazing Spider-Man #299, December 8, 1987 Phoenix: X-Men #101, July 20, 1976 Darkseid: Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134, October 13, 1970 Taskmaster: Avengers #195, February 19, 1980 James Rhodes: Iron Man #118, October 24, 1978 Wendell Vaughn: Captain America #217, Newsstand Date: October 11, 1977 If any of you can find an earlier published appearance then please continue discussing it. But as the progenitor of this here thread, I will no longer hear any more rubbish about how a cameo or brief appearance doesn't count or how a body part or preview in some magazine does count. And name changes should never be worth as much as a character's first appearance, now if they add a costume/powers change to that...maybe. All comments and ideas put forth in this post are the expressed opinions of the author and do not represent the views of CGC as a whole or pretty much anyone else for that matter.

Just picked up these two: Crazy #3 triple cover. Love that Stupor Man cover. And this is genuine, and I got it for a lot less than that fake Thor 369 "triple"! Hulk #180 double cover. Anyone ever seen one of these before? I can't find one. In bad need of a new case and a press and clean. Will be letting CGC handle this and I'll post the results!

I didn't even notice that.

5---4---3---2---1...

It astounds me that some collectors come on here like they know it all, but don't know a Key Collector Comics screenshot on sight.

On our eBay store we specialize in rarities like double covers, factory errors, etc. We command a premium due to the rareness of our books and are willing to wait for the right collector. That said, there have been many "one-of-a-kind" items that we've picked up and were complete dogs(A CGC 9.8 of Blazing Comics #5 with the interior of Action Comics #181 immediately springs to mind) . They just sat there while CGC graded regular ol' Amazing Spider-Man 300s in any grade move and move and move again. We could publish our own books(and have) with a print run of 1. But no one would care because no market has been created for that book.

OMG! I totally missed he was in a third panel! I stand corrected, CGC, definitely his first "full" appearance! I mean Stark called him "Rhodey" after all...a complete introduction of the character---tantamount to an origin story, I'd say.

Well since we like to say a character like Quasar didn't first appear until Hulk #234, even though all he did was have a Hulk #182-like cameo at the beginning, change his name and fly off(after many adventures as Marvel Boy/Man) I would say a good example of what you suggest would be Amazing Spider-Man #238 vs #239. Yes, there is an awesome cover with his face in shadow and some shadowy figure finding Green Goblin's equipment and using some of it during the story but he does not actually suit up or call himself the Hobgoblin until the very end of the book. Yet #239 contains his first "full" appearance and battle with Spidey and is worth a fraction of #238. Another would be Jim Rhodes who had a very tiny cameo in Iron Man #118 and doesn't make a true full appearance until #121 and is on the cover of #125. Yet, most consider the first appearance of him as #118(CGC doesn't even call it a "cameo").

It easily has the best story of the five. I literally ruined my copy of Special Edition X-Men #1 when I was a kid reading it over and over.

Oh, it most definitely does. And it is more often than not subconscious(just like all those Datelines I've watched where the kids/family...even in-laws will invariably stick by a father accused of murder---if he's rich ). I own all three myself and my #181 is signed by Stan Lee but I still think if it was a rainy day and I had to sell, I'd pick the 180 to keep.

Great find! I have a #360 Triple, also CGC 9.6. Mine is 9.2, 9.4 on the outer covers though so I like yours better!

Such a nice fellow you are. Surely you can make a better argument than to call me stupid. Regardless, I think you're just looking to fight, and I'm not interested. I'm just here to discuss the topic I put forth. So you win. Congrats!

Let me clarify that I do not consider non-story ads as a true appearance. It has to be in-story. But an appearance is just that. They appear, no matter how brief, partial or whatever adjective you want to use. An appearance is an appearance. Let me reiterate this another way. If I show up to a party I am making an appearance. Even if I immediately leave. If everyone sees me, than I have made a FULL appearance. Now, if I introduce myself and tell people about me and they witness my personality, then I have made what? An introduction. Hulk #180 is Wolverine's first FULL appearance since anyone who read the book until the end SAW him. Hulk #181, we learn about him, how he acts, how he fights, etc. We have now been introduced to him. In Hulk #182, we just see him leave the party.

I think this thread has already proved that people will argue about just about anything, valid or not. And there's never been a cure-all to that since the beginning of time. Still, I feel more clear and concise definitions of what is a first appearance(first time we see a character) and what is the actual introduction(the first story in which we get to know a character) couldn't hurt.

Which is why the comic collecting definition of "full appearance" and the the actual definition of the term are not the same. I think this causes confusion with new collectors since what happens at the end of Hulk 180 is a full appearance of Wolverine by the dictionary definition of the term(as in you SEE HIM FULLY). Which is why I think "introduction" would be a better way to describe a character's first full story. But, I know I'm bashing my head against the wall on this so I'll stop...

Appearance: The act, action, or process of appearing Appear: to be or come in sight Introduction: the act or process of introducing : the state of being introduced Introduce: to cause to be acquainted Acquaint: to make familiar : to cause to know firsthand