Do You Want Fries With That?

[MrBedrock]

I was just doing a little math in my head (which is making it hurt) and here's what I came up with...

At the height of the bronze age Marvel, DC and other publishers all together put out around 100 comics a month (maybe more, maybe less, but somewhere in that range). I would imagine that the average print run was probably north of 100,000 copies of each issue, but for the purpose here we can use that number. That would mean that roughly ten million comics were printed each month. 120 million comics a year, 1.2 billion comics over the ten year period we commonly refer to as the bronze age.

I imagine it will take a very long time for Matt Nelson and his minions to go through each and every remaining comic from that time. In the meantime, those of you who would prefer your comics unpressed should have quite a large group of books to choose from.

 

[jbud73]

 Originally Posted By: MCMiles

I personally find this to be inaccurate. It just seems that way on these boards and especially in pressing threads because they are the most vocal.

 

When i spent 4 days in NYC at the Con this past April working with Byron Jones (TVComics), I was NEVER asked a single time by HUNDREDS of prospective buyers, whether any books we were offering had been pressed. and we dealt with lots of board members as well as many dealers.

 

I have to believe that "disclosure" is a desired concept of the vocal MINORITY. not saying i don't empathize, but with no one asking any questions about pressing, i find it hard to believe that a majority of hobbyists find the practice so distasteful...

There are two assumptions here Harry.1. That the prospective buyers were aware of the practice of pressing and that they understand the implications. Again I'll use the insider trading analogy, in that the tactic is only successful, or the degree of its success is magnified by its proliferation, or lack there of. Another way to put it, is the sure thing at the track doesn't mean much if everyone is in the know and the odds are so small as to make the money bet not worth your time.2. Acceptance. Related to the first point, if they do know they may not care, or they may have factored their awareness into their inquires without telling you. For example taking the position that all new label slabs in the SA are worth 10% less than the GPA for their Old Label brethren.Um on that note, is the current list of what you have left still valid on the website? I'd like to see about owning one of your books

[GACollectibles]

I was just doing a little math in my head (which is making it hurt) and here's what I came up with...

At the height of the bronze age Marvel, DC and other publishers all together put out around 100 comics a month (maybe more, maybe less, but somewhere in that range). I would imagine that the average print run was probably north of 100,000 copies of each issue, but for the purpose here we can use that number. That would mean that roughly ten million comics were printed each month. 120 million comics a year, 1.2 billion comics over the ten year period we commonly refer to as the bronze age.

I imagine it will take a very long time for Matt Nelson and his minions to go through each and every remaining comic from that time. In the meantime, those of you who would prefer your comics unpressed should have quite a large group of books to choose from.

 

Maybe he turns the press up to "11" and it goes really fast.

[Transplant]

Matt now has minions? Is he borrowing yours? Or are yours just peasants?

[MrBedrock]

Matt now has minions? Is he borrowing yours? Or are yours just peasants?

Mine are lackeys.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I was just doing a little math in my head (which is making it hurt) and here's what I came up with...

At the height of the bronze age Marvel, DC and other publishers all together put out around 100 comics a month (maybe more, maybe less, but somewhere in that range). I would imagine that the average print run was probably north of 100,000 copies of each issue, but for the purpose here we can use that number. That would mean that roughly ten million comics were printed each month. 120 million comics a year, 1.2 billion comics over the ten year period we commonly refer to as the bronze age.

I imagine it will take a very long time for Matt Nelson and his minions to go through each and every remaining comic from that time. In the meantime, those of you who would prefer your comics unpressed should have quite a large group of books to choose from.

Yeah, with the vast majority of them in the VG-FN range.So what you're saying is, if you don't like pressing, stick to low grade.Which is why I posted in the first place. I don't see anywhere to go with my books of choice, unless I am willing to embrace current practices.And it would seem that you agree with me.

[MCMiles]

I was just doing a little math in my head (which is making it hurt) and here's what I came up with...

At the height of the bronze age Marvel, DC and other publishers all together put out around 100 comics a month (maybe more, maybe less, but somewhere in that range). I would imagine that the average print run was probably north of 100,000 copies of each issue, but for the purpose here we can use that number. That would mean that roughly ten million comics were printed each month. 120 million comics a year, 1.2 billion comics over the ten year period we commonly refer to as the bronze age.

I imagine it will take a very long time for Matt Nelson and his minions to go through each and every remaining comic from that time. In the meantime, those of you who would prefer your comics unpressed should have quite a large group of books to choose from.

 

Maybe he turns the press up to "11" and it goes really fast.

 

Maybe he has a basement full of little green men (Schomburgesque) pumping them out.

[underthebigw]

 Originally Posted By: Burntboy

 Originally Posted By: MCMiles

I personally find this to be inaccurate. It just seems that way on these boards and especially in pressing threads because they are the most vocal.

 

When i spent 4 days in NYC at the Con this past April working with Byron Jones (TVComics), I was NEVER asked a single time by HUNDREDS of prospective buyers, whether any books we were offering had been pressed. and we dealt with lots of board members as well as many dealers.

 

I have to believe that "disclosure" is a desired concept of the vocal MINORITY. not saying i don't empathize, but with no one asking any questions about pressing, i find it hard to believe that a majority of hobbyists find the practice so distasteful...

 

There are two assumptions here Harry.

 

1. That the prospective buyers were aware of the practice of pressing and that they understand the implications. Again I'll use the insider trading analogy, in that the tactic is only successful, or the degree of its success is magnified by its proliferation, or lack there of. Another way to put it, is the sure thing at the track doesn't mean much if everyone is in the know and the odds are so small as to make the money bet not worth your time.

 

2. Acceptance. Related to the first point, if they do know they may not care, or they may have factored their awareness into their inquires without telling you. For example taking the position that all new label slabs in the SA are worth 10% less than the GPA for their Old Label brethren.

 

Um on that note, is the current list of what you have left still valid on the website? I'd like to see about owning one of your books

Don't forget the fact that this is not a selective sample. People know Byron as a dealer (he's not depending on books for his livelihood) and you. Together, you and Byron sold off your beautiful collection, many books of which could have been pressed (and probably have been since you sold them) into significantly higher grade copies. The fact that you didn't do this is no doubt remembered by those collectors who were around for the sales. And, no doubt, some people who bought your books and pressed them for resale, were shopping for similar books that haven't yet had their "potential maximized"

[OldGuy]

 Originally Posted By: OldGuy

 Originally Posted By: Sal

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is time.

 

And moisture and heat, but who's counting......

 

Again, moisture and heat help reduce the amount of time needed...

My point was that a stack of books in my house won't have heat or moisture added to them, but books in a press do. I think that's a pretty significant difference. We talk all the time about the importance of storing our comics in a dry, cool environment, but when it comes to adding moisture and heat to them in an attempt to make them look better the it's all good?!

[Sal]

 Originally Posted By: OldGuy

 Originally Posted By: Sal

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is time.

 

And moisture and heat, but who's counting......

 

Again, moisture and heat help reduce the amount of time needed...

My point was that a stack of books in my house won't have heat or moisture added to them, but books in a press do. I think that's a pretty significant difference. We talk all the time about the importance of storing our comics in a dry, cool environment, but when it comes to adding moisture and heat to them in an attempt to make them look better the it's all good?!

Don't make me come down there, OG.

[MrBedrock]

So what you're saying is, if you don't like pressing, stick to low grade.

 

Which is why I posted in the first place. I don't see anywhere to go with my books of choice, unless I am willing to embrace current practices.

 

And it would seem that you agree with me.

Nick, at no point in my post did I mention anything about grade. I was only talking about the shear number of books available from that time period. Not just currently in circulation but also including those in collections and accumulations that have not come to market. Considering the state of the hobby in the 1970s there are plenty of high grade comics that are waiting to come out of the woodwork.So it is really up to you. If you are unhappy with the availability of high grade, no-doubt-about-it, guaranteed unmanipulated bronze age comics and you don't have the patience to wait for new virgin collections then I suggest it may be best that you give up the hunt. But if the passion to pursue those books that appeal to you still burns then go for it. The books are out there, you just have to work a little harder to find them. And shouldn't the books themselves make the extra work worth it?

[Ze-man]

Oh, and on the spooky there's a dust shadow on the TOP too. In just the exact configuration you'd expect to see with the other two dust shadows.

 

Nice "press" job...

It's from a known presser AND the discoloration was caused by it's time with the severe spine roll. You can see clearly where the edge was. That's not a dust shadow but rather the edge, with clear wear line, before the pressing...Jim

Hey Jim, I have tried to wade through this thread as best I could with little time and wanted to ask you about this book.You say the spine discoloration is from a spine roll that was reversed by pressing, but on this Spooky book there is an exact type staining, foxing on the top edge of the front cover that perfectly fits with most tanning or dust type shadows that hit 2 sides of a cover.How is this explained if the spine wear happened when it was rolled and the top edge was not? Regarding who or why this person would press this book is beyond me, not only because of its low value, but because even if pressing it did help remove a spine roll, it left behind an ugly mess.I guess I am saying this might not be the best book to use as an example for detecting pressing.

[DrWatson]

 Originally Posted By: Flaming_Telepath

So what you're saying is, if you don't like pressing, stick to low grade.

 

Which is why I posted in the first place. I don't see anywhere to go with my books of choice, unless I am willing to embrace current practices.

 

And it would seem that you agree with me.

Nick, at no point in my post did I mention anything about grade. I was only talking about the shear number of books available from that time period. Not just currently in circulation but also including those in collections and accumulations that have not come to market. Considering the state of the hobby in the 1970s there are plenty of high grade comics that are waiting to come out of the woodwork.

So it is really up to you. If you are unhappy with the availability of high grade, no-doubt-about-it, guaranteed unmanipulated bronze age comics and you don't have the patience to wait for new virgin collections then I suggest it may be best that you give up the hunt. But if the passion to pursue those books that appeal to you still burns then go for it. The books are out there, you just have to work a little harder to find them. And shouldn't the books themselves make the extra work worth it?

Excellent post, Richard. Nick, I don't believe you are relegated to less than high grade books. I believe there are tons of HG books out there that haven't been discovered. That's partly the reason for my collecting shift. Contact a few dealers that you trust and let them know what you are after. Heck, I'm sure that Richard would even be willing to lend a hand in some regards. If he would look for books for me, then he would look for anybody.

[Ze-man]

I literally had to peel the covers off the front pages. At the time I didn't know about pressing and wondered what was going on. You may find pressed books that open up normally, but is only because the presser unstuck everything before sending it back to you

 

You can buy raw books from a couple sellers in the Forum marketplace where this occurs...

 

*****

 

Now that that cat is out of the bag, they'll be sure to "peel away" the front cover from the splash before shipping.

 

Hey Steve, I just wanted to add that if people are having to peel away covers from a splash page because the book was pressed, well then the book was obviously pressed incorrectly.

 

Now I can see why people say they can detect pressed books, if they were all like you described I could too!

 

It's easy for people to look at a book and try to chalk up certain flaws as being there from being pressed, especially if the book the book in question was not a HG book to start with. But in the end if done correctly on the right book I cannot see anyone consistantly picking out pressed books out of a stack, let alone being sure enough to label them as such.

 

Making an educated guess versus stating a fact are two completey different things. There are simply too many variables in a comics life to chalk up certain traits to simply pressing when they could be attributed to other factors.

 

 

[LordRahl]

 Originally Posted By: arexcrooke

What were, to you, the giveaways that it had been pressed?

 

I'll get away from the comics have a certain common "feel" to them after pressing and focus on you can actually see the defects that were pressed out if you put the book at an angle under a bright light. You'll see the creases that more look like lines now. Back covers are great for this. Also, check the centerfolds. Regardless of how white the pages are, a comic will have yellowed to a certain extent over the years. If the whole comic has been pressed you'll see an offset of the color at the centerfold as the comic has been pressed on a slightly different offset than where it's been over the years...

 

Jim

No offense dude, but I'll call you out on this as having no clue what you're talking about. I actually have a very good reason as to my opinion here. Nochips was selling some Sgt. Fury books here a while ago that you had either bought from him or had the opportunity to inspect in person and you were convinced that they had been pressed because of the look and feel of them. I know for a fact that you are dead wrong about those books being pressed. I know who he bought the books from (a lady on ebay that usually sells pottery), and the original owner who she was selling them for. The OO was a friend of hers who was liquidating his collection. Older guy that bought these off the stand and saved them without reading a lot of them. Pristine books, I bought a lot of the collection and it was mostly unread 9.4-9.8 books. She would not have known how to press a book to save her life and there is no way the OO was pressing these. If he was trying to maximize value he would not have been selling them on ebay raw through a pottery seller. He was getting like 60% of guide for 9.4-9.8 books. My point being that if you were so convinced that they had been pressed and I know they weren't, maybe you aren't as good at spotting truly pressed books as you seem to think.

[awe4one]

 Originally Posted By: awe4one

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header"> Originally Posted By: arexcrooke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were, to you, the giveaways that it had been pressed? </div></div><br /><br />I'll get away from the comics have a certain common "feel" to them after pressing and focus on you can actually see the defects that were pressed out if you put the book at an angle under a bright light. You'll see the creases that more look like lines now. Back covers are great for this. Also, check the centerfolds. Regardless of how white the pages are, a comic will have yellowed to a certain extent over the years. If the whole comic has been pressed you'll see an offset of the color at the centerfold as the comic has been pressed on a slightly different offset than where it's been over the years...<br /><br />Jim

 

No offense dude, but I'll call you out on this as having no clue what you're talking about. I actually have a very good reason as to my opinion here.

 

Nochips was selling some Sgt. Fury books here a while ago that you had either bought from him or had the opportunity to inspect in person and you were convinced that they had been pressed because of the look and feel of them. I know for a fact that you are dead wrong about those books being pressed.

 

I know who he bought the books from (a lady on ebay that usually sells pottery), and the original owner who she was selling them for. The OO was a friend of hers who was liquidating his collection. Older guy that bought these off the stand and saved them without reading a lot of them. Pristine books, I bought a lot of the collection and it was mostly unread 9.4-9.8 books. She would not have known how to press a book to save her life and there is no way the OO was pressing these. If he was trying to maximize value he would not have been selling them on ebay raw through a pottery seller. He was getting like 60% of guide for 9.4-9.8 books.

 

My point being that if you were so convinced that they had been pressed and I know they weren't, maybe you aren't as good at spotting truly pressed books as you seem to think.

How do you explain the covers sticking to the front and back pages then?Jim

[burntboy]

Jason; despite my best efforts, Byron's a busy man.

 

Everything on that list is gone except for ASM 19, Avengers 5, and FF's 2,16,24,26 and 31.

 

Of course if you've got a spare $33K, i can let you have my AF #15...

[LordRahl]

Hmmm... Maybe the books were never opened

[awe4one]

You say the spine discoloration is from a spine roll that was reveresed by pressing, but on this Spooky book there is an exact type staining, foxing on the top edge of the front cover that perfectly fits with most tanning or dust type shadows that hit 2 sides of a cover.

 

How is this explained if the spine wear happened when it was rolled and the FC was not?

 

Regarding who or why this person would press this book is beyond me, not only because of its low value, but because even if pressing it did help remove a spine roll, it left behind an ugly mess.

 

I guess I am saying this might not be the best book to use as an example for detecting pressing.

 

The book was stored badly and the top and side tanning is a result of overhang due to the severe spine roll that was pressed out. I suspect the pages are quite yellowed...As to why it was pressed? Who knows? Maybe an experiment to see what could be achieved that was inadvertently or stupidly later offered for sale...And I didn't post the comic as an example for detecting pressing, only that raw comics are pressed. I nearly fell over laughing when I originally saw this comic offered and saved the pic...Jim

[OldGuy]

 Originally Posted By: OldGuy

 Originally Posted By: Sal

 Originally Posted By: OldGuy

 Originally Posted By: Sal

Not to get into it one way or the other, but the difference between a stack of books and a press is time.

 

And moisture and heat, but who's counting......

 

Again, moisture and heat help reduce the amount of time needed...

 

My point was that a stack of books in my house won't have heat or moisture added to them, but books in a press do. I think that's a pretty significant difference.

 

We talk all the time about the importance of storing our comics in a dry, cool environment, but when it comes to adding moisture and heat to them in an attempt to make them look better the it's all good?!

 

Don't make me come down there, OG.