trademarkcomics

I like both. I grew up reading when he switched back and forth between the red and blues and a non-symbiote black costume. I loved it.

The symbiote and anyone is Venom. How else could we have "Venomized" characters?

ASM #258(1st symbiote reveal)...and Web of Spider-Man #1(the first battle with the symbiote and the lead-in to Eddie Brock getting the costume) are very undervalued. Wait, that gives me an idea for another thread...nahhhhh, I think I've started enough trouble with this one!

Same guy I've been talking about. "uniquecomics" Yes, very unique.

This "triple cover" Thor #369 was his biggest seller. Some unsuspecting buyer spent $124.50 for a book the still 0 feedback seller probably spent $3 and maybe a staple nick on his finger for. If you look closely you will see the back cover doesn't line up and there is the EXACT SAME amount of dirty scuffing(probably from being in the dollar bin for a while) on the bottom of the back covers. Yeah, pretty sure the inner covers would have been spared from the scuffing. Can't want to see what kind of feedback they get.

Here is my list of the most overrated key books from the Silver Age to Copper Age. These are my opinions of course and I know there will be many who disagree. That's why I'm starting a thread so we can discuss differing opinions on the subject. I'm hoping it won't devolve into another debate about what is a first appearance and what's not...but it probably will. Mods: I looked for a thread on this subject and found nothing when I searched the term "overrated" but please close the thread if you deem it to be redundant. My Top Five list(may expand it later): 1. X-Men #94 What is it a "first" of? The first issue of the "New" X-Men. Why is it an overrated "first"? Because it has zero first appearances, and Giant-Size X-Men is not only the true first issue of the new X-Men, it's even a #1 issue! My comments: This book used to be worth more than GSX #1...let me say that again, there was a time when a book with #94 on the cover with no first appearances was actually more valuable than the first appearances of Storm, Nightcrawler and Colossus and the 2nd full appearance of some guy named Wolverine in a #1 issue. Luckily, we came to our senses awhile ago on that, but I still feel this book is way overvalued(or GSX 1 is undervalued...or both). 2. Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 What is it a "first" of? The first in-continuity appearance of the black alien costume which eventually joins with Eddie Brock to become Venom. Why is it an overrated "first"? Because it came out 8 months after the alien costume's first actual appearance(it's still listed as the first in some places). My comments: It's also described as the "origin" by CGC and while this may be the origin of Spidey putting the costume on, there is absolutely no explanation of where the costume came from. In fact, there is more revealed about the costume and the fact that it's a living symbiote in Amazing Spider-Man #258, which came out a month before and worth a fraction of Secret Wars #8! Honorable mention that connects to this: Marvel Team-Up #141 which is described by many as a "tie" with Amazing Spider-Man #252, but came out TWO WEEKS later. 3. Uncanny X-Men #266 What is it a "first" of? This is the first appearance of Gambit. Or is it? Why is it an overrated "first"? Because everyone already knows that this came out weeks after X-Men Annual #14. Which may be described as a "cameo" of Gambit, but he has lines and appearances throughout the book. He's just not the focus of the story. My comments: I know, I know. This one is brought up all the time and everyone is tired of it. But let's look at this rationally. X-Men Annual #14 came out THREE WEEKS before. And was solicited in the prior month. It's also drawn by Art Adams, while #266 was drawn by some fill-in artist name Mike Collins(where's he now?). Who would you rather Gambit be drawn by? #266 should be worth something just like Secret Wars #8 since it's the first in-continuity appearance, but the reality is what it is. X-Men Annual #14 is the first true appearance of the character. 4. Incredible Hulk #182 What is it a "first" of? This is the first appearance of Hammer and Anvil. Uh...you know those guys, right? They were huge. Why is it an overrated "first"? Because this is valuable due to a cameo of Wolverine at the beginning of the book. Giant Size X-Men #1 is known as the second appearance of Wolvie, so what does this make Hulk #182? My comments: #182 deserves some value since it's a Wolverine cameo, but this is treated like the third part of some kind of epic trilogy. Wolverine's lines in his three panels on the first page of this book are as follows: "No! You can't do this to me! My failure was only a temporary setback! I can still defeat that big brute! I can!" and "But the Hulk! What about the Hulk?" Then there's not one mention of him again. Wow. Worth hundreds of dollars to me! 5. Incredible Hulk #181 What is it a "first" of? The first cover and full in-story appearance of Wolverine. Why is it an overrated "first"? In Incredible Hulk #180 there is a command to "Mobilize Weapon X!" at the beginning of the book, and we see Wolvie in all of his glory at the end. My comments: #181 deserves to be treasured due to the entire story being devoted to Wolverine and his "introduction" on the cover(which is why it's at the bottom of this list...and this issue's notoriety and ridiculous value also helps it get on the list at all), but is this really that much different than Hobgoblin's first appearance in Amazing Spider-Man #238? Isn't ASM #239 Hobby's first "full" appearance after we only see him for one splash page at the end of #238(although there is the shadowy cover devoted to him...but are we really that superficial as collectors...wait...)? Yet #238 is overwhelmingly more valuable than #239. Either ASM #239 is way undervalued or Hulk #181 is way overvalued. Honorable mention that connects to this: Those books with ads for Hulk #181. They came out the month Hulk #181 was released. Last I checked Hulk #180 came out a month earlier. Yeah. 6. X-Men #134 What is it a "first" of? The first appearance of "Dark" Phoenix. Why is it an overrated "first"? Well, it has been well established that the Phoenix Force was up to no good from the very beginning, stealing Jean Grey's body and so forth. So, the first appearance of the Phoenix Force was years earlier, hence the events of #134/135 amounts to nothing more than a costume color change and adding the word "Dark" to her name. My comments: This book was popular back when they announced they were revisiting the Phoenix storyline in the Dark Phoenix film, but we all know how that went(the musical score is excellent however). Time to move on. 7. Incredible Hulk #234 What is it a "first" of? The first "appearance" of Quasar!!! Why is it an overrated "first"? Because Wendell Vaughn had appeared in many issues before wearing the same costume and possessing the same powers under the monikers Marvel Boy and Marvel Man. My comments: This one is hilarious. As we get closer to the release of Quantumania and a character called "Quaz"(who may or may not be based on Quasar), this book has had lots of interest. But really, it's a cameo in every sense of the word and he simply shouts "Call me Quasar!" as he flies off. Wow. Yet the next issue he appears in(Marvel Two-In-One #53) is cheap cheap cheap, when it is not only the first book truly devoted to Wendell Vaughn the character, it even has Quasar in the title(and an awesome Byrne/Sinnott cover)! 8. Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134 What is it a "first" of? The first appearance of Darkseid. Why is it an overrated "first"? While we see his face and he's called by name, his appearance is on a TV screen. My comments: I included this one due to many references to it by members of this forum. While I still consider this a first appearance, it baffles me why Forever People #1 isn't worth more than it is since we actually see him “in person”(it has been holding its value better than JO #134 of late, however). This immediately makes me think of Amazing Spider-Man #360. Which leads into the next book on our list... 9. Amazing Spider-Man #361 What is it a "first" of? The first “appearance” of Carnage. Why is it an overrated "first"? Unlike Jimmy Olsen #134's Darkseid's one-panel appearance on a monitor, in the issue before this in a page solely devoted to Carnage, we actually see half of his face, he kills someone and calls himself Carnage, yet it's worth $10 raw and really not that sought after. My comments: Jimmy Olsen #134 CGC 9.0 value: $600.00, Forever People #1 CGC 9.0 value: $350.00. Amazing Spider-Man #360 CGC 9.6 value: $60.00, #361 CGC 9.6 value: $175.00. Need I say more? 10. Marvel Collectible Classics Spider-Man #1(AKA “Amazing Spider-Man #300 Chromium”) What is it a "first" of? A “variant cover” of the first “full” appearance of Venom. Why is it an overrated "first"? This came out 10 years after Amazing Spider-Man #300 was published. My comments: It's a REPRINT. NOT a variant cover. 'Nuff said. Best option for an ASM #300 "variant" is a newsstand, that's it folks. No Canadian, no Mark Jewelers and sorry, no Chromium. 10a. Marvel Collectible Classics Spider-Man #2(AKA Spider-Man #1 Chromium”) What is it a "first" of? A “variant cover” of the first issue of Spider-Man by Todd McFarlane. Why is it an overrated "first"? This came out 8 years after Spider-Man #1 was published. My comments: As mentioned above, this is a REPRINT. NOT a variant cover. Go get the Platinum or Gold UPC variant covers over this travesty of comic book collecting.

I love ads where the seller holds the comic book and you can see the spine creases they are making as they are bending it. Or better yet they get their butter-faced girlfriend to hold it to get more clicks.

Glad to have been of help. My wife is still kicking me in the shins over it. But, what I would love to happen is for this to become so much of a standard that just staple placement will prove a book is an authentic insert copy and you won't need to have the book slabbed for ultimate proof(sorry, CGC).

Bump. I found another on MCS. I broached the subject on CBCS forums and most think it's probably a label error. If evil CBCS submitters start taking advantage of some crazy loophole in CBCS's flawed submission system, then this could potentially drive the prices down on double covers, since there would be a major influx of faux doubles into the market causing them to not seem so rare after all.

Here's an odd duck. A CBCS graded 9.8 "Double Cover", but there are no grades for each cover and the grader notes are empty...other than the "pedigree", which I know from submitting myself is put there by the submitter, NOT the grader. I think this is a label error or something and don't think this is a legit double cover...do you? Grader notes: Thor #337 Marvel 11 1983 Variant: Direct Edition Pedigree: Double Cover 9.8 Certified White Signees: Notes: Usual double cover CBCS label: Grader notes on this copy: Firestorm #82 DC 2 1989 Variant: Direct Edition Pedigree: Double Cover 9.6 Certified White Signees: 1st cover 9.2, interior cover 9.6 Notes: 1st cover few spine stress breaks color, tiny tear top staple, tiny chip bottom spine tiny corner & edge wear to cover breaks color front cover interior cover couple spine stress barely breaks color WEIRD.

Still throwing them up(as in vomiting). Obviously, he got these out of the dollar bin at his local comic store then took an afternoon to put them together. A "quadruple cover". Someone needs to tell him that the more covers you put on a comic, the more fake it's gonna look. You see, when an extra cover is placed on the comic, it gets trimmed with the rest of it. Which would preclude the "feathered" look to the covers seen in his excellent pictures.

Crazy that they're all 9.8. Surely when you get that deep from a 9.8, one would end up 9.9+.

Doesn't make it any less true. I think it shows how rushed they were to meet the deadline for this "tentpole" event book.

More fraud being perpetrated on eBay. 0 feedback seller just out on a bunch of homemade turkeys. The Turok #1 is LAUGHABLE. I love how he takes multiple pictures to prove how fake these are. Yeah, that doesn't line up. Thrashed spine. I have no words...

"Supposing is good. But finding out is better." -Mark Twain

The more the value increases for insert copies, the more likely unsavory scoundrels will marry the inserts in. Good thing married inserts are pretty easy to spot(extra staple holes, misaligned trimming).

I'd say that's true for most issues, but I think there might be rare exceptions(like I heard that ASM #178 could have both the stiff cardboard inserts as well as the glossy ones).

The NM 98 brings up a question: Lots of star stamps and received stamps but I have never seen a date stamp on a Mark Jewelers insert copy. Did that never happen?

Seller also has a New Mutants 98 "Mark Jewelers". (look at the insert hanging out, lol) Terrible.

Wow! It's Amazing Spider-Man #300 with a Mark Jewelers insert! Only $2000! https://www.ebay.com/itm/115673119885?hash=item1aeea7bc8d:g:KcsAAOSwpcljwr4V&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsLjyjNmCb%2Fk7c00zBTLl6PGzkZd0bO3OCEzHHOkrnh3UXW5%2F7Tu6RMs%2FwrhGUmV2gn7%2BzcbDz25PAk0q5ZM1bfGDVVWQVTEI%2Bn5tCBdu4ndkW0218lqnMkofXXQ%2B0kZNRtPptS1Hr85wylW%2B0BSTn6NzQA0Re0N1R3CXHEwYKvnNgSQeL2WUpF3FzXyTJzN4T42yMsCbFpfeHRReZmPjIcAiUI6NzozPlL6D6lBDmMQh|tkp%3ABk9SR6b_3JS2YQ (Look closely near the staples and the lower right edge of the insert hanging out in the first pic...)

Then they would also not understand why a 1/25 variant cover might fetch more than the regular copy, since "technically" they were not present on all copies. Not everyone understands the appeal of rarity. But these same people were probably paying $20 for a roll of toilet paper in 2020. If something is super rare, a small percentage of buyers will be enough to drive the price up(like how a small percentage bought up all the toilet paper in 2020 making tp rare and valuable). In fact, in an auction if all you get are two bidders that can be enough to drive a price way higher than going market value. And you cannot just put the inserts into regular copies without it being very obvious as I have proven earlier in this thread. So, the fact that they only reside in a very small portion of a particular issue's print run automatically makes the copies with the inserts more valuable regardless of any cultural impact they may have or even how large the percentage of potential buyers would be interested. Why else would an Amazing Spider-Man #252 CGC 9.0 Mark Jewelers go for nearly $600 in November while regular 9.0s went for an average of $200 in the same time period? Did that buyer spend $600 only for the American culture of jewelry inserts? Or possibly because there was no cheaper #252 CGC MJ insert copy available(limited availability=rarity)? Right now they run from $600 for a 8.0 to $4000 for a 9.6--while regular copies go $200-500 for the same grade range. There are only 5 CGC ASM 252 MJIs in any grade(one is a 9.6), while there are MORE THAN 60 regular CGC 9.6s.

True. I could produce a comic with a one issue print run and even though it's one-of-a-kind it would not be worth the paper and ink I used to print it because there would be zero market for it. But as Marvel's flagship title, there will always be a market for Amazing Spider-Man. And if I had to choose between a CGC 9.8 copy of #175 with a mark jeweler insert or without, the choice to me is clear.

My two cents: For me, it has little to do with what's on the inserts. It has way more to do with the rarity of the inserts. So when Mark Warren states that if it was a Hostess insert he could see the value I think he's missing the point. There are three major reasons comics have value: Content(1st appearances, seminal events, etc), condition(no need to explain on this site) and rareness(simple supply vs demand). Just as with errors like double covers, mis-coloring, etc, I collect insert copies simply because they are harder to find(especially in high grade) than non-insert copies. It's simple math.

A few recent pick ups... This one is a classic to me! Original Cap vs 50s Cap! "Two Into One Won't Go!" My first Spidey Super Stories double, I also have a Spectacular, all I need is Marvel Team Up. This one always reminds me of "How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way"! My 30th ASM double!

If you're talking about the GL #87, it may be a big windfall for the seller, but it should have sold for more. There are 36 9.8s out there but probably only ONE double cover. A regular 9.8 sold for just over $14.5k in November...this should have went for $20-25K.