Why cant I find a high grade GI Joe 21??

[Guest]

From what I gather it would probably sell closer to 6 or 7 hundred! There are a lot of Joe fanatics that want the high grade stuff (me included) and will pay almost any cost. Dont tell that to Darth though. He would just add that to his growing hype machine!

[Guest]

I recently purchased a copy of #21 that has a good chance of being a 9.8. The spine is flawless and so is the rest of the book except for a TINY (less than a millimeter) ding in the upper right hand corner of the cover. My 9.8 graded #4 of GI JOE has a small corner bend in the bottom right hand corner of the cover. I went over the book with a 20X lens for an hour looking for ANY flaws. Except for the corner I mentioned there are Zip,Zilch,Nada, flaws on this book. Any opinions out there on what the grade of this book may be? Ive seen 9.9s before and without the tiny corner ding it would grade a 9.9 possibly a 10. I wish I wasnt a computer insufficiently_thoughtful_person otherwise I would put a scan of this book up. D-

[Darthdiesel]

If you opened it, it is a 9.8....

[Guest]

I dont follow Darth...what do you mean?

[comicinvestor-migration]

If you opened it, it is a 9.8....

 

So how do you get a 10.0? That's assuming CGC doesn't employ graders with X-Ray vision who don't actually need to open it to examine the inside pages....

[Darthdiesel]

I personally did not open it. CGC takes precautions to insure the spine remaines intact on those cardstocks and not end up all white and frayed. So it is possible that if you personally open it before sending it in for slabbing you may damage the book... in some near microscopic level....

[Darthdiesel]

Wise@$$! x-ray vision indeed...

[Guest]

Forgive my lack of knowledge on the theme CI....so what youre saying is that my perfect (except for corner ding) copy is going to get F***ed up by the graders who will pry the book open with a crobar? D-

[Darthdiesel]

dungeon I should have edited and said, "If you personally opened it, is a 9.8 "at best"

 

I don't know many books that end up at 9.8 that were read. I can't read a book with out leaving my fingerprints all over and on black covers it is too evident to ignore. When opening a book you may vrease the cover ever so slightly in bending that the sheen is bothered and the cover will show the bend after angling in the light. I'm surprised CI with his keen eye for book quality did not remember or catch this phenomena himself. I'm not an ogre fumbling through my comic pages when reading but even with the utmost care, opening a book (fully) to read may cause unseen creasing of covers.

 

I don't know how CGC does it, but I assume they have gloves and auto page turners that open the book never beyond a certain degree of angle to insure that the pliancy and sheen of the covers remain intact and original.

 

How did I get a 10? How did I get 7 of them? It defintiely wasn't by opening it up and reading them!

[Darthdiesel]

Nice going CI Scare the man into sharing your paranoia and jaded mistrust of CGC. No Dungeon, CGC will not crowbar your book into the bowels of lower gradedom. You have already insured us that the book is at best a 9.4- 9.6 because of the corner ding. That is one of the heaviest flaws that CGC marks down for...say goodbye to the 9.8. Please post a scan of the book so we can better evaluate and back up our assessments. 9.8s should not have any dings noticable on the spine or on the corners. Corners are sharp, spines are perfect..that is the 9.8 and up motto.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Forgive my lack of knowledge on the theme CI....so what youre saying is that my perfect (except for corner ding) copy is going to get F***ed up by the graders who will pry the book open with a crobar? D-

 

It's a conceptual problem I have at the 9.9 and 10.0 range, as it's accepted that only unread, "touched only with plastic gloves", never-opened books can achieve this range....

 

But since CGC must open the comic and examine each and every page, how can any comic be a 9.9 or 10.0? I don't care what anyone (ie. Darth) tries to tell me, I know for a fact that opening a book up to the degree needed to check ALL pages and covers, causes small defects to the outer spine and other cover areas.

 

I guess you could say that CGC gives out 9.9 and 10.0 grades for their "pre-graded condition", but that again means you're buying an illusionary number of "past condition" and not a truly pristine comic in the present tense.

[Guest]

Okay...I get it....I NEVER open a comic more than 45 degrees because I know that what you were talking about is true. I am very careful when I grade books. I used to grade cards so I know how delicate any kind of paper is. Finding a book worthy of a 10 is damn near impossible if you ask me. I dont even bother looking for books made before last month looking for a 10. I do know my 9.8s well though. When I checked the spine it was flawless. I seriously believe the book would have graded a 9.9 had it not been for the small ding I mentioned. The only thing i am concerned about is the book coming back a 9.6. It deserves a 9.8 only because it is as nice if not nicer than the other 9.8s I own. The ding I mentioned is so small its barely noticeable. It would truly suck if it came back a 9.6! D-

[Guest]

I wish I knew how to put up pictures. Im computer illiterate so I have no idea how to post a picture here. I have a GI Joe #4 in a 9.8 with a small 1 millimeter dogear on the bottom right hand corner. I also have seen NUMEROUS scans of 9.8 books that had this same flaw. Maybe they overlook such a flaw if the rest of the book is gorgeous??

[Darthdiesel]

I don't care what anyone (ie. Darth) tries to tell me, I know for a fact that opening a book up to the degree needed to check ALL pages and covers, causes small defects to the outer spine and other cover areas.

 

You know for a fact that a book has to be opened to that degree in order to properly check the pages? Maybe when you grade, or when I grade a book, but please assure us all that you know for a fact that CGC grades in the same fashion and where this comes from? My theory is supposition not fact. Don't mislead ppoor dungeon that your words are indeed FACT. You neither are an employee, or grader for CGC and other than those guys, you can not know the Colonel's secret recipe... I'm just reiterating that when you or I grade books we may have to open it up sometimes, like checking for the MVS stamps on Hulk 181. But I just told you that I do my prescreen grade withoutnopening the book. It is all external checking and angling against the light.

[comicinvestor-migration]

I think they overlook that flaw if it's present on a majority of the comics printed. That's what happened with many of the Origin high-grades, as the printing flaw was determined to be extremely prevalent for the run.

[Guest]

These flaws I see are definitely human made and not common on the other issues of this book I have owned.

[Guest]

Youre right about trying not to open the book while grading it. I checked the book at several angles using different kinds of light ..ala card grading.. and it was still flawless..sans the corner ding. I dont even bother looking for elusive 10s on any of the early Joes I collect. Being a former professional grader of cards I know how to detect flaws and even attempts at restoration. What I dont know are the EXACT standards by which CGC grades their books. This would help a lot of people out there who dont have a clue to how CGC grades their books. This is why I get confused. You tell me there is no way I could get a 9.8 by the description I gave you but I have books with the same flaw that were graded a 9.8. Inconsistency???

[Darthdiesel]

No - my take is that the ding occurred post slabbing in the handling. Some CGC books without the inner well or oosely sealed can grade at 9.8, then if you shake the slab vigorously, you proceed to ding the corners and blunt them. Not inconsistency. Bad handling.

[Guest]

Good point Darth but this flaw in the Joe #4 was a fold in the corner. There is NO way that this could have occured by mishandling. Its a fold and not an impact blunt.

[blowout]

what about mishandling by whoever slabbed the book, already been graded, so they just seal it right up