Opinions on pencil only pages? 1 1

[rob_allan]

Here's a detail from one of Frank Hampson's handful of surviving MODESTY BLAISE tryout dailies (the earliest of all MB strips, pre-dating Jim Holdaway's work). This daily was left as pencils-only art, and provides an extremely rare glimpse into how the artist's pre-inked work looked (I know of no other pencils-only Hampson original art, so this is unique):

 

 

This has all kinds of cool going on. Nice.

[brandolsn]

I'm not sure what Sean Phillips stuff you're talking about, but I do know there has been some confusion over his "bluelines".

I inquired about one of his Criminal covers once, and it was inked over a blue line copy - in this case I don't think it really matters though as it was handled to the final inked stage by Phillips - different from Wieringo/Kesel or Cooke/J.Bone as examples - even though the final/inked/published version is never (usually) even touched by the original line artist, I still prefer the pencil art in this case - first time I experienced this was with a Kesel inked Wieringo piece - it was awesome, but in the end was bothered that Wieringo didn't physically handle the original I had - it took a while for me to come around to accepting pencil art originals that go straight to digital colors, but I really appreciate them these days - especially with artists like Quitely and Jae Lee doing such beautiful work.

Edited December 20, 2007 by brandolsn

[justin]

My Marvel Zombies page has hand drawn blue pencil with the inks right over it. What's interesting to me is that My Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk page by Leinil Yu has hand drawn blue pencil with the regular pencils over top of that! Never saw that coming.

[Tatterdamillion]

I like penciled pages myself just as much as inked work. This Conan penciled page is really nice, and it makes me wonder what the pencils look like for a lot of the pages I have. It seems Truman was going for a "Nord-esque" feel with the pencils on this first page while his Jonah Hex page is inked and looks much chunkier which to me is very "Truman".

 

[Nexus]

Inked blue lines are as bad as stats IMO, and I have avoided some Sean Phillips stuff specifically because of this.

 

I'm not sure what Sean Phillips stuff you're talking about, but I do know there has been some confusion over his "bluelines".

 

There was a cover he did for a zombie book (Raise the Dead, I think?) where it was listed in the description that it was inked over printed blue lines. I liked the cover but couldn't see paying the asking price.

 

I know this issue has come up with Phillips' work before, not just with MARVEL ZOMBIES. But judging from all the replies, it does appear that some of his inked work might be on blue line copies. Can't quite figure out why it would be done like that since he's doing the layouts himself, but I'll accept everyone's word for it.

 

The Marvel Zombies pages are the blue pencil you're referring to if I'm not mistaken (I love your splash by the way).

 

Thanks! (thumbs u

 

BTW, my own personal preference is for inks over pencils, but if I had no other choice, I would buy pencil-only art. If, say, WATCHMEN was only available as pencil-only OA, I'd still want my example and I'd pay just as much for it.

[Erato]

If I recall correctly; Pat Olliffe does thumbnail breakdowns, enlarges those on xerox, then ink boxes the breakdowns onto art board in blue pencil, finally tightening up the art with a regular graphite pencil. This is then inked.

 

I prefer Inked art. And I'm a big fan of Olliffe. And as he does finish the art in pencil over his roughs, I don't see any problem with it. Oh, did I mention I'm a big fan of Olliffe.

 

Just my

 

Happy Hunting,

 

Brian

[pinupcartoonguy]

As an example of incorrect attribution, we have this page:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260196001709&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

 

It's Shane Glines inks over a blue-line copy. BT's pencils are on a completely different page.

[doom-migration]

Hi all, from my 10 years of collecting, I would say pencil and ink pages are the most desired. There are many reasons why, the 3 most important reason to me is,

1. that is the image that was published in the comic(pencil only is not)

2. inks look way better (unless the pencil is hyper detailed-most are not),

3. you have 2 artist creating a single page the penciler, and the inker using their talent to create a work of art.

Now I have seen some amazing pencil only pages, dell otto, Jay Anacleto is amazing, but these are hyper detailed. Most pages do not have half the detail they create. But I would not hesitate to buy one from either of those 2 even if it was only pencils.

I am a big dr doom collector, but I have never like Mike Wieringo's work because it was pencil only, just never appealed to me and would not look as good as inked pages that I have framed on the walls. Now the other side is that I would not want an inked only page. OR a blueline inked page like Bruce Timm does. He charges a ton for his pages and that is only for his inks on blueline (not the original pencils) which I think is insane. Even though I like the inked versions the best visually, the pencils are the most important artistically, which should be the most valuable which is why I want both the original pencils and inks on the same page.

I wish there was a way you could tell if the original pencils are on it.

DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my CAF site

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=19361

 

[Claudio]

As an example of incorrect attribution, we have this page:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260196001709&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

 

It's Shane Glines inks over a blue-line copy. BT's pencils are on a completely different page.

 

Wow. The price it sold at make me think the buyer thinks it is done over original pencils.

[justin]

to Doom:

 

"1. that is the image that was published in the comic(pencil only is not)"

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Aren't there some pencil only pages that are the pages that were published. From my limited personal experience, isn't Leinil Yu's current work in New Avengers and Ult. Wolv. vs Hulk published pencils? Help me out.

 

BTW- I agree with the rest of your points.

[Mac Man]

What are the general thoughts on inks on blue line? Also, how exactly does the blue line work? I kind of assumed it was a sort of "photocopy" but I hate assuming things.

 

Thanks for helping the newb!

 

*** Ok- I did a search and finally found the answer to my questions. Downside is I have another question, and didn't see an answer to it. How can you tell if a piece is blue pencil or blue line (esp. if it is already inked)?

Edited January 2, 2008 by Mac Man

[Mac Man]

?

[DTM700]

Necro'ing this post so I don't create a new topic.

I'm looking at a penciled only page and the description says "Pencils Only. Inked Version likely exists." So can I assume it would be a prelim and not the final/published version?

[Doc McCoy]

10 minutes ago, DTM700 said:

Necro'ing this post so I don't create a new topic.

I'm looking at a penciled only page and the description says "Pencils Only. Inked Version likely exists." So can I assume it would be a prelim and not the final/published version?

Not necessarily a prelim.  More than likely the inking was done over blue line due to deadlines.  Both pieces could be considered published art.

[SquareChaos]

Both are originals, and both contribute to the published piece, but in my opinion only the inked version is truly the published piece. That wouldn't stop me from buying a nice pencils only page though, especially if the pencils are very tight.

[Thawk]

I like the pencils just as much as the inks (in some cases a little more depending on the inker).  Assuming it wasn't digitally inked though, that always makes me want to find and get the inks too.  But the pencils reveal a lot about the original art process which is always really fun to look at and can change how I view the final page - making me appreciate different details.  I would definitely disagree about considering pencils only as more of a prelim - those are the actual lines used for the page regardless of whether they got scanned zero, once, or multiple times before getting inked and published.

But I'll echo the sentiment that one of the fun things about this hobby is everyone has their own thoughts and passions that govern how they collect.  Can't fault any of that.

[SquareChaos]

I would also not call fully completed pencils from the digital era a prelim, but yeah, there are a lot of different ways of thinking about it.

[Madman1138]

Like most it seems, I will always prefer art that is penciled and inked together on one board. That is why I mostly collect '90s and before art generally.

But when it comes to pencil only art, there are a lot of factors that play into value and desirability, as mentioned above. For me, another factor that is extremely important is whether they are fully finished tight pencils or some looser sketchy pencils covered with little x's where the blacked in spots should be because they will be inked. These feel unfinished and incomplete and have no desirability to me at all. So if there are ink over blueline copies versions, I would rather have those. So in these cases I would always want to have the finished page, whether pencils or blueline inks.

However, in many cases these days the original pencils of many artists are colored and published right off the pencils, like Jae Lee's Dark Tower art for example. If pencils-only are the only existing physical original art, then I will still buy it. One of my favorite pieces in my collection is my quad-cover image by Mico Suayan from Valiant's Harbinger series. These are fully finished and tonally detailed pencils that went straight to coloring, and no ink art exists. So I prefer finished pencils if I would even buy them, and don't pass on art I really want just because it isn't inked. (as long as it isn't covered in little x's)

[JadeGiant]

Good point ... I have several Mike Deodato pages that were published from pencils and they are gorgeous.

[Twanj]

I have 3 DPSes and a splash that are pencils only. I don't know if inks over blue lines exist.

I also have 3 Inks over bluelines pages. I think original pencils exist (as in, they're not digital).

The inked stuff displays better from a distance (just because it's darker and easier to see) even tho the DPS/splash pages have more images that "grab" you more.

The pencil are you have to be closer to appreciate, but it's great.

I think I read on here that value would be pencils 60% / inks only 40% if both were available. It would be kinda cool to have the inks only & pencils only to match what I have, but I don't know if I would sink that much more $ into "duplicates".