Showcase #4

[innocuous]

Saw that a CGC 4.0 brought $4,250 on eBay the other day. That a bit over 150% of guide.

 

S

 

 

I just got my keeper a few months ago from a board member for a lot less.

[Silver]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

[tth2]

I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247.

[Aman619]

for me, its: BB28, S4 then far below ADV247. your mileage may (and apparently does) vary. It will be interesting though if in a few years both the Avengers and JLA movies get made and spawn sequels whether these team book first appearances will jump as individual hero's books have always done in the hype. I know there was some flurry earlier this year on JLA stuff, but Im talking pushing the 9.4s up to the 150K area (with actual sales)

 

 

[metropoliscomics]

From my perspective, the most important S.A. DCs are:

 

1. Showcase #4

2. Showcase #4

3. Showcase #22

4. Flash #123

5. B&B #28

 

Stephen

 

 

[JohnT]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

 

That seems surprising. Any particular reason it leaves you flat?

[Silver]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

 

That seems surprising. Any particular reason it leaves you flat?

 

I guess because the book really didn't do anything. It really didn't start the silver age. Nothing changed in the months following Showcase 4. Overstreet seems to think all of comicdom magically changed after Showcase 4. Superman 108 is not silver age, Superman 109 is? Superboy 51 is not silver age, and Superboy 52 is? I just don't get it.

 

Did the publishing of Showcase 4 even result in the Flash's return to his own book? Heck that was three years later. Lois Lane appeared in Showcase 9 and 10 and got her own book before the Flash!

 

Why isn't the return of the the Timely heroes as important? Retooled from the golden age to be the big commie fighters weren't they before the Flash?

 

And I have said it before, super heroes were almost continuosly published through the early 50's. The Fawcett heroes, Plastic Man, etc.

 

So which book really influenced the silver age more...Showcase 4 or FF1? Which book influenced FF1 more BB 28 or Showcase 4?

 

Oh, and Flash 123 as one of the most important silver age books?

 

Detective's 327 with Batman's "new look" is more important.

 

I just think the book is severly overrated. That's all.

 

 

[tonytiger]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

 

That seems surprising. Any particular reason it leaves you flat?

 

I guess because the book really didn't do anything. It really didn't start the silver age. Nothing changed in the months following Showcase 4. Overstreet seems to think all of comicdom magically changed after Showcase 4. Superman 108 is not silver age, Superman 109 is? Superboy 51 is not silver age, and Superboy 52 is? I just don't get it.

 

Did the publishing of Showcase 4 even result in the Flash's return to his own book? Heck that was three years later. Lois Lane appeared in Showcase 9 and 10 and got her own book before the Flash!

 

Why isn't the return of the the Timely heroes as important? Retooled from the golden age to be the big commie fighters weren't they before the Flash?

 

And I have said it before, super heroes were almost continuosly published through the early 50's. The Fawcett heroes, Plastic Man, etc.

 

So which book really influenced the silver age more...Showcase 4 or FF1? Which book influenced FF1 more BB 28 or Showcase 4?

 

Oh, and Flash 123 as one of the most important silver age books?

 

Detective's 327 with Batman's "new look" is more important.

 

I just think the book is severly overrated. That's all.

 

 

There is so much wrong here, I don't even know where to begin.

 

Tony

 

 

[Silver]

go for it.

[JohnT]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

 

That seems surprising. Any particular reason it leaves you flat?

 

I guess because the book really didn't do anything. It really didn't start the silver age. Nothing changed in the months following Showcase 4. Overstreet seems to think all of comicdom magically changed after Showcase 4. Superman 108 is not silver age, Superman 109 is? Superboy 51 is not silver age, and Superboy 52 is? I just don't get it.

 

Did the publishing of Showcase 4 even result in the Flash's return to his own book? Heck that was three years later. Lois Lane appeared in Showcase 9 and 10 and got her own book before the Flash!

 

Why isn't the return of the the Timely heroes as important? Retooled from the golden age to be the big commie fighters weren't they before the Flash?

 

And I have said it before, super heroes were almost continuosly published through the early 50's. The Fawcett heroes, Plastic Man, etc.

 

So which book really influenced the silver age more...Showcase 4 or FF1? Which book influenced FF1 more BB 28 or Showcase 4?

 

Oh, and Flash 123 as one of the most important silver age books?

 

Detective's 327 with Batman's "new look" is more important.

 

I just think the book is severly overrated. That's all.

 

 

I agree that Showcase 4 didn't appear and then the next day the world was different. The SA took a while to get going. Also, I would agree that it wasn't the Flash as a character that opened the door. It wasn't like Flash hysteria swept the country.

 

However, Showcase 4 was certainly the beginning of the SA, if not the cause. The Timely retools and the Fawcett characters, or whatever superheros might have been out there in 1956, aren't the point. The point is that the SA was a DC creation, and the key turning point in them going in that direction was Showcase 4. It may not have done anything, but it is the point where you can look back and see that something was starting to happen.

[Aman619]

and it led directly to Flash 105.... but conservative DC had to test it again and again, in #8, 13 and 14 before they were finaly sure enough to gamble it.

 

 

I agree about Superman 108 and 109 etc etc, but, Its hard enough getting people to agree on when ages started without having teh settled upon date bounce around from title to title right? So an arbitrary month works for me absent a real content turning point.

[tth2]

for me, its: BB28, S4 then far below ADV247. your mileage may (and apparently does) vary.

You know I was just being cheeky, right?

[tth2]

Steve, what's up with this statement in the ComicConnect Newsletter that just got sent out:

 

" 'Showcase #4 is extremely rare in high-grade. This particular one is the only known Near Mint condition copy in existence,' explained Stephen Fishler."

 

Uh, Steve, there actually IS another Near Mint copy, it's been certified by CGC and is owned by Michael Goldman. In fact, it's a 9.6 NM+. I hope you're not going to claim that your statement is accurate because the other copy isn't a "NM", it's a "NM+".

[Aman619]

for me, its: BB28, S4 then far below ADV247. your mileage may (and apparently does) vary.

You know I was just being cheeky, right?

 

the BB was cheeky sure, but adding 247?? Krazy!

[frankiecastle]

Steve, what's up with this statement in the ComicConnect Newsletter that just got sent out:

 

" 'Showcase #4 is extremely rare in high-grade. This particular one is the only known Near Mint condition copy in existence,' explained Stephen Fishler."

 

Uh, Steve, there actually IS another Near Mint copy, it's been certified by CGC and is owned by Michael Goldman. In fact, it's a 9.6 NM+. I hope you're not going to claim that your statement is accurate because the other copy isn't a "NM", it's a "NM+".

 

bring on the semantics police- technically, it's the only known NM if you define NM as CGC 9.4 and not CGC 9.4 and higher.

[Silver]

BIG 5 collectors have known for a long time that OOAW 81 is not the real first appearance of SGT. Rock, and OOAW 83 is. There were many books that were "proto-types" of SGT. Rock. Overstreet said OOAW 81 was the first appearance, so most of the collecting community regarded it as such. It doesn't change the fact that OOAW 83 is really the first appearance and that GI Combat 45, 68 and several others were just books leading up to SGT. Rock's first appearance.

 

I personally feel the same way about the silver age and Showcase 4. Showcase 4 started something, but the silver age didn't start with its publication....but Overstreet says it does.

 

Showcase 4, 8, 14 etc. eventually lead to BB 28. Brave and the Bold 28 in 1960 quite possibly influenced the Marvel age of comics, which has got to be more significant than the single appearance of the Flash in 1956...which remember didn't really change anything then. Comics kept coming out after Showcase 4 that weren’t different at all than the way they had been, and didn't change much for several years. I have a bunch of DC books from 1956-1960, I know this.

 

Even today OOAW 81 is valued higher in OS although they finally note that 83 is the TRUE 1st appearance of SGT. Rock. How long did it take for them to get that right? So my point is that just because they say that the month Showcase 4 came out is the start of the silver age, doesn't mean it's so.

 

Just my opinion

 

[Aman619]

course not. The world didnt change that month. So you pick a month. Or an event that kicked off the Silver Age. To me It doesnt really bother me how the hobby (or Overstreet) has defined the process to date. Its always going to be arbitrary.

 

But it makes sense to me that Showcase 4 began a change in comics that culminated in a wave or resurgence of superheroes in comics. And that the reappearance of the Flash, as opposed to a few short lived or minor superhero strips (by DC and the others) was a greater catalyst than the rest as he was a major player in the DC Universe, and was rewarded with his own title that lasted for another 25 years.

 

We celebrate July 4th as the start of the USA, but, aside from a daring letter to the boss, it didnt change anything. But the day the war ended isnt celebrated as the beginning of America, nor the raification of the Constitution nor the election of GW etc which really solidified the US.. Had we lost he war (i.e. the book been cancelled) nobody would care what day the Declaration was signed. But because of what followed, we have chosen that day as the beginning.

 

whaddayagonnado?

 

also, and I know we have all argued all this before, you cant ignoe the sequence of GA and SA, and what these terms refer to when applied to comics. Theres more than the sense that superheroes came back. DC brought back the SAME GA superheroes! THATS the real key to Flash's reappearance that has a significance that Martian Manhunter, Captain Comet, The Fly etc do NOT carry. The Golden Age crashed and burned. then Comics went thru all the genres it could think of looking for hits. Then in the late 50s they tried superheroes again. They trotted out Barry Allen. It clicked. They added GL, Atom, Hawkman etc etc (all familiar names) as well as lots of newer ideas rooted in the 50s and 60s issues of the day. Then Marvel took over and really shook it up big.

 

Showcase 4 may not be the most exciting book today, nor a sea change in thinking like 9/11, or Action 1, but it fits the bill

[TeddieMercede]

It seems this discussion comes up every once in a while but I am surprised someone who seems to be such a big DC Silver Age fan fails to acknowledge the impact of Showcase 4. That argument seems to be reserved for Marvel collectors who are attempting to tout how much more powerful Marvel was vs DC in the Silver Age.

 

In terms of the direct impact how about getting the impression by someone who actually bought this book off the stands. Our very own Burntboy can speak of the excitement that occurred when he saw this issue and how different it was at the time compared to the Bat and Superman books which continued publication. Obviously it left a lasting impact as shown by the incredible copy he posted in this thread.

 

I think the best reasoning of the impact of Showcase 4 was posted by our very own Adam Strange:

 

" They've been longer threads on this subject so here are just a few thoughts:

 

There isn't a bright line delineating the start and end of any age. Even if you agree that GA starts with Action 1, that doesn't mean that all books from all publishers changed that same month. Nor is their agreement on when the GA ended and whether there is such a thing as an Atomic Age.

 

BTW, the trend toward "heroic" characters-driven comics was not limited to just superheros. Sgt Rock, Haunted Tank, Gunner & Sarge were all created in the war titles. Mark Merlin was started in House of Secrets to move it away from being an anthology series. Super Chief (half superhero/half western) was created in the last 3 issues of All Star Western.

 

In order for a comic to start an age it has to inspire and have a noticeable success. There's no evidence I'm aware of a creator being contemporaneously inspired by Martian Manhunter, much less comic fans declaring him "favorite hero" or handing out awards to the creative team. Nor was it very successful judging by the fact that it received top billing on a comic starting only in June 1964. He didn't make a cover appearance until B&B 28.

 

It's not significant that Flash waited a couple years to get his own title. Superman's second cover appearance was Action 7, his third Action 10. Basically, DC had burned out on publishing anything but Supe, Bats, and WW and only the finalizing of the sales results induced them to run a second and a third trial. Results came in 3 months following the distribution date after which the decision was made to do any Flash story -- which would have taken a month today. That's why there's at least a 4 month gap between the first 3 appearances of Flash.

 

Challengers wasn't a superhero but just a Kirby version of the adventure stories like DC had in My Greatest Adv and Tales of the Unexp. I suspect that was the reason it got the green light for a solo title.

 

Flash was a re-interpretation of the original GA Flash with a science fiction twist. That was the pattern for GL, Atom, Hawkman etc. B&B 28 was the natural evolution of the All Star/ Justice Society concept for the new heroes. Even the Marvel hero origins were science fiction based, though with the Kirby/Lee/Ditko spin loved by Marvel zombies and others. The creators and fans all noticed the difference in super-heros before Flash and after Flash, and gave awards to Schwartz/Infantino/Anderson. There were superheros created/revived throughout the 50s but the one that "stuck" was the Flash. "

[tth2]

BIG 5 collectors have known for a long time that OOAW 81 is not the real first appearance of SGT. Rock, and OOAW 83 is. There were many books that were "proto-types" of SGT. Rock. Overstreet said OOAW 81 was the first appearance, so most of the collecting community regarded it as such. It doesn't change the fact that OOAW 83 is really the first appearance and that GI Combat 45, 68 and several others were just books leading up to SGT. Rock's first appearance.

All I can say to this is that it`s not just Bob Overstreet. JOE KUBERT believes that OOAW 81 was the first Sgt. Rock.

 

I personally feel the same way about the silver age and Showcase 4. Showcase 4 started something, but the silver age didn't start with its publication....but Overstreet says it does.

 

Showcase 4, 8, 14 etc. eventually lead to BB 28. Brave and the Bold 28 in 1960 quite possibly influenced the Marvel age of comics, which has got to be more significant than the single appearance of the Flash in 1956...which remember didn't really change anything then. Comics kept coming out after Showcase 4 that weren’t different at all than the way they had been, and didn't change much for several years. I have a bunch of DC books from 1956-1960, I know this.

You`re applying a 21st-century mindset to 1956. The ability to get instant feedback, and then apply that feedback to the publication process, was infinitely slower back then than it is today. The fact that they got out another Flash book 4 issues later is hugely impressive to me, and then were confident enough to get out 2 more issues 5 issues later.

 

You could say that B&B 28 was the real turning point that ensured the Silver Age was here to stay, but even the most diehard B&B 28 fans would have to acknowledge that B&B 28 owes its existence to Showcase 4.

[batman_fan]

Yes it's still one of the top SA books. It will always be the start of the SA and thus a mega key, so I don't think it's a risky buy. But will it skyrocket? Who knows.

 

There will always be many more people looking for a AF15 and FF1, but then there are many more copies of those available.

 

I'm looking for a decent 3.5-4.0 myself. If you're into SA DC it's the grail to shoot for.

 

I dunno, I think it depends on your collecting interests. I would personally rather have a BB 28 or Adventure 247. The book just does not get me excited, and I am as into SA DC as anyone.

 

Investment POV? AF 15 in any grade, any day.

 

That seems surprising. Any particular reason it leaves you flat?

 

I guess because the book really didn't do anything. It really didn't start the silver age. Nothing changed in the months following Showcase 4. Overstreet seems to think all of comicdom magically changed after Showcase 4. Superman 108 is not silver age, Superman 109 is? Superboy 51 is not silver age, and Superboy 52 is? I just don't get it.

 

Did the publishing of Showcase 4 even result in the Flash's return to his own book? Heck that was three years later. Lois Lane appeared in Showcase 9 and 10 and got her own book before the Flash!

 

Why isn't the return of the the Timely heroes as important? Retooled from the golden age to be the big commie fighters weren't they before the Flash?

 

And I have said it before, super heroes were almost continuosly published through the early 50's. The Fawcett heroes, Plastic Man, etc.

 

So which book really influenced the silver age more...Showcase 4 or FF1? Which book influenced FF1 more BB 28 or Showcase 4?

 

Oh, and Flash 123 as one of the most important silver age books?

 

Detective's 327 with Batman's "new look" is more important.

 

I just think the book is severly overrated. That's all.

 

 

can we please throw Detective 225 in there as well, mostover rated, over priced low demand DC "key"