Economic Slowdown - Any Impact on Golden Age Comics?

[Primetime]

One of my favorite questions.

 

The line between "prime" golden age and so-so golden age books, is in flux. When money tightens up, buyers will detail want list accordingly. Less A grade titles or characters will soften in demand and price.

 

On the other side, sellers who do not need to sell, will hold out, contrary to sellers who need to raise cash right now.

 

As I have said on another thread, I was amazed at the number of cool golden age books, with a recent 2008 sale, DROP in price, compared to 2005 prices ( on the same book). Based on the Heritage archieves.

 

Thoughts?

 

B

 

supply + demand=price...

 

if the economy is affecting both, and we are seeing an increase in supply (due to financial necessity) and we also see a decrease in demand (due to lack of funds), then price will drop...

 

however, as you mention, on "A" material, I believe supply will always be exceeded by demand and prices will always remain healthy, at the least

 

Of course, the internet has affected supply and demand...with eBay, online auctions, and board postings, we have more access to books and can have a better idea of what books are frequently traded/sold...

[esquirecomics]

Interesting. Like to read more about it.

 

Oleg Kalugin - Wikipedia

 

And for Tim: Valerie Plame - Wikipedia

 

And now back to comics!

[Deucedriver]

Normally during inflationary periods you want to be invested in hard assets - real estate, gold, stock of companies that can raise prices with inflation, etc... Comics and art are hard assets, but if inflation gets out of hand (as many predict) people will be struggling just to keep up with the rise in price of essentials. Savings will take a big hit in purchasing power, people will feel poorer and they will spend less on discretionary items. Since it is the marginal buyer that sets the price for comics at auction, just a few less bidders can affect prices a lot.

 

Mike

 

This is completely correct. Furthermore the u.s. seems to be headed from what i've been told towards one of the single worst positions possible. A recession in which inflation is rising. This means so much bad for you it's just not funny. Luckily in the modern day (even 20 years on from the asian economic crisis) we have much more effective tools to use against inflation and such things. I'm not sure if america adopts a monetary or fiscal policy towards inflation but i sure hope it's not thinking too far into throwing money at this recession till it goes away.

 

Also, as a side note, here in AU they recently gave every other man woman and child $1000 for xmas to spend, how sweet is that? Certainly improves the situation for everyone and helps stave off economic slowdown. I think the US will begin to really turn around in about a year to 18 months as government action really starts to take effect.

 

I suppose it's your own fault for having a home loan system where you can just hand over the keys to the house and walk away from the loan...

 

Great comments.

 

The home loan system you speak about is gone. It helped cause the bubble, it has burst, and now the home loan system is moving back towards normal. Just one of the many reasons for the real estate collapse here in the States.

 

Comics could go up in price with inflation, but the comment is correct, if necessities become too expensive funny books will be very far down the list of purchases.

 

We'll see how Obama's policies work. The problem with this influx of spending (of which we have to print the money since the Federal Govt. is in debt beyond measure) is it has to be paid for in the future - either through higher taxes or through a continued devaluation of the U.S. Dollar, which we are seeing already.

 

One thing Japan had/has that we don't is they are a producing nation, we are a consuming nation. The rest of the world is lending us the money to buy their goods and it won't go on forever. An adjustment will be made at some point, and it will be painful until complete.

 

 

[tth2]

Guess it was a big deal inside the beltway or in CIA circles. I either missed it out here or it just didn't register internationally.

 

It was a HUGE story throughout the United States from 2003-2007.

I guess the story was like Jessica Simpson. Everyone in the US seems to know who she is, and she seems to be a big deal there for some reason despite any notable accomplishments, but for the rest of the world everyone's like "Who is Jessica Simpson and why is she famous?"

 

Anyways, enough derailing of this thread.

[Yannis]

Interesting. Like to read more about it.

 

Oleg Kalugin - Wikipedia

 

And for Tim: Valerie Plame - Wikipedia

 

And now back to comics!

 

Thanks, will check it out, although it is quite known that wikipedia isn't all factual-will still need some more reliable sources. But it will be interesting reading regardless, thanks again!

[ciorac]

Guess it was a big deal inside the beltway or in CIA circles. I either missed it out here or it just didn't register internationally.

 

It was a HUGE story throughout the United States from 2003-2007.

 

I missed it too. But, I miss most current events, as I don't watch the news or read the newspaper, but she is kind of hot.

 

Maybe I will respond to those ads on the radio from the CIA seeking applicants. I heard one the other day and at first thought it was a gag ad. But, it wasn't

 

[Shield]

Guess it was a big deal inside the beltway or in CIA circles. I either missed it out here or it just didn't register internationally.

 

It was a HUGE story throughout the United States from 2003-2007.

 

Well, not that huge....maybe in your circles, but overall, no, not "huge" at all...just being realistic..

[Norrin_Radd]

If you watch the news or listen to NPR, it was pretty huge. If you have no clue about current events, then it wasn't huge.

 

[G.A.tor]

HUGE

[Shield]

If you watch the news or listen to NPR, it was pretty huge. If you have no clue about current events, then it wasn't huge.

 

 

Don't be a jerk. You have no clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[innocuous]

Must resist urge to make political comments..I just hope to see Valerie on the stand next year.

 

To stay on topic, if it weren't for the economy I would have purchased an Action 1 by now.

[sfcityduck]

I love this thread. Lots of good commentary. Comic economics have always fascinated me.

 

It's been about four months since I last read it, and heading towards 2 months since the last comments ... So where's the GA market heading?

 

I'm especially curious if more good books are coming out. I see on other threads discussion about a nice Action 1 that's come out. Anyone know who/why that book surfaced? I've always thought that in a bad economy you might see the first and second generation collectors that bought and held on to books in the 60s and 70s to start selling if they were concerned about their income streams, either due to poor performing retirement accounts or decreased stream of revenue. I've also read that some comic book stores have fallen victim to the economic downturn, and that suggests that some store owners might want to prop up their stores by selling some of their collections. Any evidence for or against the notion that the economy is starting to prompt old collectors to convert their books into cash?

 

I've also heard that the most ever paid in cash for a comic book is $350K (or was it $250K?) and that the circle of collectors with that kind of money is very small. Anyone want to venture an educated guess about the actual number of "big money" collectors who might bid on something like the Action 1 above the $250K level?

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

Guess it was a big deal inside the beltway or in CIA circles. I either missed it out here or it just didn't register internationally.

 

It was a HUGE story throughout the United States from 2003-2007.

I guess the story was like Jessica Simpson. Everyone in the US seems to know who she is, and she seems to be a big deal there for some reason despite any notable accomplishments, but for the rest of the world everyone's like "Who is Jessica Simpson and why is she famous?"

 

Anyways, enough derailing of this thread.

 

Show a picture of her boobs and I bet they know who she is.

[innocuous]

I've been crossing my fingers for 2 months that Ebay would get flooded with great GA at cheap prices . . . it ain't happening.

[sfcityduck]

I noticed that an eBay seller called wallstmw is offering some very nice looking books, such as a CGC 8.0 Mystery Comics 1 and a CGC 5.5 Siler Streak 6, and his eBay posts say:

 

INOTE: These books I am now listing are very unique and will not likely pop up again in this condition any time soon. These are from the core of my collection. I have cherry picked these books over my past 20-years of collecting golden age war covers.

 

I can only speculate why he's selling the "core of [his] collection" now, but I read his tag as Wall St. MW and I also noted he's auctioning off a domain name called "beatingthebear.com," so that may be a hint as to why he's taking this step now.

[tabcom]

OK . . here is my speculation regarding the economic slowdown, that has passed the technical indicators here in Northern Indiana as a full blown depression (10% unemployment plus 10% decline in GNP). On the buy side, as the reality that jobs are gone and will probably never come back, there are going to be more GA collections from ol' granddad sitting in the attic to surface by non-collectors. My strategy is to actively market my 'Buying Comics' in all the appropriate venues within my market. On the sell side, as long as the mainstream media sources continue to describe the financial crisis as a recession and not what it is becoming, a depression, prices will remain strong. I believe there is a tipping point when the zeitgeist will realize that things are much worst -- then the market will search for a bottom. When will that happen? Since I believe what is happening in the economy is just starting its 2nd year (12/08), it is going to last another 4-5 years.

[G.A.tor]

I noticed that an eBay seller called wallstmw is offering some very nice looking books, such as a CGC 8.0 Mystery Comics 1 and a CGC 5.5 Siler Streak 6, and his eBay posts say:

 

INOTE: These books I am now listing are very unique and will not likely pop up again in this condition any time soon. These are from the core of my collection. I have cherry picked these books over my past 20-years of collecting golden age war covers.

 

I can only speculate why he's selling the "core of [his] collection" now, but I read his tag as Wall St. MW and I also noted he's auctioning off a domain name called "beatingthebear.com," so that may be a hint as to why he's taking this step now.

Mike has been selling his collection for well more than a year now... part of it was to finance art purchases, part might be due to economic downturn, but his "release" of quality books goes back to 2007, so I don't believe he is motivated by current economic conditions (at least not entirely)

[G.A.tor]

I love this thread. Lots of good commentary. Comic economics have always fascinated me.

 

It's been about four months since I last read it, and heading towards 2 months since the last comments ... So where's the GA market heading?

 

I'm especially curious if more good books are coming out. I see on other threads discussion about a nice Action 1 that's come out. Anyone know who/why that book surfaced? I've always thought that in a bad economy you might see the first and second generation collectors that bought and held on to books in the 60s and 70s to start selling if they were concerned about their income streams, either due to poor performing retirement accounts or decreased stream of revenue. I've also read that some comic book stores have fallen victim to the economic downturn, and that suggests that some store owners might want to prop up their stores by selling some of their collections. Any evidence for or against the notion that the economy is starting to prompt old collectors to convert their books into cash?

 

I've also heard that the most ever paid in cash for a comic book is $350K (or was it $250K?) and that the circle of collectors with that kind of money is very small. Anyone want to venture an educated guess about the actual number of "big money" collectors who might bid on something like the Action 1 above the $250K level?

 

the most ever paid for a book at public auction is $350K for the Pay copy of Marvel 1, by JP a few years back... that said, there have been sales of books that have cleared that price in private transactions, that the public doesn't "know" about (for the most part)

 

as far as "big money" collectors who might bid an Action 1 to above $250K...I can think of at least a dozen that I know about, if they were so inclined (thumbs u

[mikephoen]

I noticed that an eBay seller called wallstmw is offering some very nice looking books, such as a CGC 8.0 Mystery Comics 1 and a CGC 5.5 Siler Streak 6, and his eBay posts say:

 

INOTE: These books I am now listing are very unique and will not likely pop up again in this condition any time soon. These are from the core of my collection. I have cherry picked these books over my past 20-years of collecting golden age war covers.

 

I can only speculate why he's selling the "core of [his] collection" now, but I read his tag as Wall St. MW and I also noted he's auctioning off a domain name called "beatingthebear.com," so that may be a hint as to why he's taking this step now.

Mike has been selling his collection for well more than a year now... part of it was to finance art purchases, part might be due to economic downturn, but his "release" of quality books goes back to 2007, so I don't believe he is motivated by current economic conditions (at least not entirely)

 

He's also not exactly giving them away! I purchased a great book from him in 2008, and while I think the price was fair, it certainly wasnt a bargain. The ones he currently has on ebay exceed what I believe is the top of the market (not grossly, but lets call them aggressively priced).

 

Speaking of Ebay, I won a Timely last night in an open no reserve auction for almost 2.5 times the price the same book sold for in 2003. Incredibly small sample size, but at least myself and one other bidder dont think the end is nigh!

 

 

 

[podboy66]

I noticed that an eBay seller called wallstmw is offering some very nice looking books, such as a CGC 8.0 Mystery Comics 1 and a CGC 5.5 Siler Streak 6, and his eBay posts say:

 

INOTE: These books I am now listing are very unique and will not likely pop up again in this condition any time soon. These are from the core of my collection. I have cherry picked these books over my past 20-years of collecting golden age war covers.

 

I can only speculate why he's selling the "core of [his] collection" now, but I read his tag as Wall St. MW and I also noted he's auctioning off a domain name called "beatingthebear.com," so that may be a hint as to why he's taking this step now.

Mike has been selling his collection for well more than a year now... part of it was to finance art purchases, part might be due to economic downturn, but his "release" of quality books goes back to 2007, so I don't believe he is motivated by current economic conditions (at least not entirely)

 

He's also not exactly giving them away! I purchased a great book from him in 2008, and while I think the price was fair, it certainly wasnt a bargain. The ones he currently has on ebay exceed what I believe is the top of the market (not grossly, but lets call them aggressively priced).

 

Speaking of Ebay, I won a Timely last night in an open no reserve auction for almost 2.5 times the price the same book sold for in 2003. Incredibly small sample size, but at least myself and one other bidder dont think the end is nigh!

 

 

 

 

Hey Mike, what did you pick-up? Vern