trademarkcomics

Those in-house ads were debunked a long time ago. They came out after #180. Regardless, only in-story appearances should count. Not everyone buys preview mags(I know I didn't when I was a kid, still rarely do...I like to be surprised), or even looks at the ads while they read a comic. Was Destro's first appearance in one of those tv commercials they had in the 80s for the comic? We have to draw the line somewhere.

Other "glimpses" according to your definition... Glimpses at a moment in time, sure. But these are images burned into our minds, not a momentary glimpse at the sun or moon that while may make an impact in the moment, get lost in our minds as abstract memories. Readers of ASM #299 & Hulk #180 had 4-5 weeks to look and relook, examine and reexamine these "glimpses":

"Glimpse" would be fine for Eddie Brock's arm in ASM #298, but I wouldn't consider glimpse being an adequate description of the panel with him in all his glory at the end of #299 or Wolverine at the end of #180. One could obsess over what they look like they could a photograph. I would not consider a full body picture of someone as a "glimpse" of them. You glimpse the sun as it sets, or the moon as a break in the cloud passes by.

Whether you liked his artwork or not, you didn't just read a Todd McFarlane drawn comic. And the words seemed somehow secondary to the goings on.

Or Spider-Man as drawn by Todd McFarlane...

Thank you for sharing. I had the same exact experience with ASM #237-238. At the end of #237* there's a small preview of the next issue on the letters page with the cover of #238(see below). Hobgoblin is colored in green goblin colors(maybe they decided to change his coloring at the last minute?). I didn't even know who Green Goblin was(My first issue was #235) but that cover was so cool to a ten year old boy that I waited in bated breath for a month then sprinted to the grocery store on comic book day for #238 and it did not disappoint. You do bring up a good point. #181 is the "first Wolverine story". Because even though #238 doesn't have Hobgoblin in costume until the very end, there is no doubt it's the first Hobgoblin story. If we simply changed the terminology to that instead of the flawed appearance thing, books like #180, X-Men Annual #14(since Gambit is not the focus of the story) or even Jimmy Olsen #134 could be valued for being the characters' first appearances, while we should definitely value a character's first story more. *Still, I value that first look at Hobby so much, I made sure to find a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #237 newsstand(since that's what I collected from the local grocery store) of it. So, I would think you would have a nice copy of 180 in your collection, even if you value 181 more.

And I have zero problem with this. I don't think Hulk 180 should have the highest value of the two, I just think it does a disservice to those attempting to figure out which they'd rather have to say(or even imply) it's not Wolverine's first appearance. 181 is a much more appealing book with that classic cover and the first comic to have Wolverine action from start to finish, but it is not the first time he was seen. Readers back then had 28 days to absorb the Wolverine name, the fact that he had claws on his hands and was obviously a total badass. There were probably already conversations in those 4 weeks about whether Wolverine could beat Spider-Man or Captain America. And his appearance was in-story, not some ad for the next issue. So, people can speculate on Marvel's motives behind his appearance at the end of Hulk #180 but they cannot argue that he didn't make an appearance. Spidey's role in Civil War was relatively minor, but one could still argue it's the best appearance he's made so far(it at least might have had the most impact on viewers). I'd love to hear from those who were kids and bought #180 back in the day. What would they say about it and how much of an impact it made on them. I know Hobgoblin's appearance at the end of ASM #238 made a ridiculously huge impact on me.

New pickup: Selling my old CGC 9.2 because I'm pretty sure signed insert copies are more rare, regardless of grade.

New Pickup: This one takes me back because it's the one that most reminds me of those commercials in the 80s for the comics(yep, I'm that old). This was months before the cartoon series so it's funny to hear Destro's voice sound more like Cobra Commander's in the series.

Second and later printings are not necessarily considered "reprints"(comic book terminology, not in actuality since anything reprinted after original publication date is reprinted). And dealer incentive books now are considered variants. How do we know when the platinum edition was actually printed?

The Platinum edition came out after as a dealer incentive. The Gold was a 2nd printing. At least they came out in the same timeframe and as such, I would consider them variants(as they would be if the same thing occurred today). The chromium editions came out later than most reprints did in the old days and as with Marvel Tales, Marvel's Greatest Comics and the similarly titled Marvel Collectors Item Classics, they don't even share the same title and issue(Marvel Collectible Classics: Spider-Man #2). The only difference between these and the old reprint titles is that gimmick cover and a limited print run. They should be worth something, just not as much as the original limited run gimmicky cover variants like the Gold UPC or Platinum.

I've been doing this for 30+ years. I know comic book terminology. I'm saying it was flawed from moment one, and needs to be updated. That's how society evolves, by fixing flaws and progressing. You may be initiated into the flawed terminology, but those who enter into into this grand pursuit green are not and they are the ones who are confused and/or misled by it(not me or you). To those who don't know comic book terminology: 1st appearance= First time we see a character. 1st appearance in Cameo= A part of the character is seen or perhaps behind the scenes(or a head on a tv screen). 1st Full Appearance = First time a character is seen in full. And make no mistake, the industry needs new collectors to keep it going. I know if I were new and paid $10,000 for Hulk #181, I'd be pretty mad and/or turned off on comic collecting if I were to find out he actually made his first full appearance(by Webster's definition, not by "comic book terminology") the issue before. Oh and wait, there's more! There was also a prototype that "predates" both appearances in Foom #2! So why did I just spend the 10k it took me forever to save for his third appearance(his perception, not yours or mine since we know better)??? Now, if the terminology is changed and we started to value a character's "introductory issue" more than when he's first seen that would fix it, right? Disclaimer: I know this is going nowhere. This is like trying to tell the NFL that concussions would be eliminated if we took hitting out of the game entirely. It's never going to happen. I'm just trying to demonstrate how flawed the appearance terminology is.

MCS finally took this down. The Thor #337 CBCS 9.8 sold for $900 or so. About the same as a CGC 9.6 double went for in June so I'm certain the incomplete label had at least a slight effect on what the final price ended up. Hopefully for the seller the winning bidder doesn't send it to be regraded by CGC only to find out it was a CBCS label error and not really a double cover.

Update on that uniquecomics character selling fake doubles. They finally got one feedback---a positive. I looked at the ad and it was for a supposed double cover of the DC New 52 FCBD Preview. There are corner creases on both the front and back of the INNER cover and the outer cover is crease free! Inner covers are basically never in worse shape than the outer cover unless it's one where the inner cover gets hung up on the binding machine and a corner near the spine gets torn off. And shockingly the covers don't line up and are not flush against each other. How anyone could fall for these is beyond me. Just wait until they send it to CGC and... WHOOOOOAA NELLY!

George. Perez.

Some additions to my list. A few came from feedback in this thread so I thank all who contributed! 6. X-Men #134 What is it a "first" of? The first appearance of "Dark" Phoenix. Why is it an overrated "first"? Well, it has been well established that the Phoenix Force was up to no good from the very beginning, stealing Jean Grey's body and so forth. So, the first appearance of the Phoenix Force was years earlier, hence the events of #134/135 amounts to nothing more than a costume color change and adding the word "Dark" to her name. My comments: This book was popular back when they announced they were revisiting the Phoenix storyline in the Dark Phoenix film, but we all know how that went(the musical score is excellent however). Time to move on. 7. Incredible Hulk #234 What is it a "first" of? The first "appearance" of Quasar!!! Why is it an overrated "first"? Because Wendell Vaughn had appeared in many issues before wearing the same costume and possessing the same powers under the monikers Marvel Boy and Marvel Man. My comments: This one is hilarious. As we get closer to the release of Quantumania and a character called "Quaz"(who may or may not be based on Quasar), this book has had lots of interest. But really, it's a cameo in every sense of the word and he simply shouts "Call me Quasar!" as he flies off. Wow. Yet the next issue he appears in(Marvel Two-In-One #53) is cheap cheap cheap, when it is not only the first book truly devoted to Wendell Vaughn the character, it even has Quasar in the title(and an awesome Byrne/Sinnott cover)! 8. Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134 What is it a "first" of? The first appearance of Darkseid. Why is it an overrated "first"? While we see his face and he's called by name, his appearance is on a TV screen. My comments: I included this one due to many references to it by members of this forum. While I still consider this a first appearance, it baffles me why Forever People #1 isn't worth more than it is since we actually see him “in person”(it has been holding its value better than JO #134 of late, however). This immediately makes me think of Amazing Spider-Man #360. Which leads into the next book on our list... 9. Amazing Spider-Man #361 What is it a "first" of? The first “appearance” of Carnage. Why is it an overrated "first"? Unlike Jimmy Olsen #134's Darkseid's one-panel appearance on a monitor, in the issue before this in a page solely devoted to Carnage, we actually see half of his face, he kills someone and calls himself Carnage, yet it's worth $10 raw and really not that sought after. My comments: Jimmy Olsen #134 CGC 9.0 value: $600.00, Forever People #1 CGC 9.0 value: $350.00. Amazing Spider-Man #360 CGC 9.6 value: $60.00, #361 CGC 9.6 value: $175.00. Need I say more? 10. Marvel Collectible Classics Spider-Man #1(AKA “Amazing Spider-Man #300 Chromium”) What is it a "first" of? A “variant cover” of the first “full” appearance of Venom. Why is it an overrated "first"? This came out 10 years after Amazing Spider-Man #300 was published. My comments: It's a REPRINT. NOT a variant cover. 'Nuff said. Best option for an ASM #300 "variant" is a newsstand, that's it folks. No Canadian, no Mark Jewelers and sorry, no Chromium. 10a. Marvel Collectible Classics Spider-Man #2(AKA Spider-Man #1 Chromium”) What is it a "first" of? A “variant cover” of the first issue of Spider-Man by Todd McFarlane. Why is it an overrated "first"? This came out 8 years after Spider-Man #1 was published. My comments: As mentioned above, this is a REPRINT. NOT a variant cover. Go get the Platinum or Gold UPC variant covers over this travesty of comic book collecting.

Many characters start out as lame("vacuous") retreads but are fleshed out and made more original by later writers. Need I mention this guy? No matter how derivative the Rob Liefeld Deadpool was(Deathstroke, Wolverine and Spider-Man mashup), New Mutants #98 will always be worth way more than Deadpool #1 by Joe Kelly.

Oh, Him/Warlock is a good one... Fantastic Four #66: What occurs? This issue is basically a setup issue, a prologue to the story of Him. CGC 6.0 Value: $175-200 CGC 9.0 Value: $800-$1000 Fantastic Four #67: What occurs? We see Him in the Cocoon, he has a few lines in the cocoon and then he emerges("is born") on the final page. More than a cameo since the story is devoted to him, but not quite a full introduction to the character, as in we don't see much of his powers and learn very little about his character. But we do see him fully in two panels. CGC 6.0 Value: $250-325 CGC 9.0 Value: $1000-1400 Thor #164: What occurs? Last panel cameo of Him breaking out of the Cocoon. Since we've already seen this it's not a first anything. CGC 6.0 Value: $50-60 CGC 9.0 Value: $175-225 Thor #165: What occurs? First Him in action and we learn a little more about him and his powers. Most consider this his first "full" appearance, but we've already been somewhat introduced to him, so really it's just his first activity. But it's with Thor! And an awesome introductory cover! The all black cover makes high grade copies harder to find. CGC 6.0 Value: $350-450 CGC 9.0 Value: $2000-2500 Thor #166: What occurs? First real battle. And another great cover! CGC 6.0 Value: $90-100 CGC 9.0 Value: $325-400 Marvel Premiere #1: What occurs? Him once again emerges from a cocoon with a new costume, acquires the Soul Gem, and his name is changed to Warlock. CGC 6.0 Value: $150-250 CGC 9.0 Value: $600-800

And my final word on this... But seriously, I'm choosing to concentrate on getting the thread back on track. So I'm not responding to anything personal from anyone from now on.

I'm trying not to, I promise I am. I've tried to ignore him but he attacks every one of my posts. I'm not here just to debate. I like differing opinions, but I don't like personal attacks(on me or anyone else for that matter). I just go...

I obviously agree, so I don't get why he brought Doomsday up*... *Other than he's just looking to make trouble...again.

If a character is described sufficiently, I don't need to see them with my eyes to get a picture of what they look like. Hence they appear...in my mind. There are obviously exceptions to any rule. Nice. Ah. So you don't really care about what people here care about. It's downright shocking you don't along with anyone.

Comics have been and always shall be predominately a visual medium just like TV and movies. We're not talking about a novel or a radio program. So the art may well be a "part" but it's easily 50% of the experience, but probably more. And even in novel or radio programs, if the character is simply described(and preferably named), then they have made an appearance in the story. EDIT: And comic book collecting is superficial by default. If you think collecting should be deeper than that, then what are you doing on a forum of a site that champions superficiality(Grading the beauty of a comic book)?

Are you kidding? I wouldn't take less than $999.99 for that(and pretty much anything else we sell). Of course, I could be like StockDoc and charge $10,000 for it...