Another batch of Overgraded books from a major dealer... RANT!!!

[nearmint]

Purchased from Ted as an 8.5...

 

 

 

Purchased from Ted as an 8.0...

 

 

 

I didn't call him on the Exciting, but did on the Fighting Yank. He offered a $150 credit or the option of returning the book. I took the credit.

 

[nik]

We can play this purchase and CGC result game all day long. And I am not just reffering to Ted. We always dwell on the negative, never the positive.

 

When was the last time someone showed a raw purchase that graded higher then advertised grade from a dealer. I don't care who you are, everyone messes up once in a while, even some of the tightest graders mentioned in this thread.

 

As long as they accept returns or if it comes back a PLOD and they will take it back, who really cares

 

All this should be handled between the buyer and seller, period. This is a risk we all take when buying a book sight unseen or based on a friggen scan.

[the blob]

One problem, it seems to me, is that what many here think a grade should be is based on tightly graded CGC books we've seen/owned, but we all know that CGC also pumps out plenty of 9.0s, 9.2s, 9.4s and even 9.6s that make us scratch our heads. I had a 9.4 ASM 300 (WP) that must have had at least 6 spine stresses. It would have never occurred to me to call that NM were I selling it raw and I'm not the tightest around here for sure (though I tend to avoid grading books as NM or better). There was that 9.0 early 70's JLA 9.0 that was posted here with some major ugly spine stressage going on and there are plenty more out there. I was told by a regular forumite here that a 9.0 could not have one spine stress and minor corner blunting, so standards are all over the place. Granted, I haven't seen the books, but I suspect that whichever dealer is being written about could probably point to several slabs that justify his grades unless he just flat out missed something. This doesn't solve the problem however.

 

As for old skool...yes, i think some things are given a lot more weight by some old timers, like really nice cover gloss. I remember pre-CGC, collectors and dealers liking to talk about gloss and all that, does CGC even care? It sure does make a book look nicer, though through a slab the impact is greatly diminished so I can see why CGC doesn't care. (This comes to mind as I was flipping through some unbagged mid-BA books the other day and some of them were frigging glossy as heck, but had some corner dings and I thought it was a shame that none of them were better than a Fine and the glossiness isn't really considered a plus nowadays.

[the blob]

just looking at those two GA books, honestly, based on many other slabs, ted's grades seemed to be spot on for what CGC normally gives (putting aside I assume him missing the detached center fold...which, unless it happened after he bagged it up, is kindah inexcusable because you MUST do a page count on GA books like those!). frome the front that fighting yank could be an 8.5-9.0 based on typical GA CGC grading and it would be easy to find many slabbed 8.5s in the same condition as the other book that got a 7.5. when looking at the books (putting aside the detached centerfold) did YOU disagree with the grades? seriously, I've gotten 6.5s - 7.5s GA CGCs that look HORRIBLE.

 

once again, CGC's inconsistency gives dealers a lot of wiggle room.

[burntboy]

Purchased from Ted as an 8.5...

 

 

 

Purchased from Ted as an 8.0...

 

 

 

I didn't call him on the Exciting, but did on the Fighting Yank. He offered a $150 credit or the option of returning the book. I took the credit.

 

That Fighting Yank is a fine looking 6.5.............. (thumbs u

[nearmint]

We can play this purchase and CGC result game all day long. And I am not just reffering to Ted. We always dwell on the negative, never the positive.

 

When was the last time someone showed a raw purchase that graded higher then advertised grade from a dealer. I don't care who you are, everyone messes up once in a while, even some of the tightest graders mentioned in this thread.

 

As long as they accept returns or if it comes back a PLOD and they will take it back, who really cares

 

All this should be handled between the buyer and seller, period. This is a risk we all take when buying a book sight unseen or based on a friggen scan.

 

I don't think we've only dwelled on the negative when it comes to Ted. Everyone seems to mention what a great guy he is, how fun he is to talk to at conventions, how his returns policy it trouble-free. The worst I'm hearing is that some people have decided only to buy from him in person rather than mail-order. I'd say that we're bending over backwards to express the positive.

 

I don't think I've ever had a raw purchase grade higher than the dealer's advertised raw grade.

 

I just wish Ted would tighten his grading up a bit. It's frustrating to get excited about a particular book(which may be very hard to find), only to find that you've overpaid for it. The option to return it doesn't relieve that disappointment.

[sterlingcomics]

Kinda of the same when shopping in a con. I don't know of too many people that will let you take the book out and examine it and maybe/maybe not purchase it.

 

I usually do a "bag check" first. If it passes initial inspection, and I'm interested, there's no way I'm buying it ($20 or $2,000) without examining the book in full.

[sterlingcomics]

I don't think I've ever had a raw purchase grade higher than the dealer's advertised raw grade.

 

I have, and it actually came from raw purchases from Ted (a rarity but it did happen), Blazing Bob, eBay's bobcat.enterprises, and Sulipa.

 

In general though I think the above quote is the average. I've mentioned the exceptions.

[buttock]

 

I just wish Ted would tighten his grading up a bit. It's frustrating to get excited about a particular book(which may be very hard to find), only to find that you've overpaid for it. The option to return it doesn't relieve that disappointment.

 

You touch on something important here. The joy of the purchase is critically overlooked by a lot of dealers. Say I want a nice 9.0 copy of a book and I find a 9.4 at 9.0 price. I order it and it comes in a marginal 9.0.

 

Had that book been offered as a 8.5/9.0 and I bought it, when I open the package my first impression is pleasure. As it is, the first impression is disappointment which then taints my whole outlook on the book. Rather than looking at its good qualities, I may now focus on the defects. My remembrance of that book is that "it should have been a 9.4".

 

The simple psychology of it makes me more likely to return it. Why do people gripe so much about Ebay purchases that were overgraded when paying only 20-50% of guide? It's the misrepresentation and feeling that you've been "taken".

 

If you grade accurately, you can probably get equivalent (or higher) value when people don't hesitate to buy from you. Not only that, you'll probably get people taking more chances on books you offer (i.e. you sell a higher quantity).

[joe_collector]

I hope to have a big package from him waiting for me when I get home today.

 

Hey, go for it big guy.

[whomerjay]

 

I just wish Ted would tighten his grading up a bit. It's frustrating to get excited about a particular book(which may be very hard to find), only to find that you've overpaid for it. The option to return it doesn't relieve that disappointment.

 

You touch on something important here. The joy of the purchase is critically overlooked by a lot of dealers. Say I want a nice 9.0 copy of a book and I find a 9.4 at 9.0 price. I order it and it comes in a marginal 9.0.

 

Had that book been offered as a 8.5/9.0 and I bought it, when I open the package my first impression is pleasure. As it is, the first impression is disappointment which then taints my whole outlook on the book. Rather than looking at its good qualities, I may now focus on the defects. My remembrance of that book is that "it should have been a 9.4".

 

The simple psychology of it makes me more likely to return it. Why do people gripe so much about Ebay purchases that were overgraded when paying only 20-50% of guide? It's the misrepresentation and feeling that you've been "taken".

 

If you grade accurately, you can probably get equivalent (or higher) value when people don't hesitate to buy from you. Not only that, you'll probably get people taking more chances on books you offer (i.e. you sell a higher quantity).

 

IMO your point applies to only a small % of buyers (greatly represented on these boards). When you consider:

1) the majority of buyers can't grade anywhere near as accurately as you can; and

 

2) in most cases grading accurately on ebay actually hurts you because most buyers are assuming the books are overgraded, and thus bids are supressed

 

it pays to just overgrade and take the occasional hit of a return or neg.

 

#2 is the reason I rarely sell on ebay. No sense giving away NM books at F prices. It is true that some sellers developea reputation of accurately grading or undergrading books, and get a following that bids up their books. But these types are rare, and it is far from guaranteed that if you accurately/under grade your books you'll ever develop such a following; chances improve if you're big volume and in the game for a long time.

[capt_comics]

Purchased from Ted as an 8.5...

 

 

 

Purchased from Ted as an 8.0...

 

 

 

I didn't call him on the Exciting, but did on the Fighting Yank. He offered a $150 credit or the option of returning the book. I took the credit.

 

Both these books appear by the scan to be close to the "raw" grade he gave them(loose centerfold the one exception... he should have caught that). I've seen 8.0 and 8.5 that look the same. I think if there is one area that CGC is somewhat loose on, it's GA. Seems like their standards certainly may have changed over the years. Sometimes loose , sometimes tight. May depend on what book(s) they are grading?? DC, Timely, etc.

But, saying what has been said about grading, I still see a lot of raw overgrading on these boards, some by some big players. VG- seems to be a grade used a lot where the books are certainly no better than Good. See a lot of people advertise 9.0-9.2-9.4 books with blunted corners, creases and dirty back covers.

Bottom line, you have to know who you are dealing with always. People make mistakes and as long as returns are allowed, shouldn't be a problem.

just my

 

 

 

[Monstro]

The problem is 80% probably buy the overgraded books and don't know any better (the mile high effect). The 20% (most of these boards) don't mess around and return stuff. I bet overall his returns are very small. As more and more people become grade sensitive, more and more of these dealers will either have to step up or step out.

 

i know i am probably in that 80%

 

i guess cause i don't slab books or sell very much so i'm not as worried about making a good

return on every book i buy.

 

 

[brasseye]

That Fighting Yank is a fine looking 6.5.............. (thumbs u

 

I've got to agree. Ted can't be held to account for every tiny nuance that CGC may pick up on a detailed grade analysis. In fact no dealer can.

 

But did you pay 8.0 CGC price, or something less?? People paying CGC prices for raw's aren't shopping in the right places!

[nearmint]

Fighting Yank #4 is a tough book. Ted missed the detached centerfold. I emailed him as soon as I got the book, and we arranged the credit. No hard feelings, as he did provide a book I'd been looking for for a while.

[buttock]

I hope to have a big package from him waiting for me when I get home today.

 

Hey, go for it big guy.

 

I spent a while trying to word that appropriately. I really would have had to write a long sentence to remove all the innuendo.

[Pirate]

The problem is 80% probably buy the overgraded books and don't know any better (the mile high effect). The 20% (most of these boards) don't mess around and return stuff. I bet overall his returns are very small. As more and more people become grade sensitive, more and more of these dealers will either have to step up or step out.

 

i know i am probably in that 80%

 

i guess cause i don't slab books or sell very much so i'm not as worried about making a good

return on every book i buy.

 

 

Well they love people like you, MH has made a fortune doing this. It's not all about a good return, but being able to make an informed buying decision based on expertise and not just taking the word of someone else.

[mikephoen]

 

 

Purchased from Ted as an 8.0...

 

 

 

I didn't call him on the Exciting, but did on the Fighting Yank. He offered a $150 credit or the option of returning the book. I took the credit.

 

I've never dealt with Ted, and have no dog in this fight, but I gotta say, thats a SWEET looking 6.5....

[nearmint]

CGC seems to knock about 1.5 off for a detached centerfold, so his grade would have been right otherwise.

[sckao]

Just to take this as an example:

 

Fighting Yank #4 in the new guide at 8.0:

$519 in VF (8.0)

$249 in F (6.0) a difference of $270.

Divide the 3 grades in between equally for sake of argument and you have $339 in 6.5.

 

A 7.0 GRADED copy sold in Apr 2007 for $870.00 while the two 8.0s from 2006 average $695.00 (Still over a 33% markup over Guide).

 

I don't know how much was paid for this comic (and it's none of my business), but just using this as an example -- there's a clear risk and reward situation with most any HG purchase. (I'd consider a potential 8.0 GA to be HG.) There are only two slabbed 9.4s on the CGC Census, one 8.0, one 7.0, and the 6.5.

 

A lot of dealers are probably weighing this when they decide to slab or not to slab a comic since slabbing everything involves a large outlay of cash that's tied up until a sale. A lot of buyers are also weighing this as it seems that every slabbed copy on the census has traded hands publicly at least once.

 

So the dealer takes a risk of losing money by not slabbing the comic. The buyer takes a risk that the comic may not necessarily grade out.

 

Hopefully, there's some room in between for both sides to profit.

 

(Of course, I realize that the buyer may simply want what's advertised with no profit involved.)