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Showcase #4

Started by thedude,

427 posts in this topic

Flash105

Flash105

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Posted
Is this book still one of the top books in the Silver Age ?

 

I remember it was pretty hot in the 90's, but now seems to have cooled off a bit.

 

what's the future of this book ? I was thinking about picking up a decent copy, but if I'm going to be wasting my money (long term), I can always find more GA to buy instead. :cloud9:

 

just wondering.

 

This thread has gotten so off topic. Above is the initial question. It just so happened during this discussion that Pedigree had as nice a 4.0 that you would ever see. Mark sold it for 4250.00. The last 4.0 sold for 2577.00 in 2006. That about ends the talk about whether this book can make you money. If you bring a issue that doesn't look like a dog mess on it, it will sell and get a good price.

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thedude

thedude

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Is this book still one of the top books in the Silver Age ?

 

I remember it was pretty hot in the 90's, but now seems to have cooled off a bit.

 

what's the future of this book ? I was thinking about picking up a decent copy, but if I'm going to be wasting my money (long term), I can always find more GA to buy instead. :cloud9:

 

just wondering.

 

This thread has gotten so off topic. Above is the initial question. It just so happened during this discussion that Pedigree had as nice a 4.0 that you would ever see. Mark sold it for 4250.00. The last 4.0 sold for 2577.00 in 2006. That about ends the talk about whether this book can make you money. If you bring a issue that doesn't look like a dog mess on it, it will sell and get a good price.

 

I don't mind one bit the course this thread has taken, as was my original intention to see what people think about Showcase #4 in today's market and whether or not it's still a major SA Key, I would have loved to snap up that 4.0 copy Mark sold on eBay, I was watching it, but in the end, I'm not quite into a big buying mode right now.

 

but I do plan to get one, someday.

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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BIG 5 collectors have known for a long time that OOAW 81 is not the real first appearance of SGT. Rock, and OOAW 83 is. There were many books that were "proto-types" of SGT. Rock. Overstreet said OOAW 81 was the first appearance, so most of the collecting community regarded it as such. It doesn't change the fact that OOAW 83 is really the first appearance and that GI Combat 45, 68 and several others were just books leading up to SGT. Rock's first appearance.

All I can say to this is that it`s not just Bob Overstreet. JOE KUBERT believes that OOAW 81 was the first Sgt. Rock. (shrug)

 

I personally feel the same way about the silver age and Showcase 4. Showcase 4 started something, but the silver age didn't start with its publication....but Overstreet says it does.

 

Showcase 4, 8, 14 etc. eventually lead to BB 28. Brave and the Bold 28 in 1960 quite possibly influenced the Marvel age of comics, which has got to be more significant than the single appearance of the Flash in 1956...which remember didn't really change anything then. Comics kept coming out after Showcase 4 that weren’t different at all than the way they had been, and didn't change much for several years. I have a bunch of DC books from 1956-1960, I know this.

You`re applying a 21st-century mindset to 1956. The ability to get instant feedback, and then apply that feedback to the publication process, was infinitely slower back then than it is today. The fact that they got out another Flash book 4 issues later is hugely impressive to me, and then were confident enough to get out 2 more issues 5 issues later.

 

You could say that B&B 28 was the real turning point that ensured the Silver Age was here to stay, but even the most diehard B&B 28 fans would have to acknowledge that B&B 28 owes its existence to Showcase 4.

 

I don't disagree that Showcase 4 is a significant and desirable book, I just disagree that is singularly the book that launched the silver age, and that the silver age of comics began at the time Showcase 4 came out.

 

My old post is becoming useful again.

 

They've been longer threads on this subject so here are just a few thoughts:

 

There isn't a bright line delineating the start and end of any age. Even if you agree that GA starts with Action 1, that doesn't mean that all books from all publishers changed that same month. Nor is their agreement on when the GA ended and whether there is such a thing as an Atomic Age.

 

BTW, the trend toward "heroic" characters-driven comics was not limited to just superheros. Sgt Rock, Haunted Tank, Gunner & Sarge were all created in the war titles. Mark Merlin was started in House of Secrets to move it away from being an anthology series. Super Chief (half superhero/half western) was created in the last 3 issues of All Star Western.

 

In order for a comic to start an age it has to inspire and have a noticeable success. There's no evidence I'm aware of a creator being contemporaneously inspired by Martian Manhunter, much less comic fans declaring him "favorite hero" or handing out awards to the creative team. Nor was it very successful judging by the fact that it received top billing on a comic starting only in June 1964. He didn't make a cover appearance until B&B 28.

 

It's not significant that Flash waited a couple years to get his own title. Superman's second cover appearance was Action 7, his third Action 10. Basically, DC had burned out on publishing anything but Supe, Bats, and WW and only the finalizing of the sales results induced them to run a second and a third trial. Results came in 3 months following the distribution date after which the decision was made to do any Flash story -- which would have taken a month today. That's why there's at least a 4 month gap between the first 3 appearances of Flash.

 

Challengers wasn't a superhero but just a Kirby version of the adventure stories like DC had in My Greatest Adv and Tales of the Unexp. I suspect that was the reason it got the green light for a solo title.

 

Flash was a re-interpretation of the original GA Flash with a science fiction twist. That was the pattern for GL, Atom, Hawkman etc. B&B 28 was the natural evolution of the All Star/ Justice Society concept for the new heroes. Even the Marvel hero origins were science fiction based, though with the Kirby/Lee/Ditko spin loved by Marvel zombies and others. The creators and fans all noticed the difference in super-heros before Flash and after Flash, and gave awards to Schwartz/Infantino/Anderson. There were superheros created/revived throughout the 50s but the one that "stuck" was the Flash.

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TeddieMercede

TeddieMercede

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Posted

 

I don't mind one bit the course this thread has taken, as was my original intention to see what people think about Showcase #4 in today's market and whether or not it's still a major SA Key, I would have loved to snap up that 4.0 copy Mark sold on eBay, I was watching it, but in the end, I'm not quite into a big buying mode right now.

 

but I do plan to get one, someday.

 

I think this is a great trend for this thread also, this book seems to takes unnecessary hits in my opinion and doesnt get its full due for how important it is. Besides ushering in the Silver Age Barry Allen is a cool hero and is the definitive Flash character, lest we forget that. Also as more people learn about the importance and coolness of this book maybe you ll see an uptick in prices for it.

 

I think even for the most hardcore DC Silver collectors there is some sort of desire to pick up a nice copy say of an AF 15 or FF 1. Hopefully one day that ll be the trend in the opposite direction towards a Showcase 4, 22 or a BB28. Barry Allen and Hal Jordan make for some very cool Flash and GL characters respectively, and if DC has any brains that ll translate into a movie for either one in the near future.

 

Adam Strange, thanks for joining the party ! I have your previous post on my pasteboard waiting for the next opportunity.

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innocuous

innocuous

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Well, it soundls like it's settled, Showcase 4 is the start of the Silver Age. :sumo: There may be other specific titles/issues that are considered more "important" but the Showcase 4 was first, and, gave inspiration for the many other heros that followed.

 

I think I read this in another thread several months ago, but it was also the types of stories and nature of the superhero origins that spawned from Flash. Science and the age of the atom gave credence to an origin spawned by lightning fused chemicals and a radioactive spider.

 

 

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Silver

Silver

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Well, it soundls like it's settled, Showcase 4 is the start of the Silver Age. :sumo: There may be other specific titles/issues that are considered more "important" but the Showcase 4 was first, and, gave inspiration for the many other heros that followed.

 

I think I read this in another thread several months ago, but it was also the types of stories and nature of the superhero origins that spawned from Flash. Science and the age of the atom gave credence to an origin spawned by lightning fused chemicals and a radioactive spider.

 

 

Nothing is settled other than we all love comics lol

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Well, it soundls like it's settled, Showcase 4 is the start of the Silver Age. :sumo: There may be other specific titles/issues that are considered more "important" but the Showcase 4 was first, and, gave inspiration for the many other heros that followed.

 

I think I read this in another thread several months ago, but it was also the types of stories and nature of the superhero origins that spawned from Flash. Science and the age of the atom gave credence to an origin spawned by lightning fused chemicals and a radioactive spider.

 

 

I summarized the basic historical background but there's more evidence that I've seen that I haven't presented and there's vastly more evidence done by real historians in the hobby. An evidence-based argument for some other approach to the start of the Silver Age can be made, but I haven't seen one presented here yet and it should address why the current viewpoint is partially or completely incorrect. History may need to be re-written, but my view is that the onus for proof for some alternative to Showcase 4 has to be on the person proposing the alternative.

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burntboy

burntboy

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course not. The world didnt change that month. So you pick a month. Or an event that kicked off the Silver Age. To me It doesnt really bother me how the hobby (or Overstreet) has defined the process to date. Its always going to be arbitrary.

 

But it makes sense to me that Showcase 4 began a change in comics that culminated in a wave or resurgence of superheroes in comics. And that the reappearance of the Flash, as opposed to a few short lived or minor superhero strips (by DC and the others) was a greater catalyst than the rest as he was a major player in the DC Universe, and was rewarded with his own title that lasted for another 25 years.

 

We celebrate July 4th as the start of the USA, but, aside from a daring letter to the boss, it didnt change anything. But the day the war ended isnt celebrated as the beginning of America, nor the raification of the Constitution nor the election of GW etc which really solidified the US.. Had we lost he war (i.e. the book been cancelled) nobody would care what day the Declaration was signed. But because of what followed, we have chosen that day as the beginning.

 

whaddayagonnado?

 

also, and I know we have all argued all this before, you cant ignoe the sequence of GA and SA, and what these terms refer to when applied to comics. Theres more than the sense that superheroes came back. DC brought back the SAME GA superheroes! THATS the real key to Flash's reappearance that has a significance that Martian Manhunter, Captain Comet, The Fly etc do NOT carry. The Golden Age crashed and burned. then Comics went thru all the genres it could think of looking for hits. Then in the late 50s they tried superheroes again. They trotted out Barry Allen. It clicked. They added GL, Atom, Hawkman etc etc (all familiar names) as well as lots of newer ideas rooted in the 50s and 60s issues of the day. Then Marvel took over and really shook it up big.

 

Showcase 4 may not be the most exciting book today, nor a sea change in thinking like 9/11, or Action 1, but it fits the bill

 

Aman; VERY WELL stated........ (worship)

 

IMHO, you've basically hit it on the head...............

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Aman619

Aman619

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thanx. I got on a roll when I made the GA / SA connection. These terms for the 40s and 60s had only just been created at that time by the nascent fandom movement, specifically aimed at the recent RETURN of the DC Golden Age superheroes that had caused their excitement. Until then, nobody referred to the 40s stuff as the Golden Age. A Golden Age NEEDS subsequent Ages for it to BE a golden age. (They dont have to be called Silver and Bronze, thats just what those guys pegged it. After that, Bronze etc seemed like obvious next step; followed recently by Copper. The die has been cast for Comics Age terminology.).)

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KirbyJack

KirbyJack

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I think even for the most hardcore DC Silver collectors there is some sort of desire to pick up a nice copy say of an AF 15 or FF 1. Hopefully one day that ll be the trend in the opposite direction towards a Showcase 4, 22 or a BB28.

 

That's how it went for me. I'm a pure Marvel guy, but I just had to have copies of the DC keys.

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Flash105

Flash105

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I'm a pure DC guy and I lust every day over AF15 and X-Men #1 so I know what you mean. There is a SC4 2.0 that is selling tomorrow on C-Link that already has a healthy bid on it. I find it amazing that books with BIN pricing sit for weeks on end and other copies of the same book put in a no reserve auction fly away at big prices.

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AtlasFan

AtlasFan

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Showcase #4 seems to be in significant demand in almost any grade, and that's been true as long as I've been collecting. It's one of the handful of silver age books about which you can say that. It's also one of the least common (maybe the least common) of the silver age keys. You just don't see it coming up for sale nearly as often as the other major SA keys.

 

Whether it will increase in value short-term is another question. Maybe, maybe not - no one can say for sure. But as a long-term investment, Showcase #4 is one of the safest investments among all SA keys in my opinion.

 

Showcase #8 is slow and over priced in guide. Showcase #4 is a different matter. The demand for Showcase #4 is strong. Problem is, unlike AF#15, most copies are pretty beat.

 

S

 

Steve, how would you rate Showcase #6?

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Flash105

Flash105

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There is a SC4 2.0 that is selling tomorrow on C-Link that already has a healthy bid on it.

 

my God that does have a healthy bid already doesn't it ?! and it's even a PGX book ! :o

 

Sure does, GPA for a cgc copy is only 1275.00

 

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