The Official The Walking Dead Discussion Thread 13 13

[comicsnyc22]

I still can't believe the Watchmen cover went for 150K. That book created and defined an era. Maybe it's because there are no major characters on the cover, or the huge stat?

 

It's only hard to believe as an outside observer. Again, we can all speculate about what something like WD #1 would sell for...but the BSDs who are the buyers at that level are the ones who will decide. Can't say down the line, but I will say that there is no chance it will get anywhere near $1M today.

 

If you talk to long-time collectors, most will tell you that they're surprised the WATCHMEN covers sold so HIGH. These covers have not been held in high regard-- traditionally, WM fans have preferred nice pages. These covers were floated (as a set) to BSDs for years for much less than what they auctioned for now, and there was minimal interest. Personally, I like the covers when displayed as a group, and I agree that the #1 cover is key. But the reality is that during the auction, there were three bidders at $80K, and then two guys took it to the finish. The pool is not that deep when we're talking these types of numbers.

 

Having said all that, I think the WATCHMEN #1 cover is a decent "value", relative to some of the other high-dollar entries on that list.

 

Agreed, which is why I just don't think TWD #1 is pulling 1 million. I love TWD, but you can tell from that list that the ingredients for a top dollar sale are legendary artist + well known/regarded character or franchise. TWD is on it's way, but it isn't ASM. And Tony is one of my favorite artists of the modern era, but his lack of available art to me is a big reason why his pieces have so much attention.

 

Also, Felix-- WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SELL ME ALL THAT Y ART?

Edited December 9, 2013 by ComicsNYC22

[Awax]

2 more days!!!!

 

Negan figures should be in hand this week. We can make our own stories with them the way I did with my 70s Star Wars figures.

[jjeanius]

I still can't believe the Watchmen cover went for 150K. That book created and defined an era. Maybe it's because there are no major characters on the cover, or the huge stat?

 

It's only hard to believe as an outside observer. Again, we can all speculate about what something like WD #1 would sell for...but the BSDs who are the buyers at that level are the ones who will decide. Can't say down the line, but I will say that there is no chance it will get anywhere near $1M today.

 

If you talk to long-time collectors, most will tell you that they're surprised the WATCHMEN covers sold so HIGH. These covers have not been held in high regard-- traditionally, WM fans have preferred nice pages. These covers were floated (as a set) to BSDs for years for much less than what they auctioned for now, and there was minimal interest. Personally, I like the covers when displayed as a group, and I agree that the #1 cover is key. But the reality is that during the auction, there were three bidders at $80K, and then two guys took it to the finish. The pool is not that deep when we're talking these types of numbers.

 

Having said all that, I think the WATCHMEN #1 cover is a decent "value", relative to some of the other high-dollar entries on that list.

 

Agreed, which is why I just don't think TWD #1 is pulling 1 million. I love TWD, but you can tell from that list that the ingredients for a top dollar sale are legendary artist + well known/regarded character or franchise. TWD is on it's way, but it isn't ASM. And Tony is one of my favorite artists of the modern era, but his lack of available art to me is a big reason why his pieces have so much attention.

 

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

[Jim M]

I still can't believe the Watchmen cover went for 150K. That book created and defined an era. Maybe it's because there are no major characters on the cover, or the huge stat?

 

It's only hard to believe as an outside observer. Again, we can all speculate about what something like WD #1 would sell for...but the BSDs who are the buyers at that level are the ones who will decide. Can't say down the line, but I will say that there is no chance it will get anywhere near $1M today.

 

If you talk to long-time collectors, most will tell you that they're surprised the WATCHMEN covers sold so HIGH. These covers have not been held in high regard-- traditionally, WM fans have preferred nice pages. These covers were floated (as a set) to BSDs for years for much less than what they auctioned for now, and there was minimal interest. Personally, I like the covers when displayed as a group, and I agree that the #1 cover is key. But the reality is that during the auction, there were three bidders at $80K, and then two guys took it to the finish. The pool is not that deep when we're talking these types of numbers.

 

Having said all that, I think the WATCHMEN #1 cover is a decent "value", relative to some of the other high-dollar entries on that list.

 

Agreed, which is why I just don't think TWD #1 is pulling 1 million. I love TWD, but you can tell from that list that the ingredients for a top dollar sale are legendary artist + well known/regarded character or franchise. TWD is on it's way, but it isn't ASM. And Tony is one of my favorite artists of the modern era, but his lack of available art to me is a big reason why his pieces have so much attention.

 

Also, Felix-- WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SELL ME ALL THAT Y ART?

 

I think Bjorn hit the nail on the head. It's easy to get caught up in something that you love especially when talking about such an epic cover, but the fact is that the fan base for the Walking Dead will always be a fraction of something like ASM. I already feel like some of the newer art is going for crazy prices of late. I would love to buy more, I just can't bring myself to pay some of the prices.

[Mark 1]

I still can't believe the Watchmen cover went for 150K. That book created and defined an era. Maybe it's because there are no major characters on the cover, or the huge stat?

 

It's only hard to believe as an outside observer. Again, we can all speculate about what something like WD #1 would sell for...but the BSDs who are the buyers at that level are the ones who will decide. Can't say down the line, but I will say that there is no chance it will get anywhere near $1M today.

 

If you talk to long-time collectors, most will tell you that they're surprised the WATCHMEN covers sold so HIGH. These covers have not been held in high regard-- traditionally, WM fans have preferred nice pages. These covers were floated (as a set) to BSDs for years for much less than what they auctioned for now, and there was minimal interest. Personally, I like the covers when displayed as a group, and I agree that the #1 cover is key. But the reality is that during the auction, there were three bidders at $80K, and then two guys took it to the finish. The pool is not that deep when we're talking these types of numbers.

 

Having said all that, I think the WATCHMEN #1 cover is a decent "value", relative to some of the other high-dollar entries on that list.

 

Agreed, which is why I just don't think TWD #1 is pulling 1 million. I love TWD, but you can tell from that list that the ingredients for a top dollar sale are legendary artist + well known/regarded character or franchise. TWD is on it's way, but it isn't ASM. And Tony is one of my favorite artists of the modern era, but his lack of available art to me is a big reason why his pieces have so much attention.

 

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

 

This is an interesting point but speculation here is not without historical data to use as a basis to form an educated guess on the final hammer price.

 

Looking at the prices attained for some much lesser titles, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe an astronomical number (as the others on that list) could be attained.

 

 

[comicsnyc22]

I still can't believe the Watchmen cover went for 150K. That book created and defined an era. Maybe it's because there are no major characters on the cover, or the huge stat?

 

It's only hard to believe as an outside observer. Again, we can all speculate about what something like WD #1 would sell for...but the BSDs who are the buyers at that level are the ones who will decide. Can't say down the line, but I will say that there is no chance it will get anywhere near $1M today.

 

If you talk to long-time collectors, most will tell you that they're surprised the WATCHMEN covers sold so HIGH. These covers have not been held in high regard-- traditionally, WM fans have preferred nice pages. These covers were floated (as a set) to BSDs for years for much less than what they auctioned for now, and there was minimal interest. Personally, I like the covers when displayed as a group, and I agree that the #1 cover is key. But the reality is that during the auction, there were three bidders at $80K, and then two guys took it to the finish. The pool is not that deep when we're talking these types of numbers.

 

Having said all that, I think the WATCHMEN #1 cover is a decent "value", relative to some of the other high-dollar entries on that list.

 

Agreed, which is why I just don't think TWD #1 is pulling 1 million. I love TWD, but you can tell from that list that the ingredients for a top dollar sale are legendary artist + well known/regarded character or franchise. TWD is on it's way, but it isn't ASM. And Tony is one of my favorite artists of the modern era, but his lack of available art to me is a big reason why his pieces have so much attention.

 

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm almost positive all of us could pretty much name the parties who could/would realistically even be in the bidding pool. One Million sounds fun, but who's bidding it up that high?

 

Edit: We also don't have much of a gauge on public sales of high end TWD OA. I've heard numbers regarding the recent #19 sale, but even with that, there isn't a precedent/recent sale that would make me think #1 would go north of 100K. Maybe it would, but there's no market data to support it.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ComicsNYC22

[Nexus]

Also, Felix-- WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SELL ME ALL THAT Y ART?

 

I'm holding out for Tony Moore money!!

 

In all seriousness, I've gotten some high offers (even higher than the last offer for the WD #1 cover that I know about)...and I'm just not moved to sell. I'm a collector and I'd rather keep it. On the other hand, there are those who will point to that as evidence that OA is a terrible investment...because it inspires an irrational attachment, when any sane person would just cash out.

 

I'd be thrilled for Tony if it ever did.

 

If/when he decides to sell, I'd be thrilled for Tony to get a crazy number, too. Because while he may have been insane to not sell for big numbers earlier, it'd be nice if someone who truly loves their art gets the reward.

[Nexus]

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

 

This is an interesting point but speculation here is not without historical data to use as a basis to form an educated guess on the final hammer price.

 

Looking at the prices attained for some much lesser titles, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe an astronomical number (as the others on that list) could be attained.

 

 

It's all theoretical until the art is sold. Then we'll know. In the meantime, we may as well say $10M as $1M...both equally meaningless.

[Mark 1]

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

 

This is an interesting point but speculation here is not without historical data to use as a basis to form an educated guess on the final hammer price.

 

Looking at the prices attained for some much lesser titles, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe an astronomical number (as the others on that list) could be attained.

 

 

It's all theoretical until the art is sold. Then we'll know. In the meantime, we may as well say $10M as $1M...both equally meaningless.

 

We know that...that's obvious. It's interesting to debate it.

[Nexus]

I am constantly amazed at how easily people can throw around huge numbers when speculating on value, and I can't help but feel that a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of us, when speculating on such things, are nowhere near being in a position to make such a purchase, and so it's akin to valuation with Monopoly money. It might be easy enough to say that xyz should be worth $1M...but there is a HUGE difference between speculation when you don't have it, and spending it on comic art when you do.

 

This is an interesting point but speculation here is not without historical data to use as a basis to form an educated guess on the final hammer price.

 

Looking at the prices attained for some much lesser titles, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe an astronomical number (as the others on that list) could be attained.

 

 

It's all theoretical until the art is sold. Then we'll know. In the meantime, we may as well say $10M as $1M...both equally meaningless.

 

We know that...that's obvious. It's interesting to debate it.

 

Sure...my reaction is more to the "$1M" that's been proposed, a value that has no basis. But following your thought...there are no modern titles on that list. It's not because there are no worthy moderns. It's more fundamental than that-- the current buyers at the level simply don't spend that kind of money on (relatively) new stuff.

 

There are galleries on CAF that feature art similar to what you'll find on that list. You know what you are unlikely to find in those galleries? Yup...modern OA. If any modern OA is there, you can bet no one paid six figures for it.

 

Therefore, what buyers have been willing to spend for those vintage pieces has no bearing on FMV for modern art.

 

Seems to me like the guys who buy new art are younger and, more importantly, READ new books. That's not the typical BSD OA collector we have now, who, for the most part, collects for nostalgia.

 

That may all change in time (20 years?), but for now, I don't believe it's useful to try to peg WD #1's value to anything on that list. Unless you're the seller, in which case, you absolutely want to sell the argument that WD #1 is more important than ASM #328!

[jjeanius]

But then, you'd also have to sell the argument that ASM 328 was actually worth even a fraction of that final bid!

[krazykris7]

Just started rereading the walking dead and noticed in Issue 2 on page 8 Rick mentions a doc stevens funny... because doc stevens was the name of the doctor in woodbury right?

[Mark 1]

My feeling on this quite honestly is if McFarland's $328 cover and the SM 1 cover sold for that much money when they (are close to modern books)...then WD could as well.

 

Now, the history of ASM is undeniable. I don't think WD 1 OA would sell for a million but I definitely think 400-500k would be possible now or even in 10 years.

 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

[Nexus]

My feeling on this quite honestly is if McFarland's $328 cover and the SM 1 cover sold for that much money when they (are close to modern books)...then WD could as well.

 

Now, the history of ASM is undeniable. I don't think WD 1 OA would sell for a million but I definitely think 400-500k would be possible now or even in 10 years.

 

Just my opinion.

 

If there really is $400K-500K for this cover NOW, then it's not coming from the hobby. It will be someone from outside the hobby who would pony up an amount that will be the second or third highest ever for any piece of American comic art. That would, btw, likely be a first, as most everything on the current list has been bought by established collectors. And I only say "likely" because some buyers haven't been verified...my bet, though, is that everything was bought by known collectors.

 

I'll grant you that in 10 years time, things may be different, and there may be a crazy WD fan who enters the hobby in the interim who will be the one to pay that much. But that's also assuming the OA market stays the course...which is no sure thing.

 

For right now, though, the pieces don't fit for a $400K-500K sale: Current BSD collectors don't pay up for modern art. Modern collectors don't spend six figures on individual pieces (let along mid-six figures). I'm not saying it's impossible...just highly, highly unlikely.

 

Not that this means anything, either, but I compare the WD phenomenon to TMNT in the '80s. The entire TMNT #1 issue, cover and interiors, sold for $250K circa 2007. Admittedly, a totally imperfect "comp"...just throwing it out there for fun.

[Mark 1]

My feeling on this quite honestly is if McFarland's $328 cover and the SM 1 cover sold for that much money when they (are close to modern books)...then WD could as well.

 

Now, the history of ASM is undeniable. I don't think WD 1 OA would sell for a million but I definitely think 400-500k would be possible now or even in 10 years.

 

Just my opinion.

 

If there really is $400K-500K for this cover NOW, then it's not coming from the hobby. It will be someone from outside the hobby who would pony up an amount that will be the second or third highest ever for any piece of American comic art. That would, btw, likely be a first, as most everything on the current list has been bought by established collectors. And I only say "likely" because some buyers haven't been verified...my bet, though, is that everything was bought by known collectors.

 

I'll grant you that in 10 years time, things may be different, and there may be a crazy WD fan who enters the hobby in the interim who will be the one to pay that much. But that's also assuming the OA market stays the course...which is no sure thing.

 

For right now, though, the pieces don't fit for a $400K-500K sale: Current BSD collectors don't pay up for modern art. Modern collectors don't spend six figures on individual pieces (let along mid-six figures). I'm not saying it's impossible...just highly, highly unlikely.

 

Not that this means anything, either, but I compare the WD phenomenon to TMNT in the '80s. The entire TMNT #1 issue, cover and interiors, sold for $250K circa 2007. Admittedly, a totally imperfect "comp"...just throwing it out there for fun.

 

I agree and was thinking about someone outside of the hobby who would pony up to buy it. Someone like a rock star (Rob Zombie, Kirk Hammett) is possible.

 

It's fun to speculate. I'd love to see it happen!

[retrothecollector]

If I was a millionaire and hit the lottery. I sure as hell would pay $1,000,000 for that WD #1 cover. And I wouldn't even blink an eye.

 

It doesn't even matter when your stinking filthy rich. People pay dumb amounts of money for dumb stuff. Just look at what the rapper dude bought his daughter, a Barbie house made of real diamonds. That's stupid.

 

But the cover to WD #1 that's not dumb.

[The_Drek_Police]

If I was a millionaire and hit the lottery. I sure as hell would pay $1,000,000 for that WD #1 cover. And I wouldn't even blink an eye.

 

It doesn't even matter when your stinking filthy rich. People pay dumb amounts of money for dumb stuff. Just look at what the rapper dude bought his daughter, a Barbie house made of real diamonds. That's stupid.

 

But the cover to WD #1 that's not dumb.

 

If I won the lottery, I still wouldn't pay million for it.

 

I rather pay $50k for a heist and keep the cover to myself in secret.

[retrothecollector]

If I was a millionaire and hit the lottery. I sure as hell would pay $1,000,000 for that WD #1 cover. And I wouldn't even blink an eye.

 

It doesn't even matter when your stinking filthy rich. People pay dumb amounts of money for dumb stuff. Just look at what the rapper dude bought his daughter, a Barbie house made of real diamonds. That's stupid.

 

But the cover to WD #1 that's not dumb.

 

If I won the lottery, I still wouldn't pay million for it.

 

I rather pay $50k for a heist and keep the cover to myself in secret.

 

Yes this!!!! Too Funny

[@Captain_Sawyer]

Preview of tomorrow's issue!!

 

 

 

[Mark 1]

I refuse to look