Do You Want Fries With That?

[DrWatson]

Maybe they weren't and you just assume that they were based on the seller. For the record, the splash being stuck to the front cover does NOT mean that a book has been pressed.

What if they were found behind a grassy knoll?

[awe4one]

Maybe they weren't and you just assume that they were based on the seller. For the record, the splash being stuck to the front cover does NOT mean that a book has been pressed.

 

Every book? Again, I've bought 100s of comics from calm-mix that were never opened. The comics tend to stick at the sides and bottom and come off clean. Not peel the cover from the front and back pages. And when you have the comics in hand it's clear from the feel, despite all the yelling that you can't tell, that they were in fact pressed. You can keep saying they weren't but you'd be deluding yourself...

 

Based on the other comics I have that are pressed, these were pretty bad pressing jobs...

 

Jim

[LordRahl]

If the magic bullet were sitting next to them... maybe

[NewWorldOrder]

It seems people on these boards believe that you can just keep pressing and pressing any book and it will always get favorable results, which is very

 

Acutally I just sent my ASM 121 CGC 9.4 to be pressed 4 times so it gets a CGC 10.0 when it done!

[MrBedrock]

 Originally Posted By: bronty

We've seen far too many examples on these boards of books that were "improved" in one way or another but are sitting in blue labels. Sorry but people paying these kinds of multiples for blue label high grade are suckers at this point given all the *fork* that's been's proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I agree completely. As someone who placed a number of 5-figure bids on blue label books in last week's auction, I have no illusion that these books weren't pressed. Anyone who did would indeed be a sucker. After thinking long and hard about it, I've decided to accept pressed books as a market reality and pay exactly the same for them as I would for unpressed books in the same grade. If I only wanted books that were not pressed I would have to give up collecting high grade GA.

 

 Originally Posted By: mrbedrock

When I decide to sell them, I am going to make a S H I T load of money.

But that is not the reason that I had them pressed. You can continue to convince yourself that it is. But it ain't

 

Mr. Bedrock, I understand completely what you are saying here. Since you are paying for some of the top books in the hobby and noone can distinguish pressed books, you would be a fool not to get your own books pressed. Thanks for bringing some balance to a discussion that has been very one-sided so far. I can certainly also understand why nearmint chose to get some of his books pressed.

 

 Originally Posted By: adamstrange

I've collected objects outside of comics and have family members that do as well. There is, unfortunately nothing about the situation in comics that makes it any more of rogue's nest than any other hobby. The greater the money at stake the more likely it is that people will look for an edge in their dealings with others. If there is any increase in unethical behavior (and I'm not convinced there is as it wasn't all sweetness and light prior to CGC) it's due the continued popularity of comics that causes collectors to pay substantially more for them than they used to.

 

If you don't like atmosphere in comics then I don't have any other collectible area to recommend and can only suggest taking up hobbies that don't involve the collecting of things.

 

The talk about ethics in the Silveracre threads surprised me. The premise for talking about ethics and morality is an established standard for what is right and wrong. As I see it, the bar for that standard is currently being set by people who get books pressed for a profit. By that standard, pressing is neither unethical nor immoral. It would be different if you were to claim that the ethical standard for the hobby is higher, but this is not my own experience.

 

In general, I think it is missing the point to talk about whether pressing or what Silveracre did was ethical or not: the real question is where the bar for the current standard in the hobby is set. If an action conforms to that, it is ethical, otherwise it is not.

 

While I may not personally like pressing or what Silveracred did, I wouldn't consider either below the established standards.

[BrianR]

I bought a small collection off of Craigslist here in Phx. a year or so ago and about half of the books were stuck togther I just assumed they stored in a area of higher than normal temperature for a while like in a garage. During the monsoon season we get a pretty good amount of humidity as well. (I also got some Bunkie Brothers? warehouse books that were stuck togther like this as well but those had ink transfers on the inside.) Page quality was cream to O/W (Outer edges were cream). Books were stacked vertically when the owner pulled them out.

[rodan57]

 Originally Posted By: agro23

 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock

I have had many of the books in my collection pressed. And I assure you I have no intention of selling them.

 

I plan on being entombed with my collection. In a Crypt....climate controlled and pest proof. A custodian will change the backing boards every seven years and add new acid neutralising paper.

To you or to the comic books?

[NewWorldOrder]

Whether some collectors like it or not PRESSING is here to stay.

 

I could care less if a seller discloses whether the book has been presse dor not.

 

Once it gets that blue label and if you believe in CGC grading standards then the issue is not relative.

 

Yes the Jason E. scandal was terrible but Matt Nelson has set-up a business for hire and its a legitmate business.

 

NOBODY IS TRYING TO FOOL ANYONE HERE IN TERMS OF PRESSING!

 

CGC has accepted it as not-restro, so if you are a high grade collector your going to have to accept that if you believe in CGC.

 

 

 

[trmoore54]

 Originally Posted By: LordRahl

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header"> Originally Posted By: awe4one</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header"> Originally Posted By: arexcrooke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were, to you, the giveaways that it had been pressed? </div></div><br /><br /><b>I'll get away from the comics have a certain common "feel" to them after pressing and focus on you can actually see the defects that were pressed out if you put the book at an angle under a bright light. </b> You'll see the creases that more look like lines now. Back covers are great for this. Also, check the centerfolds. Regardless of how white the pages are, a comic will have yellowed to a certain extent over the years. If the whole comic has been pressed you'll see an offset of the color at the centerfold as the comic has been pressed on a slightly different offset than where it's been over the years...<br /><br />Jim </div></div><br /><br />No offense dude, but I'll call you out on this as having no clue what you're talking about. I actually have a very good reason as to my opinion here. <br /><br />Nochips was selling some Sgt. Fury books here a while ago that you had either bought from him or had the opportunity to inspect in person and you were convinced that they had been pressed because of the look and feel of them. I know for a fact that you are dead wrong about those books being pressed. <br /><br />I know who he bought the books from (a lady on ebay that usually sells pottery), and the original owner who she was selling them for. The OO was a friend of hers who was liquidating his collection. Older guy that bought these off the stand and saved them without reading a lot of them. Pristine books, I bought a lot of the collection and it was mostly unread 9.4-9.8 books. She would not have known how to press a book to save her life and there is no way the OO was pressing these. If he was trying to maximize value he would not have been selling them on ebay raw through a pottery seller. He was getting like 60% of guide for 9.4-9.8 books. <br /><br />My point being that if you were so convinced that they had been pressed and I know they weren't, maybe you aren't as good at spotting truly pressed books as you seem to think.

 

How do you explain the covers sticking to the front and back pages then?

 

Jim

That wouldn't have been a copy of Cherry Pop Tart would it??

[joe_collector]

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is time.

 

Nope, there is no heat, moisture, localized pressure, or the necessary PSI that a pro-press job entails.

[trmoore54]

(BTW...always enjoy the pressing threads... )

 

Firstly, I am pretty ambivalent about pressing, mostly because there is no real definitive information yet of how much harm or accelleration of age the pressing may be causing. And it's a bit surprising, but no one has really mentioned this yet...this is the critical issue. Because as far as I know not enough time has passed nor have there been any controlled experiments performed to determine this.

 

If one had to guess, one would suspect that depending on the level of moisture and/or heat used (I won't call it damage per se) the aging of the book could be accellerated. If this were found out to be the case, then this would have to be considered worse than pure restoration which in most forms is fairly benign.

 

Interesting to me that this aspect always seems to be ignored or skirted over. If it could be proven physically that the nature of the paper has not undergone any transformation that has accellerated it's aging process, then I would say that pressing is conservation, not restoration. And that's a similar but different discussion.

 

Final opinion...these issues will all change within our lifetime or the next 50 years...as books get older restoration will become known much more as conservation and lose its stigma...like art and architecture...the older and more venerable things become, especially things constructed to last 25-50 years max, the more respectable it will become to conserve them...

[The Black Hand ®]

I think that pressing has been around for a while with other forms of ephemera...so there should be a track record of safety.

[NewWorldOrder]

(BTW...always enjoy the pressing threads... )

 

Firstly, I am pretty ambivalent about pressing, mostly because there is no real definitive information yet of how much harm or accelleration of age the pressing may be causing. And it's a bit surprising, but no one has really mentioned this yet...this is the critical issue. Because as far as I know not enough time has passed nor have there been any controlled experiments performed to determine this.

 

If one had to guess, one would suspect that depending on the level of moisture and/or heat used (I won't call it damage per se) the aging of the book could be accellerated. If this were found out to be the case, then this would have to be considered worse than pure restoration which in most forms is fairly benign.

 

Interesting to me that this aspect always seems to be ignored or skirted over. If it could be proven physically that the nature of the paper has not undergone any transformation that has accellerated it's aging process, then I would say that pressing is conservation, not restoration. And that's a similar but different discussion.

 

Final opinion...these issues will all change within our lifetime or the next 50 years...as books get older restoration will become known much more as conservation and lose its stigma...like art and architecture...the older and more venerable things become, especially things constructed to last 25-50 years max, the more respectable it will become to conserve them...

GOOD POINT!We can also say the same thing about the CGC case itself!

[homerwannabee]

Pressing is definitely a hot topic. I personally would never have a book pressed or buy a book that I knew was pressed. But if I buy a book that is pressed "Cie La Vie". I have a question. Does pressing lengthen the book at all? If the pressing straigtens out the crease it would seem that it would lengthen the book by a small margin. Also does the book lose it's gloss when it is pressed or does it become too glossy? At the moment it seems that pressing has not destroyed the hobby. In fact there are still not that many 9.8's before 1970. But I do believe one thing would happen.

 

If pressing becomes abundant. To the point where 9.8's that used to be $1,000 are now only $75. There will be something done about it. CGC is a business. And the fact is if $1,000 graded books become $75 graded books less people will want to get their books graded. If that happens CGC starts to lose money. Like any business if they recognize an act that is costing them a loss of money they will take steps to try to stop the act from destroying their business. At the moment submissions are greater than ever for CGC. At the moment pressing still has not effected the price of high grade comics. If for some reason pressing does start to effect price on high grade comics something will probably be done.

[buttock]

 Originally Posted By: Sal

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is <b>time</b>.

 

Nope, there is no heat, moisture, localized pressure, or the necessary PSI that a pro-press job entails.

You're so stupid.

[buttock]

Awe4one -

 

Am I correct in saying that you are saying that book is pressed without having seen it in person? If so, I'll stop the argument at that point as you are clearly off. I'd really like for you to answer this clearly.

 

But I do want to address the point of pages sticking to the cover. Specifically going back to my original point that by claiming this is from pressing you are assuming intent. All of us at one point or another have picked up a HG book and opened it to see that there are varying degrees of "sticking". None of those imply an intended pressing, simply contact between two surfaces over time under certain conditions. For you to claim otherwise makes you sound paranoid. Quite paranoid.

 

If, in fact, some of these instances have been the result of pressing, then the pressing was not done correctly - as Kenny has pointed out. In this case, don't you think that your efforts would be more well-guided in trying to establish some standards for pressing that maintain the structural integrity of the book rather than grouping all pressing into some fabricated evil?

[The Black Hand ®]

The pages sticking together factor puzzles me. I've never had that happen with a comic...although I remember when I was around 14, I had that problem with my Playboy collection.

[Ghost Town]

The pages sticking together factor puzzles me. I've never had that happen with a comic...although I remember when I was around 14, I had that problem with my Playboy collection.

I've bought a lot of unread, original owner comics over the years and I think it's fairly common with that kind of book.

[awe4one]

But I do want to address the point of pages sticking to the cover. Specifically going back to my original point that by claiming this is from pressing you are assuming intent. All of us at one point or another have picked up a HG book and opened it to see that there are varying degrees of "sticking". None of those imply an intended pressing, simply contact between two surfaces over time under certain conditions. For you to claim otherwise makes you sound paranoid. Quite paranoid.

 

I've had conversations with other Forum members, some who've bought similar comics from the same seller, and the all agree the comics were pressed. You can call it paranoid all you want but it's really not anything near that...I could say you all are spending much more energy trying to deny the obvious...

 

Nothing I say is going to convince anyone who doesn't want to listen anyway. I've listed in detail the questions posted in this thread about the pressing and yet the What Ifs continue. Nothing other than a press and figureprints will satisfy you all and I have better things to do with my time than rehash what I've already posted.

 

It's actually funny seeing how fervent some of you are in denying what has been known for quite some time but can't seem to accept. From my viewpoint that's what I'd call quite paranoid...

 

Jim

[Sal]

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is time.

 

Nope, there is no heat, moisture, localized pressure, or the necessary PSI that a pro-press job entails.

 

I'm doing a bad job of explaining myself.

 

 

The point I'm trying to make here is that, left in well-aligned stacks long enough, books will conform to the ideal. That is, nice and flat, and free of bends and surface impressions.

 

 

If you don't have enough time to wait, and failing the finding of an undisturbed cache of fifty year old books, the shortcut to getting to a flat book free of bends and surface impressions is to use either a large press or a spot press. The artificial addition of heat and/or moisture - although I am not aware with 100% certainty that moisture is a component of the type of pressing normally done by Nelson and others - is merely a way to get the end result in as quick a time as possible.

 

If you think you can honestly tell the difference between a book that's been at the bottom of a stack or in a box for thirty years, and a book that's managed to accumulate a number of pressable defects which can be elimintated artifically, then more power to you. I am in no way convinced this can be done