The Official The Walking Dead Discussion Thread 13 13

[JS]

I hear you a little JS.......sometimes it all art for me and sometimes its where the moment brings me in the AO. It brings me to the story where Rick wakes up and has not ideal what he's in for. When he came out of his coma it was like the readers did to. We start our trip with Rick not knowing how or why the world has changed. Its the start of a puzzle. Sometimes I see the moment more than the art. There are times when the art is all the page has going for it.But for me this page has both..IMO....btw I think its his second appearance

 

i mean its got some horror elements to it - the idea of waking up in a hospital bed alone is scary and a good way to set off the present in the book - its just pretty vanilla, art-wise is all -

 

i feel like for 8 grand, the art side of the piece should be more than whats given -

 

 

 

 

[Mark 1]

For me, 8k is about double what a single interior page from #1 is worth. Even for the WD and a number 1, 1st splash of Rick. I'd rather buy a cover to an other issue for that much money.

 

I feel a page like that is somewhere in the 3-4k range and that's the super high end of the value.

 

It's a really cool page to have and I'd love to own it but the asking price is too much IMHO.

[N/A]

There are very few covers I would buy over that page. Sometimes collectors get awestruck by covers.

[maloney414]

19 9.9's...500+ 9.8's....but only 1 of these...just got'er back yesterday..

 

WOW! WHITE pages is great for a .5

[Phill the Governor]

It's a really cool page to have and I'd love to own it but the asking price is too much IMHO.

 

 

It was a selling price though, not an asking price.

 

 

The page was most likely not purchased because the owner loved the image of Rick laying in a bed. James is right in saying it's the provenance of the piece that makes it desirable. It may be only Rick laying in a bed, but it is the beginning of the story as we know it.

 

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

 

 

[comicsnyc22]

I just looked in the census. There are currently 19 9.9s for #1 which corresponds roughly to the number of OA pages. Value-wise, it looks like a #1 9.9 goes for about the same price as a #1 OA page. Obviously, the people who only collect slabs will want the 9.9 just as the people who only collect art will want the OA. But for those who collect both...which would you choose if they both cost the same and you could only have one?

 

Total no-brainer. I'd take the OA any day. Grading is such a crapshoot. I've seen two 9.9's that look like 9.8's, and even without that, the difference is minimal. I've never been a grade chaser and I definitely wouldn't be one over the chance to own some OA from #1.

[comicsnyc22]

It's a beautiful page, and probably the earliest that'll ever be on sale unless page one surfaces. Not much to it, but it's the start of the WD continuity as we know it.

 

really? i said my piece on the page when it was on ebay - 8k for that page is insanity - its got zero going for it other than the first appearance. its got little-to-nothing to do with the theme of twd. no zombies, no action, and its not even an interesting scene..its literally rick, laying down in a bed. the coolest part of it is how tony draws the hair on his legs. 8k for hairy-legged rick in a bed?

 

 

 

 

The fact that it's a page from issue #1? That brings a whole new level of interest/value to the page. I think case in point was the issue 19 OA with Michonne. The page 3 art was 1000x better, but went less than page #1. Art/quality vs. significance?

 

Edited December 30, 2013 by ComicsNYC22

[Sensei Ryan]

I just looked in the census. There are currently 19 9.9s for #1 which corresponds roughly to the number of OA pages. Value-wise, it looks like a #1 9.9 goes for about the same price as a #1 OA page. Obviously, the people who only collect slabs will want the 9.9 just as the people who only collect art will want the OA. But for those who collect both...which would you choose if they both cost the same and you could only have one?

 

And don't forget the nuts that have to have the black and white in 9.9

 

Not only a universal black and white in 9.9, but (gasp) a yellow label black AND white 9.9, too! You must own all 4!!!

[bffnut]

[Nexus]

I just looked in the census. There are currently 19 9.9s for #1 which corresponds roughly to the number of OA pages. Value-wise, it looks like a #1 9.9 goes for about the same price as a #1 OA page. Obviously, the people who only collect slabs will want the 9.9 just as the people who only collect art will want the OA. But for those who collect both...which would you choose if they both cost the same and you could only have one?

 

Total no-brainer. I'd take the OA any day. Grading is such a crapshoot. I've seen two 9.9's that look like 9.8's, and even without that, the difference is minimal. I've never been a grade chaser and I definitely wouldn't be one over the chance to own some OA from #1.

 

Here's what's interesting: I asked this same question a year ago. Back then, the majority chose the 9.9, citing (among other reasons) the small number of them on the census (around 10, iirc). A year later, there are 19 in the census. Is that the main reason OA is now the unanimous pick?

 

Another question: What's the difference in price between a 9.8 and a 9.9 for #1? My hunch is that for the cost of a 9.9, you could have a 9.8 AND some nice OA. With the only difference being some microscopic defect that you can't see and have to take someone else's word for. Essentially, the tradeoff is some OA in exchange for a tiny, imperceptible defect. That'd be a no-brainer to me, too, if I collected both slabs and OA.

 

OK, so I looked it up: 90 day GPA average is approximately $2000 for a 9.8 and $12000 for a 9.9-- a difference of $10K. That $10K can buy a lot of OA, even OA from #1. You can get a cover (or two!). For the average cost of a 9.9, you could have gotten a 9.8 plus one of those 1st appearance Michonne pages from eBay a month ago. And STILL have a couple thousand left over.

 

Obviously, if you can afford it all, then this is a moot issue. For everyone else weighing the pros and cons of a 9.9, it may something to think about.

 

Anyhow, I'll ask this question again a year from now. Let's see if this trend continues.

 

 

[Nexus]

It's a really cool page to have and I'd love to own it but the asking price is too much IMHO.

 

 

It was a selling price though, not an asking price.

 

 

The page was most likely not purchased because the owner loved the image of Rick laying in a bed. James is right in saying it's the provenance of the piece that makes it desirable. It may be only Rick laying in a bed, but it is the beginning of the story as we know it.

 

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

 

 

We evaluate OA with very different criteria than other art. Devoid of context, this is merely a simple pen/ink drawing of a dude in a hospital bed. To someone who doesn't know what it represents, sure, it's a boring scene. But for WD fans, this page from #1 has importance. At the very least, for the reasons that you list. To fixate on, for example, leg hair, is to have a very superficial grasp of OA. To not understand that OA is rarely valued solely for the quality of the illustration, is to not understand the OA market.

 

As a parallel, the first page from WATCHMEN #1 was sold at Heritage a few years ago. Taken on its own, it's not an exciting page. There's no action. There are no main characters. And yet, it sold for the highest amount for an interior WM page at auction. It still hasn't been topped.

 

I'm not saying I would have bought those pages for the prices they sold for, or that I wouldn't prefer other examples. But I get why there are others who would.

[Phill the Governor]

It's a really cool page to have and I'd love to own it but the asking price is too much IMHO.

 

 

It was a selling price though, not an asking price.

 

 

The page was most likely not purchased because the owner loved the image of Rick laying in a bed. James is right in saying it's the provenance of the piece that makes it desirable. It may be only Rick laying in a bed, but it is the beginning of the story as we know it.

 

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

 

 

We evaluate OA with very different criteria than other art. Devoid of context, this is merely a simple pen/ink drawing of a dude in a hospital bed. To someone who doesn't know what it represents, sure, it's a boring scene. But for WD fans, this page from #1 has importance. At the very least, for the reasons that you list. To fixate on, for example, leg hair, is to have a very superficial grasp of OA. To not understand that OA is rarely valued solely for the quality of the illustration, is to not understand the OA market.

 

As a parallel, the first page from WATCHMEN #1 was sold at Heritage a few years ago. Taken on its own, it's not an exciting page. There's no action. There are no main characters. And yet, it sold for the highest amount for an interior WM page at auction. It still hasn't been topped.

 

I'm not saying I would have bought those pages for the prices they sold for, or that I wouldn't prefer other examples. But I get why there are others who would.

 

 

Me too.

 

And this is what I was trying to stress. People are going to have different tastes because of the subjective nature of art. Some people will ultimately want art because it's from a certain point in a story; because it was from the first issue - or the last issue; because it's a splash page; or because it was from climax of their favorite story arc. I bought my two pages from issue 65 because I loved the scene. It's only after owning them for a few years now that I noticed that more than half the art isn't considered "ideal" by many collectors. There's only a few panels with main characters, no zombies, ect. More than half the art depicts C level characters. But I wanted that scene. I wanted to have that part of the story on my wall.

 

I said this before:

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

I still think this is true. I'd also say, however, that in terms of context, it's still a page from issue #1 so most collectors will likely want to own art from a #1 issue that they like. That's all it takes to have a price like 8k for this splash, or (15K?) for the Watchmen page IIRC..

[JS]

It's a really cool page to have and I'd love to own it but the asking price is too much IMHO.

 

 

It was a selling price though, not an asking price.

 

 

The page was most likely not purchased because the owner loved the image of Rick laying in a bed. James is right in saying it's the provenance of the piece that makes it desirable. It may be only Rick laying in a bed, but it is the beginning of the story as we know it.

 

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

 

 

We evaluate OA with very different criteria than other art. Devoid of context, this is merely a simple pen/ink drawing of a dude in a hospital bed. To someone who doesn't know what it represents, sure, it's a boring scene. But for WD fans, this page from #1 has importance. At the very least, for the reasons that you list. To fixate on, for example, leg hair, is to have a very superficial grasp of OA. To not understand that OA is rarely valued solely for the quality of the illustration, is to not understand the OA market.

 

As a parallel, the first page from WATCHMEN #1 was sold at Heritage a few years ago. Taken on its own, it's not an exciting page. There's no action. There are no main characters. And yet, it sold for the highest amount for an interior WM page at auction. It still hasn't been topped.

 

I'm not saying I would have bought those pages for the prices they sold for, or that I wouldn't prefer other examples. But I get why there are others who would.

 

 

Me too.

 

And this is what I was trying to stress. People are going to have different tastes because of the subjective nature of art. Some people will ultimately want art because it's from a certain point in a story; because it was from the first issue - or the last issue; because it's a splash page; or because it was from climax of their favorite story arc. I bought my two pages from issue 65 because I loved the scene. It's only after owning them for a few years now that I noticed that more than half the art isn't considered "ideal" by many collectors. There's only a few panels with main characters, no zombies, ect. More than half the art depicts C level characters. But I wanted that scene. I wanted to have that part of the story on my wall.

 

I said this before:

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

I still think this is true. I'd also say, however, that in terms of context, it's still a page from issue #1 so most collectors will likely want to own art from a #1 issue that they like. That's all it takes to have a price like 8k for this splash, or (15K?) for the Watchmen page IIRC..

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/12/us/francis-bacon-painting-art-auction/

 

same points I make..142 million bucks on a painting that looks like an 8 year old painted it...but to each their own

[Guardian Comics]

James: Just checked your set and your #48 is a lowly 9.8

 

Look what's in here

 

 

 

Jim (whose just looking for excuses to post this pic again ad nauseum)

 

Edited December 30, 2013 by cgcworld

[James J]

Trade you.

[comicsnyc22]

James: Just checked your set and your #48 is a lowly 9.8

 

Look what's in here

 

 

 

Jim (whose just looking for excuses to post this pic again ad nauseum)

 

Still one of the best framed piece i've seen on the boards.

[Nexus]

I said this before:

In terms of content, however, I think some of you are right in thinking that for 8k one could get some much better art.

 

Of course. For $50 you could get much better art, let alone for $8K. But as we both understand, nobody buys OA for the sake of the art alone. (At least nobody who gets the hobby and the market.) If someone's looking for photo-realism or anatomical accuracy (or whatever artistic standard they may have that is largely irrelevant to OA), they could do a lot better for their money than comic art. Frankly, any price collectors pay for WD OA is going to be seen as "insanity" by 99.999% of the general public (as well as those with a limited understanding of this very specialized market).

 

I still think this is true. I'd also say, however, that in terms of context, it's still a page from issue #1 so most collectors will likely want to own art from a #1 issue that they like. That's all it takes to have a price like 8k for this splash, or (15K?) for the Watchmen page IIRC..

 

Here's the WATCHMEN #1 page:

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7027&lotNo=92232

 

Sold in Nov. 2010 for $33,460. There have been other pages that have sold for more privately, but this remains the highest amount paid publicly for a WM interior. While what a WM page sells for has nothing to do with what a WD page will sell for, this does demonstrate the premium the hobby places on pages from #1 issues. Personally, I'll go for a page I Iike better from a later issue, but there's no denying that this premium exists, and there's no surprise to longtime observers when they see collectors pay it.

[James J]

Hero replied :

 

 

We gave one to each artist, except Stuart Sayger and Todd Nauck, who did two.

 

 

We have no idea if Image gave comps to employees.

 

 

 

Thank you for your support!

 

 

 

[James J]

Hero replied :

 

 

We gave one to each artist, except Stuart Sayger and Todd Nauck, who did two.

 

 

We have no idea if Image gave comps to employees.

 

 

 

Thank you for your support!

 

 

 

I did a follow up email today...waiting for reply.

If Hero did only give one to each artist then maybe the employees at Image were using the two covers per artist as smoke and mirrors to cover there tracks.

So far based on what I have gathered Image is the one that leaked the blanks into the market. Or at the very least allowed it to happen.But in fairness I will wait for Hero to reply one more time and see if anyone at Image will reply to my email. I'm surprised Image would release blank Hero stamped covers into the market without any thought. But for now this is all IMO.....even thought the collection of emails points their way.

[ebtorres]

Hero replied :

 

 

We gave one to each artist, except Stuart Sayger and Todd Nauck, who did two.

 

 

We have no idea if Image gave comps to employees.

 

 

 

Thank you for your support!

 

 

 

I did a follow up email today...waiting for reply.

If Hero did only give one to each artist then maybe the employees at Image were using the two covers per artist as smoke and mirrors to cover there tracks.

So far based on what I have gathered Image is the one that leaked the blanks into the market. Or at the very least allowed it to happen.But in fairness I will wait for Hero to reply one more time and see if anyone at Image will reply to my email. I'm surprised Image would release blank Hero stamped covers into the market without any thought. But for now this is all IMO.....even thought the collection of emails points their way.