sfilosa

And who took that lousy picture. I do like the frame though!!!! Wait, that frame is sitting in my closet with no art in it.

I have several Boris pieces, this one at his peak time (in my opinion). A hero, a villain, a monster and a damsel in distress. What more can you ask for! I mentioned in another forum, how a lot of pieces from a certain artist work hit the market at one time (like a collector dumps 20-30 piece all at once). Between 2005-2007, it seemed like Heritage had 3-4 pieces of his every auction (and some in the illustration auctions). Now, if they have two or three pieces a year, that good (and that doesn't mean they are any good).

I have to admit, I had no idea who Tradd Moore was. I mostly collector older art, but there are a few exceptions. This would have been one of them. His art is pretty special, but when I look at SSB, my mind say "Steranko". Does anyone else see that?

Somewhat going along with this line of comments, I have one more "guide" in buying art. It seems to me that every now and then, a large amount of work, usually by one artist becomes available. Since maybe every Heritage Auction or dealer website will have a lot of this art (I am not talking new art just created), it seems like there is an over supply at the time. If this is an artist that you really like (or even somewhat interested in), buy now the best pieces even though it will seem like there will be time to buy later (e.g. maybe a better piece will be offered in the next auction). Obviously this happens when an estate sells the art, but also when a large collector sells. At some point, all the art will be in many different collector's hands, the value will probably not increase for awhile (since there was a large supply dumped on the market) and what really happens is that very little of that art will come back to the market anytime soon. It's almost like a complete story is being broken up and there are 20-30 pages offered over a few months. If you really want a page, buy now.

If you are a new collector, you are probably not going to buy "grail pieces". To keep a hobby interesting, and in this case, as a collector, you are going to want to buy enough pieces to feel like a "collector". I have thought about this a lot (and not because of this post), but if I was starting over and didn't have tons of funds to spend, my course of action would be. 1) Sign up for Comic Art Fan and become a premium member at some point. 2) Research all the dealers that rep for new artist. Search everyone of their sites and make a list of "artist" that you like their style. Obviously, you would like to see that they draw characters or the themes that you are interested in. 3) If you see a page from an artist that you like, if it is not too expensive (a few hundreds or less), buy it. Get your feet wet with those artist. 4) Also, bid in auctions (Heritage, ComicLink, eBay, etc.) for pieces by those artist. Look at Heritage auction archives for past prices. Realize that a lot of new art does not sell at auctions yet (more on that in a minute). 5) After a while, you will be constantly looking for pieces by these artist when they first are available (CAF can send you emails daily when your specific artist have new art for sale). 6) Build a collection (10-30 pieces). At this stage, if you see a panel piece at $200 that you really like and another at $100 that you kind of like, buy the $200 piece. Make sure that you are buying pieces that you really like and don't sweat paying $50-100 more for the better piece (once again, more on this later). 7) At some point as you have built a nice collection, then gravitate to older art (could be 5 years old or 50 years old), that you really like, more in demand from other collectors and most likely more expensive. This is when you could start to buy grail pieces. The reason I suggest this approach is: * Unless you have a job that is going to give you $20k or more a year in disposable income for your hobby, you are going to need to buy some art cheaper and hope it increases in value over several years so you can take the profits and package that into more expensive art. Your ability to buy pieces for $100-300, and then hopefully sell / trade them for $200-600 in three or four years is a lot greater than you finding a $5,000 piece at an auction that you can sell for $10,000-$15,000 a few years later. Reason, way more bidders, way more smart collectors that would understand that the piece is a bargain and clearly there is already a lot of demand for that artist/piece. * My major regret is not the fact that I didn't buying more art 20 years ago (everyone, even successful collectors/dealer could regret that), but seeing art (or particular artist) that had newer pieces for sale just in the past few years at very reasonable prices that I didn't even know about. I should have known about them if I just had done my research. And what hurts worse, is it is very hard to buy these pieces from other collectors because the price might have gone up (maybe doubled or tripled) but in real dollars it's not enough "profit" for the person who bought it for $200 to want to sell for $400 or $500 (especially if it is a really nice piece). * I said, that with newer art buy the best pieces (the one you like the best and don't worry so much about the extra cost). That true with older art, but the real truth is that while everyone would love to buy older covers and splash pages, the competition for these has made the prices very unaffordable. Most of the people buying these have either a lot of money (multimillionaires) and/or have been collecting so long that they really are playing with house money. By that I mean, they bought so much art 20-30 years ago that their collection is worth so much that even if they overspend on a piece they really want, they know they can sell a few pieces they bought a long time ago. They don't have to put fresh money into their acquisitions. These are my thoughts and I'm sure others have a different opinion.

Totally agree with you on finding an artist's best work (though obviously that is subjective and of course costs has to be factored in), and striving to add that piece to your collection. I have wanted a Jim Starlin piece from the 70's from either Captain Marvel or Warlock / Strange Tales for many years. Haven't got one yet, but plenty of early Iron-Man art has been available at reasonable (also subjective) prices. That said, Starlin's style was not quite formed, in my opinion at the time, so I don't buy those as they don't fully represent why I want a Starlin piece. My example of the two FF covers was more to represent that it seems that collectors sometimes just want a "big picture" of a character and are not looking at context/imagination/creativity, etc. of the art. I own a lot of Joe Jusko work, several covers, and pages from a book that Joe has said on many occasions is the work he is most proud of. See my CAF gallery for examples if needed. That said, of all the work I own, I have never paid as much for one piece as this sold for in a Heritage Auction awhile back. And to add to this, every piece of art I own of his is "significantly bigger" than this. It's a fine piece of art, but it feels that someone (and when I mean someone, remember these are in auctions so in theory at least two collectors wanted this pretty badly), just want a big picture of a character, pretty much doing nothing interesting. I'm probably in the minority, but I want more out of art than just a portrait of a character. That's why I collect sequential art in the first place.

The answer is simple for me. I want "something actually happening in the art". I want the picture to tell a story (cover, splash or panel, I don't care). I'll give you an example (I don't own either one of these covers). Two FF covers, first is Pollard (1979) the second is Sienkiewicz (1980). Both sold in the past three months on Heritage. The first sold for $38k+ and the second $26k+. The first cover seems "iconic", but basically it is an image of Galactus and head shots of the FF. Nothing is really happening at all. The second cover (which sold for over 25% less ), has a ton of action. Love this cover. Forget if I even read the comic book. I could look at that and make my own story up. Once again, the Galactus cover has a big image of him. But take away some of the background, and the cover really just looks like a very nice commission sketch (Ok, much more detailed). But nothing is happening, no story and no action. Maybe it looks good as a large poster, but I'm not going to stare at it for a long time and see different things. On the Sienkiewicz cover, I could probably look at that multiple times and keep seeing something interesting. Having the character big is nice, but to me, having a lot going on is much better. If I just want big images of a character, I should just collect convention sketches or get portrait commissions. So far, I have none in my collection. Not interested.

Agreed. Every time I get a twice-up page, it is just floors me on the size. About two months ago I purchased an EC complete story (first EC art though I want some for many years). It is even bigger than twice-up and it was like "holy cr*p". My first thought was, I HAVE to get more of these! And I have lots of paintings, so I am use to having bigger than standard art, but when they are large and Black & White (inked art), love the large size.

There are definitely a few Harvey covers I wish I had bought over the past few months. I collected some of the comics many years ago and the covers are going for $5-6k (and some are pretty interesting). Challenge is that the prices haven't really gone up much over the past few years (maybe because of decent supply), so never felt to need to get one now. Need to find just one that I really, really like and add that to my collection.

I saw that and I have seen that comic issue goes for a lot. What is the relevance to that issue?

I'm on CAF under Steven Filosa (not very creative). No movie posters. Mostly Boris Vallejo, Joe Jusko, Lucio Parrillo, Sanjulian, Enric, etc. Standard book/comic book covers. * Painted art is framed in my living room and tv room. * Colored art is framed in the our bedroom. * Black and While art is framed in my office. Wife doesn't really like the Black and White art which is why all colored art is where she can see it. Not that she really likes it that much either.

I thought that was her pinkie for a long time, but it is the back of her foot. Still looks really weird. And like I said, he actually outline each finger. Also like that arm was a replacement stat.

It sold for around $4k. If the arm/hand looked normal, I would have bid at least $6k (probably more). Instead, I just wouldn't want it in my collection. I'm afraid the pig hands might spread like fungus to my other art.

I'm assuming I'm looking at the correct CAF gallery of yours. You have a great collection (very envious). But I did take note that you have a Barry Windsor Smith piece and a Frazetta piece (though both are for sale). While I haven't looked at your whole gallery, I would guess you paid a lot more for these pieces than many other pieces in your collection. And especially the BWS piece, I think the only context to that piece is Artist and Visual Content. It's not from a story. There can be many reasons to want to collect a certain piece. I grew up reading the Charlie Brown strip in the newspaper everyday. The art does nothing for me, hence I wouldn't pay $50 for a page (other than I know that would be a great investment if I could buy it for $50). I have a lot of cover paintings to books (paperback or comic) I have never read (nor will ever read). I love the art, so I pay $1,000's to own them. I don't think that makes me an "unexperienced collector". It's all good as you always make a lot of points to consider (and that's what these forums are about).

#1 for sure. I love Jay Anacleto's work in this title. I only own one cover, but would love to own three or four more (if you have one, please sell it to me). That said, this cover has come up twice on ComicLink in recent years and the price is low, but I can't unsee her right arm/fingers. It just looks wrong. Her arms bend awkwardly, and for some reason Jay thickly "outlined" the fingers compared to the rest of her. Her foot in the background looks more like a big finger. I have passed twice as I know that is all that I would see, not the rest of the cover.

Thanks for the kind words. Just to be clear to everyone, I don't have unlimited money by any means. And unlike a lot of long time collectors, I'm not playing with house money (e.g. bought art 20 years ago for a fraction of today's prices). In terms of the specific piece, I "really, really" wanted one of the two pages for sale. I literally look at Heritage Signature Auction pages, once if not multiple times a day as soon as they show the previews. Therefore, I stared at these pieces for at least two months every day. If everyday I still am interested and the day of the auction, I'm still really interested, I then know this is a piece I need to make a real run at. That doesn't happen very often. In this case, I made a run at the page before (which is really nice), but stopped when it was over $10k with the idea that I would make a run at the piece I obtained. When the other piece went for $12k, I expected this piece to go for $14-16k, but I was already "committed" to it. I don't think I would have gone any higher (but that I don't know). I collect a lot more "paintings" then most on this board (it seems), so there are very few comic pages that make me say "you need to get this". I think the last one I felt that way was two years ago when I picked up a X-Men Steranko page. Most of the time, even if I really like a piece of comic art, especially being in an auction, I kind of convince myself another "similar" piece will come along again sooner or later, so I usually don't get those pages. Lastly, twice-up art (and of course with this page) just makes a great page TWICE AS NICE!

Not sure I agree with all your statements (but hey, we all collect different things). The Spider-Man page, at least on Heritage, is Gene Colan's highest selling panel piece in a DD book (there is an awesome TOS page that sold for more a few years ago). Even if I hadn't purchased it, the underbidder would have and it still would have been the highest selling panel piece in a DD book. There were also a lot of bidders, a lot of people (including myself) weren't sure what it would sell for. Since I had the frame of reference of the TOS page that I really wanted and it sold for way more than double I thought it would at the time, I felt pretty sure the Spidey page was going to have a lot of action. Which leads to your other comment that the Frank Miller cover with Dr. Strange sold for a lot less than another collector would have thought it would. Isn't that more a function of Doctor Strange. An excellent cover by Gene Colan (Dr. Strange #14) only sold for $26k in the same auction. And Gene Colan is associated with Doctor Strange. And while Frank Brunner Dr. Strange covers go for double, that's because if you like Brunner's art, then you are going to buy Dr. Strange because he didn't do many other many stream titles. In terms of you being ruthless about waiting for the right piece, that's a great strategy that works well for you. I pretty much feel the same way. Other collectors might feel that it's worth getting an average piece now, with the idea that at some point they might find a more desirable piece. If that wasn't the case, 90% of all art would have no demand, and every comic book collector would wait until they could get a 9.4 (or higher) copy of a book. Instead low grade copies, especially of Keys have no problem selling. And panel pieces with characters not in their suit still have demand (much less, but still some). Once again, love to here different thoughts on all topics so it's all good.

Thanks to everyone that posted. Great insight all around. And the consensus is....there is no consensus. And that's what makes collecting so interesting. If we were all collecting the same art, only the people with the most amount of money would have the "prize/grail art". A couple of quick thoughts. POINT ONE: It was interesting to hear that some collectors didn't like the interior page because it was either drawn by Colan or in a DD book (with no DD in any panels). I could clearly understand if Colan is not an artist you collect but I collect in this order (which obviously others do not). Forget cost/money or historical significance in this equation. 1) Artist 2) Character(s) 3) Visual content of the art In other words, I like Neal Adams (1) but I'm never going to buy a Ben Casey strip page he did because I couldn't care less about the character (2). I would also pass on Green Lantern/Green Arrow page if they were just talking and nothing happened interesting on the page (3). I might buy a Red Sonja (2) painting or artwork by an artist I don't know, if I think it is well/uniquely drawn (3). I skipped (1), but because (2) and (3) interest me, I might have just found another Artist (1) I like (obviously I did if I bought the art). What I don't collect would be a specific TITLE. Unless I was trying to put a complete book back together, I'm not sure why I care what title it is in, unless I thought from an investment standpoint it would matter. That's an entirely different issue and gets back to the money thing (which I'm ignoring in this equation). Said differently, I now realize that some collectors might rather have a Spider-Man page that is rather bland because it is in ASM, than have an excellent page (which is subjective) in another title (assuming similar vintage). I WOULD NOT. To me the art should stand on it's own. POINT TWO: It didn't seem to me that anyone but myself seemed to care that the Title/Wording/Stat took up a lot of space on the splash page. While I can see the intrigue of having the STAT, I would actually bet that a lot of people would not want to collect or at least pay as much, if the top third of the art was just blank space. Then again, I don't buy many first page splashes or covers for that reason. But I also know I'm in the minority on that one. Once again, thanks to everyone for the enjoyable discussion.

I'm more of a Silver-Age/Bronze-Age collector but I did read The Killing Joke 25 years ago so I understand it's significance. I think the one thing that the Comic Art Live group failed to mention, and which is why I think these pages go for a boat load of money is....... There is only one book! And there are only 50 pages in the book. And the people buying these (unless it is for investment) are probably more partial to the story and it's significance then just the quality of the art. Regardless if some one thinks the art is the best or just average, there is a very small selection of choices to obtain. This is a question of supply and demand, and the supply on KJ is very, very small. While I would prefer a Steve Ditko Spider-Man page, there are several hundred out there (not all are that good) and only 50 KJ pages. If I decided (I wouldn't), that I would like one of each, I would buy the KJ page first.

I actually wonder if the internet will eventually make "less" collectors than more. While it is much easier to collect because of the internet, some of the thrill (treasure hunt) is missing. I stopped collecting comic books, not because CGC graded them, but because they were graded and there are so many auctions/dealers, almost every book is just a commodity. If you have the right amount of money, you can sit in your house, never even talk to a person (just click and win) and amass a huge, high grade collection. And then, sell it all and figure out what else you would like to collect. Art is one of kind, so that stops the "commodity" concept. But my real point is "collectors" in general, not what they will specifically collect.

As I posted before, that is why I like auctions. * No rush to make an impulse decision * Even if you end up paying more (maybe a lot more) than you want or expected the piece to go for, at least you know another collector wanted it for just a shade less than you paid for it (at least on that day). * If it ends up being a piece that you realize you can't live without, you can just pay more money until you win, or realize that you can live without it at that price. I think you will be glad you passed. Seems like you got caught up in the heat of the moment. Can happen to all of us.

Maybe a little off topic, regardless if one thinks it is a great piece or not, price is also a huge factor. If the piece was for sale for $100, the topic would not have been discussed (you would have bought it). First - A piece must be desired by you Second - It must be in a price range you can afford Third - Which most people would not necessarily think about, the piece needs to have some "demand/desire" from others. I say that because ultimately, there are millions of pieces of "art" out in the world, and a number of pieces that I find interesting. That said, if it my neighbor draws a great piece of art and wants to sell it to me for $50, I still probably wouldn't buy it, as there is no demand for it. If that wasn't the case, all of us would have the cheapest pieces of art we could "hoard", until we had no room for more. But adding the "collector" factor, we want something that is demanded/desired by other also. The price of this piece does seem a bit high. If you had unlimited dollars, sure buy it. But based on what you said, it's a pass. And if you did have unlimited dollars, you would probably by an original Frank Miller page, and you wouldn't "desire" this as much!

I don't even understand the description of the piece. Steve was commissioned to redo a page and got a little carried away and the final page wasn't able to be used...oops! Used for what, if it is a commission? The fact that you are wowed by it is great (might not be every ones cup of tea). That said, to pay a lot more than you feel comfortable with for a redo of another artist page as a commission doesn't "feel" like the best use of funds for your collecting habits. I could see if you wanted a particular artist to do a commission based on what you wanted, but this is just a "modified recreation", not really even a commission. If the piece in question was well in your budget, fine, but the fact that you asked, makes me think you could regret this in the future. Good luck on your decision.

Dilemma: I would probably advise passing on this for the following reasons: * Commission piece. It's not like you know for a fact that you are buying something at a great bargain (with a history of sales). Plus, the artist could draw another piece(s) that are similar in the future. * Spending way more than usual. Will hinder your ability to buy other art in the future that you might be "wowed" by. * Very important is that you have not had enough time to process. You are "wowed" by it now (and probably will be in the future). But this is why I buy 90% of my art at auction. I see the art for weeks if not months in advance. Some art make me want it more and more. Most, I lose a little bit of interest in over time (less "wowed" by them). Just my thoughts. Please keep us posted on the piece, even if you don't buy it. Get a picture from the website so that you can post it on the board either way.

I haven't posted on these boards in over a decade as I no longer collect comics. That said, about five years ago, I got very heavy into collecting OA. I purchased a pretty expensive interior page in a Heritage Auction a few months ago and recently found this chat board. I am actively on CAF but decided to start a post here. It's basically a "Would you rather have this or that". When I purchased the piece from Heritage, there were several members who said they really wanted the piece but for the price, you could probably have bought a splash or a cover. I don't think you could get a cover anywhere close to the price that is from the same time frame and artist but here is a "would you rather". Three pieces: All pages are by Gene Colan, sold for around $19k+ in the last two years, from 1967/1968 and are twice-up. First piece is a pin-up (basically an interior splash) Second is a splash Third (the piece I bought) is a Spider-Man crossover in DD #27 My thoughts: *Pin-up is nice but there is really no action. Big (not entirely interesting) picture of DD's face and about 20% of the page is a picture of a hand on a book. It you made a cross, you could also make this a four panel page, without a lot of "content". *Splash is actually pretty good (nice DD image) and some action with the Beetle in the background. Problem with this page (IMO) and I know I'm in the minority here, but as is the case with a lot of first page splashes, around 30% of the page is just writing. I buy OA for the ART, not writing. Same reason I'm not a huge cover buyer, a lot of stats/words and a lot less art. Covers have way more significance though than a splash as at least comic collectors know exactly what it is as they have seen it when they collect. Pretty much the only thing you know if you buy CGC books is the cover. I actually think there is some "brain-washing" with splash pages. If most or all the page is art, great, should be worth more than a good panel page. But if a lot of the page is words/stats, what difference does it make. Is it just because they tell you who the artist and writer are? *Interior page. Arguably, this is a great full on action page. Unlike many interior pages, there is no filer. Each panel is classic Spider-Man and classic Gene Colan. And, it's SPIDER-MAN, who is a lot more popular than DD. As several people commented on CAF, the only reason this didn't sell for a whole lot more is because it was in DD's book and not ASM, not necessarily because Romita didn't draw it. This is not to knock anyone who owns these other pages, but which one would you rather own if the costs was the same. Opening to discussion, and feel free to add your own "would you rather". At least try to get the artist and price generally the same. Easier to compare two apples (even if they are different kinds) then apples and oranges.