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Quality Comix vs. Greg Jortner - Important Information For The Community
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Started by esquirecomics,

324 posts in this topic

DKeeneman

DKeeneman

Posted
Posted

There is nothing wrong with a lawyer bringing this up publicly, as long as the client does not care. It happens all of the time.

 

In this case, there are good reasons to make it public, not the least of which is to keep us all informed about who we are dealing with. I, for one, would be hesitant to consign books through Greg given this information. If he breached an agreement with QC, who is to say he wouldn't with me on a consignment?

 

Mark is serving his client AND the community by letting us know all of this. Greg is, of course, free to defend himself on the Boards if he choses to do so.

 

And, yes, you absolutely can have a contract that is not in writing. You prove it by testimony of what the agreement provided, as well as evidence of performance. As to how a judge or jury decides what the contract provided, they listen to the evidence and decide who they believe is telling the truth. Juries and judges decide "he said, she said" cases daily.

 

While certain contracts have to be in writing to be enforced, exceptions are made, such as where there has been full performance on one side of the agreement. Otherwise, you are opening the door to people taking advantage of others by receiving performance and then not performing their end while hiding behind the lack of a contract as a defense.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Well, two out of three lawyers have disagreed with you... (shrug)
Now 3 out of 4. Nothing says you have to keep business disputes private.

 

For shadroch: You don't always have to have a writing to have a contract.

 

 

 

Make that 4 out of 5.

Who's the holdout again? (shrug)

 

And you are 100% right on with the contract construction analysis.

 

Chris

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted
Well, two out of three lawyers have disagreed with you... (shrug)
Now 3 out of 4. Nothing says you have to keep business disputes private.

 

For shadroch: You don't always have to have a writing to have a contract.

 

 

 

Make that 4 out of 5.

Who's the holdout again? (shrug)

 

And you are 100% right on with the contract construction analysis.

 

Chris

 

You can make it 5 out of 6. Sometimes the best leverage is publicity. In this instance publication is the best move, though I will also agree with Shadroch that there are many instances where it's better to keep the dispute private. I just don't think this is one of them.

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Aces

Aces

Posted
Posted
Well, two out of three lawyers have disagreed with you... (shrug)
Now 3 out of 4. Nothing says you have to keep business disputes private.

 

For shadroch: You don't always have to have a writing to have a contract.

 

 

 

Make that 4 out of 5.

Who's the holdout again? (shrug)

 

And you are 100% right on with the contract construction analysis.

 

Chris

 

You can make it 5 out of 6. Sometimes the best leverage is publicity. In this instance publication is the best move, though I will also agree with Shadroch that there are many instances where it's better to keep the dispute private. I just don't think this is one of them.

 

From what I've read here and in other threads the guy is active and is scamming people.

This isn't an isolated event that would be best delt with in a back room.

It's a public service to warn others in the hobby about this person.

 

 

-=Non-Lawyer=-

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Broken Shakespear

Broken Shakespear

Posted
Posted

In this case, I don't believe a written contract is necessary, just proof that the money was loaned.

 

The court will go under the assumption that if you were loaning money in a partnership, that the goal would be to recoup your entire investment plus a profit.

 

Quality Comix needs to prove that they loaned Jortner money (canceled check, etc.), have an inventory of the books purchased by Jortner, and provide records of the books sold on E-Bay.

 

Without a contract this is a partnership. It sounds like Jortner did the leg work to find the books, and handled the selling of the books. A court would rule how equal the partnership is. One guy wrote a check and the other guy did all the work. Both are important aspects to the partnership.

 

Now if Jortner bought 200 books, sold 100, and is still holding the other 100 AND not paying Quality back, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought 200, sold 200, and only shared half the money from 100 of them with Quality, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought and sold all the books, and they just didn't earn enough to recoup the full $10k, then I don't think Jortner is obligated to be the only one left holding the bag. Also, if that were the case, Quality should have gotten the entire $4k back. Quality would loose money on the deal, and Jortner would loose time, which is what each partner put into the deal.

 

Now for another question. How come when you hear about shady comic deals, it almost always seems to involve someone from New York or New Jersey? The lesson I've learned is to never enter into business dealings with anyone from New York or New Jersey. It seems this is true for comics, baseball cards, major electronics, real estate, etc. It just seems like this area is the fraud capital of the US.

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Genesis Comics

Genesis Comics

Posted
Posted
In this case, I don't believe a written contract is necessary, just proof that the money was loaned.

 

The court will go under the assumption that if you were loaning money in a partnership, that the goal would be to recoup your entire investment plus a profit.

 

Quality Comix needs to prove that they loaned Jortner money (canceled check, etc.), have an inventory of the books purchased by Jortner, and provide records of the books sold on E-Bay.

 

Without a contract this is a partnership. It sounds like Jortner did the leg work to find the books, and handled the selling of the books. A court would rule how equal the partnership is. One guy wrote a check and the other guy did all the work. Both are important aspects to the partnership.

 

Now if Jortner bought 200 books, sold 100, and is still holding the other 100 AND not paying Quality back, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought 200, sold 200, and only shared half the money from 100 of them with Quality, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought and sold all the books, and they just didn't earn enough to recoup the full $10k, then I don't think Jortner is obligated to be the only one left holding the bag. Also, if that were the case, Quality should have gotten the entire $4k back. Quality would loose money on the deal, and Jortner would loose time, which is what each partner put into the deal.

 

Now for another question. How come when you hear about shady comic deals, it almost always seems to involve someone from New York or New Jersey? The lesson I've learned is to never enter into business dealings with anyone from New York or New Jersey. It seems this is true for comics, baseball cards, major electronics, real estate, etc. It just seems like this area is the fraud capital of the US.

 

This is the 2nd time in less than a few weeks where someone has said they wouldn't do business with someone from NY or NJ. Statements like this are unecessary and not based on fact only on a few bad apples. I, myself, am from NY and have never had a bad transaction either here, ebay, or the valiant message boards. Korvac Saga (NY) and burntboy (NJ) Mutant Keys (NY) and I am sure many other NY/NJ people are above the line people as well. If I have forgotten anyone :foryou: Please don't lump us all into "bad NY/NJ people" . That's just not a fair assessment.

 

You may not like ComicLink, Metro, or Silver Age, and if that's the case, don't deal with them. Your general prejudice against the entire NY/NJ region is just wrong and, if I may be so bold, uneducated. Shady dealings happen every day in every corner of the world...don't make assumptions on your limited knowledge/prejudice. This mess pisses me off...

 

Bill

(Proud NYer)

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Broken Shakespear

Broken Shakespear

Posted
Posted (edited)
Has Heritage moved its operations to NY?

Or PGX? How about Jason Ewert? Mile High? ect,ect,ad nauseum

 

I haven't heard of Heritage or Mile High defrauding people. It's one thing to complain that someone like Mile High misgrades (or actually, just doesn't grade the same way you do), and does have a return policy. It's something else entirely when someone takes your money, or sells you a book as unrestored, when they have trimmed and color touched it.

 

I'm talking about stuff like this Jortner business, Dupcak, Comic-Keys, etc.

 

And I stated outside of comics as well. It seems like every cell phone reseller is out of Jersey, and they sell refurbs as new phones (this has happened to me twice now). Or here is another example from Jersey:

 

http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0069.htm

 

This is apparently the location of BuyRiteElectonics.com, The Digital Store, Best Camera, and Ideal Photo and Video. Nice storefront for a web vendor!

 

Or here is the location of AffordableHomeElectronics.com:

 

http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0041.htm

 

I guess they must sell the electronics right off their kitchen counter top. Hopefully you don't get a toaster with the toast still in it!

 

It just seems like NY and NJ have a higher concentration of seedy business deals than other areas. I'm not saying it doesn't happen other places... I mean 71% of all online fraud in the world originates from the US. Since US is #1 in fraud, and NY City is #1 in population (and NJ catches the spill over), I guess it makes sense that more fraud seems to come out of that area.

Edited by Broken Shakespear
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Broken Shakespear

Broken Shakespear

Posted
Posted
In this case, I don't believe a written contract is necessary, just proof that the money was loaned.

 

The court will go under the assumption that if you were loaning money in a partnership, that the goal would be to recoup your entire investment plus a profit.

 

Quality Comix needs to prove that they loaned Jortner money (canceled check, etc.), have an inventory of the books purchased by Jortner, and provide records of the books sold on E-Bay.

 

Without a contract this is a partnership. It sounds like Jortner did the leg work to find the books, and handled the selling of the books. A court would rule how equal the partnership is. One guy wrote a check and the other guy did all the work. Both are important aspects to the partnership.

 

Now if Jortner bought 200 books, sold 100, and is still holding the other 100 AND not paying Quality back, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought 200, sold 200, and only shared half the money from 100 of them with Quality, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought and sold all the books, and they just didn't earn enough to recoup the full $10k, then I don't think Jortner is obligated to be the only one left holding the bag. Also, if that were the case, Quality should have gotten the entire $4k back. Quality would loose money on the deal, and Jortner would loose time, which is what each partner put into the deal.

 

Now for another question. How come when you hear about shady comic deals, it almost always seems to involve someone from New York or New Jersey? The lesson I've learned is to never enter into business dealings with anyone from New York or New Jersey. It seems this is true for comics, baseball cards, major electronics, real estate, etc. It just seems like this area is the fraud capital of the US.

 

This is the 2nd time in less than a few weeks where someone has said they wouldn't do business with someone from NY or NJ. Statements like this are unecessary and not based on fact only on a few bad apples. I, myself, am from NY and have never had a bad transaction either here, ebay, or the valiant message boards. Korvac Saga (NY) and burntboy (NJ) Mutant Keys (NY) and I am sure many other NY/NJ people are above the line people as well. If I have forgotten anyone :foryou: Please don't lump us all into "bad NY/NJ people" . That's just not a fair assessment.

 

You may not like ComicLink, Metro, or Silver Age, and if that's the case, don't deal with them. Your general prejudice against the entire NY/NJ region is just wrong and, if I may be so bold, uneducated. Shady dealings happen every day in every corner of the world...don't make assumptions on your limited knowledge/prejudice. This mess pisses me off...

 

Bill

(Proud NYer)

 

FYI,

 

I guess I should clarify "business dealings". By business dealings, I meant business partnerships, like the one being discussed in this thread. IE, I put up money to fund a business venture with someone from NY/NJ. I never meant to imply that I wouldn't do any type of business with people from New York. I routinely sell to NY and NJ customers, and have no more problems with customers from that area, than I do anywhere else.

 

Sorry if you took it personally...

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sckao

sckao

Posted
Posted
Besides which,this guy lives in Stanford,Conn. But lets not let the facts get in the way.

 

You and your silly "facts". :makepoint:

 

Stamford, Connecticut... Stanford is the place where Cal just got its next basketball head coach. :gossip:

 

 

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

Wow, what an interesting post.

 

I guess I fall into the category of "Shady dealers" from NY.

 

I guess so long as you smile and are nice it's ok to rip people off. Being that we have so little charm being New Yorkers it's easy to hate us and lump us all together.

 

 

 

 

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Fazybones

Fazybones

Posted
Posted
Wow, what an interesting post.

 

I guess I fall into the category of "Shady dealers" from NY.

 

I guess so long as you smile and are nice it's ok to rip people off. Being that we have so little charm being New Yorkers it's easy to hate us and lump us all together.

 

 

 

 

I like you Bob and would do business with you anytime, even if you

don't smile very much. :)

 

Only rumors about the not smiling part. (shrug) I have to make it

to a Comic-con one year and confirm this. :wishluck:

 

 

:foryou:

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
In this case, I don't believe a written contract is necessary, just proof that the money was loaned.

 

The court will go under the assumption that if you were loaning money in a partnership, that the goal would be to recoup your entire investment plus a profit.

 

Quality Comix needs to prove that they loaned Jortner money (canceled check, etc.), have an inventory of the books purchased by Jortner, and provide records of the books sold on E-Bay.

 

Without a contract this is a partnership. It sounds like Jortner did the leg work to find the books, and handled the selling of the books. A court would rule how equal the partnership is. One guy wrote a check and the other guy did all the work. Both are important aspects to the partnership.

 

Now if Jortner bought 200 books, sold 100, and is still holding the other 100 AND not paying Quality back, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought 200, sold 200, and only shared half the money from 100 of them with Quality, he is obviously in the wrong. If he bought and sold all the books, and they just didn't earn enough to recoup the full $10k, then I don't think Jortner is obligated to be the only one left holding the bag. Also, if that were the case, Quality should have gotten the entire $4k back. Quality would loose money on the deal, and Jortner would loose time, which is what each partner put into the deal.

 

Now for another question. How come when you hear about shady comic deals, it almost always seems to involve someone from New York or New Jersey? The lesson I've learned is to never enter into business dealings with anyone from New York or New Jersey. It seems this is true for comics, baseball cards, major electronics, real estate, etc. It just seems like this area is the fraud capital of the US.

 

This is the 2nd time in less than a few weeks where someone has said they wouldn't do business with someone from NY or NJ. Statements like this are unecessary and not based on fact only on a few bad apples. I, myself, am from NY and have never had a bad transaction either here, ebay, or the valiant message boards. Korvac Saga (NY) and burntboy (NJ) Mutant Keys (NY) and I am sure many other NY/NJ people are above the line people as well. If I have forgotten anyone :foryou: Please don't lump us all into "bad NY/NJ people" . That's just not a fair assessment.

 

You may not like ComicLink, Metro, or Silver Age, and if that's the case, don't deal with them. Your general prejudice against the entire NY/NJ region is just wrong and, if I may be so bold, uneducated. Shady dealings happen every day in every corner of the world...don't make assumptions on your limited knowledge/prejudice. This mess pisses me off...

 

Bill

(Proud NYer)

 

Raises hand...New York!

 

It's just the concentration of population here...I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you'd find the same percentage of crooks anywhere, we just have more and better newspapers and more publicity;) Meanwhile, I read one of the threads that mentioned a comic book store named Fantasia in Westchester...I never bought any back issues when I went there, but it was not far from me... :o

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