When did Wolverine really become popular?? 2 2

[Prince Namor]

This statement is completely wrong. Paul Smith didn't take over for nearly 2 years after Byrne left. As you said, sales of X-men picked up around 137 and then steadily increased. By 150, the book was very hot.

 

I'm amazed at how people either have very different recollections or perhaps the dynamics were different in other markets or perhaps they've just been told false bits of information or made conclusions from incomplete information. Whatever the case may be, the distortion of what actually happened can be extreme.

 

To say the X-men didn't become popular until Paul Smith is a joke, as you stated. Not a serious statement of fact.

 

Yep, completely wrong and contradicts everyone's recollections including well-researched books like Marvel Comics: The Untold Story.

 

Where did he say it 'didn't become popular until Paul Smith took over'?

 

He said: "The book did not take off SALES WISE until Paul Smith took over on art."

 

In the quote I found, he clarifies: "In fact, the book continued climbing, slow but sure, until Paul Smith came aboard. Then the sales exploded and the whole X-Madness was truly born."

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Another quote I found on his site:

 

Posted: 08 June 2011 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 25

"By the time I left, X-Men had become a baby juggernaut, and it went on to grow to full maturity in the years that followed.

While Dave was drawing the book, as most of you know, sales kept inching up, but he could not handle a monthly grind, and Archie Goodwin, then EiC, knew the book needed to go monthly to turn the corner and get the sales engine really chugging along. That was where I came in, along with Terry Austin.

 

Sales did not explode with our arrival, but they kept climbing steadily, in small increments, and that continued after I left. The real supernova effect kicked in when Paul Smith arrived -- tho, in all honesty, that might have been just a coincidence. Full credit to Smitty, where credit is due, but this was also the same time the speculators started "noticing" the X-MEN."

[Prince Namor]

Statement of Ownership numbers:

April 1978 #110 (12months) 260,598 (nearest) 283,742

 

Steady growth

April 1979 #120 (12months) 282,634 (nearest) 264,965 (+about 20,000)

 

Mar 1980 #131 (12months) 327,387 (nearest) 311,320 (+about 45,000)

(Marvel Tean-Up #91: 426,418)

 

April 1981 #144 (12months) 345,288 (nearest) 349,845 (+about 30,000)

(Amazing Spider-man #215: 609,059)

(Marvel Tean-Up #116: 416,687)

 

Really starts to ramp up...

April 1982 #156 (12months) 414,435 (nearest) 450,936 (+about 70 to 100,000)

(Amazing Spider-man #227: 554,258)

 

Neck and Neck with Amazing Spider-man

May 1983 #169 (12months) 507,493 (nearest) 524,923 (+about 70,000)

(Amazing Spider-man #240: 513,585)

 

 

Jun 1984 #182 (12months) 546,070 (nearest) 556,783 (+about 30 to 35,000)

 

Surpasses Amazing Spider-man

Oct 1987 #222 (12months) 630,020 (nearest) 622,005 (+about 60 to 80,000)

 

May 1988 #229 (12months) 645,041 (nearest) 684,758 (+about 15 to 60,000)

(Amazing Spider-man #215: 469,913)

 

Jul 1989 #246 (12months) 633,760 (nearest) 577,440 (+about 15 to 60,000)

[delekkerste]

Let's say John Byrne is right. Great! All it does is further bolster my case that Wolverine was the biggest character in comics by 1983 when UXM under Smith soared to new heights. I doubt that was all due to Smitty, so much as it was by the two factors that Byrne mentioned:

 

1. Given the rise in back issue prices of the Byrne issues around that time, everyone was speculating and buying multiple copies of UXM back in the day. I bought 2 or 3 copies of every issue that came out, and I was certainly far from alone.

 

2. The Wolverine mini series was a smash hit (somebody help me out - I know that #1 had a print run of at least 750K, but it may have been higher) in 1982, and the ending of #4 leads directly into UXM #172. I'm sure that #172-#175 were huge, maybe even record sellers for the title, precisely because Wolverine was the most popular superhero in comics in 1982 and 1983, and everybody wanted to read about what happened after the mini-series.

 

All logic would suggest that, if Wolvie hadn't achieved superstardom by X-Men #133 and DOPF, he certainly was in a league of his own by the time his mini-series ended, which is why UXM achieved new sales heights, Wolverine won those fan polls in 1982 and 1984, and just about everyone who was collecting back then has confirmed that he had broken out into superstardom already by that time, and that it didn't just happen in the late '80s. If anything, that was the beginning of the overexposure and saturation phase; the breakout phase was unquestionably the early '80s.

[Prince Namor]

Byrne's last issue was #143? right... it was at roughly 349,000

 

a year later at: 450,000

 

a year after that at: 524,000

 

[Logan510]

Let's say John Byrne is right. Great! All it does is further bolster my case that Wolverine was the biggest character in comics by 1983 when UXM under Smith soared to new heights. I doubt that was all due to Smitty, so much as it was by the two factors that Byrne mentioned:

 

1. Given the rise in back issue prices of the Byrne issues around that time, everyone was speculating and buying multiple copies of UXM back in the day. I bought 2 or 3 copies of every issue that came out, and I was certainly far from alone.

 

2. The Wolverine mini series was a smash hit (somebody help me out - I know that #1 had a print run of at least 750K, but it may have been a million or more) in 1982, and the ending of #4 leads directly into UXM #172. I'm sure that #172-#175 were huge, maybe even record sellers for the title, precisely because Wolverine was the most popular superhero in comics in 1982 and 1983, and everybody wanted to read about what happened after the mini-series.

 

All logic would suggest that, if Wolvie hadn't achieved superstardom by X-Men #133 and DOPF, he certainly was in a league of his own by the time his mini-series ended, which is why UXM achieved new sales heights, Wolverine won those fan polls in 1982 and 1984, and just about everyone who was collecting back then has confirmed that he had broken out into superstardom already by that time, and that it didn't just happen in the late '80s. If anything, that was the beginning of the overexposure and saturation phase; the breakout phase was unquestionably the early '80s.

 

 

I never had any doubt he was a star in the early 80's. I was buying and reading those books as they came out and I know what the buzz was around the 2-3 comic stores I went to at the time. Purely anecdotal on my part, but if everyone who was buying and reading those books at the time remembers it the same way, it's probably true.

[delekkerste]

Byrne's last issue was #143? right... it was at roughly 349,000

 

a year later at: 450,000

 

a year after that at: 524,000

 

 

Great! You and Byrne were right about the sales trend, though how much of that sales trend was due to overall market/circulation growth, speculators buying up multiple copies, etc.? Not that it's either here or there; as I explained above, the sales trend only reinforces what everyone is saying about Wolverine's popularity by the time Smith finishes his run in 1983 - he's Marvel's hottest property and one of the two most popular superheroes at the publisher. Thanks for helping to further back that up. (thumbs u

[Logan510]

This statement is completely wrong. Paul Smith didn't take over for nearly 2 years after Byrne left. As you said, sales of X-men picked up around 137 and then steadily increased. By 150, the book was very hot.

 

I'm amazed at how people either have very different recollections or perhaps the dynamics were different in other markets or perhaps they've just been told false bits of information or made conclusions from incomplete information. Whatever the case may be, the distortion of what actually happened can be extreme.

 

To say the X-men didn't become popular until Paul Smith is a joke, as you stated. Not a serious statement of fact.

 

Yep, completely wrong and contradicts everyone's recollections including well-researched books like Marvel Comics: The Untold Story.

 

Where did he say it 'didn't become popular until Paul Smith took over'?

 

He said: "The book did not take off SALES WISE until Paul Smith took over on art."

 

In the quote I found, he clarifies: "In fact, the book continued climbing, slow but sure, until Paul Smith came aboard. Then the sales exploded and the whole X-Madness was truly born."

 

 

I'm not sure how what I said was misinterpreted. I would tend to believe Byrne as he was there at the time and privy to knowledge first hand that none of us have / had direct access to.

[Prince Namor]

2. The Wolverine mini series was a smash hit (somebody help me out - I know that #1 had a print run of at least 750K, but it may have been higher) in 1982, and the ending of #4 leads directly into UXM #172. I'm sure that #172-#175 were huge, maybe even record sellers for the title, precisely because Wolverine was the most popular superhero in comics in 1982 and 1983, and everybody wanted to read about what happened after the mini-series.

 

I would find it hard to believe that based on the numbers I've seen for other publications, that Wolverine's mini-series sold 750K or.... a million?

 

 

 

[Marvelfangirl]

I believe Wolverine wasn't popular till 82' with the mini-series.

He got more popular in the 90's with the X-Men re-launch & the 90's animated series.

But it wouldn't be till 2000 with the X-Men movie that Wolverine (mainly Hugh Jackman's performance) that he skyrocketed to popularity with mainstream audiences.

[Prince Namor]

This statement is completely wrong. Paul Smith didn't take over for nearly 2 years after Byrne left. As you said, sales of X-men picked up around 137 and then steadily increased. By 150, the book was very hot.

 

I'm amazed at how people either have very different recollections or perhaps the dynamics were different in other markets or perhaps they've just been told false bits of information or made conclusions from incomplete information. Whatever the case may be, the distortion of what actually happened can be extreme.

 

To say the X-men didn't become popular until Paul Smith is a joke, as you stated. Not a serious statement of fact.

 

Yep, completely wrong and contradicts everyone's recollections including well-researched books like Marvel Comics: The Untold Story.

 

Where did he say it 'didn't become popular until Paul Smith took over'?

 

He said: "The book did not take off SALES WISE until Paul Smith took over on art."

 

In the quote I found, he clarifies: "In fact, the book continued climbing, slow but sure, until Paul Smith came aboard. Then the sales exploded and the whole X-Madness was truly born."

 

 

I'm not sure how what I said was misinterpreted. I would tend to believe Byrne as he was there at the time and privy to knowledge first hand that none of us have / had direct access to.

 

And as JB has said: "they weren't paying royalties at the time, so they had no reason to lie!"

[Number 6]

As a kid I read comics, sought them out every time we went to the store, and "collected" them in the sense that I saved them, but I really wasn't dialed into the industry as a whole. So the following is purely anecdotal.

 

I remember going to the grocery store and seeing Secret Wars #1 with Wolverine on the cover and thinking to myself "oh, there's that guy that's supposed to be a really big deal". I grew up in a small farming town so the fact that I had somehow become aware of Wolverine would make me think he become pretty popular before that point.

 

By the time I got into high school 88-91 there's no question that Wolverine was everybody's favorite, I'd say as popular as Batman.

 

 

[delekkerste]

I would find it hard to believe that based on the numbers I've seen for other publications, that Wolverine's mini-series sold 750K or.... a million?

 

I've burned out Google trying to find out the print run of Wolvie #1. IIRC, someone posted the print run in a thread about how the book has held its value despite its extremely high print run and extremely high submission rate. If anyone can find the hard numbers, though, it would be appreciated.

 

In any case, I'm sure the print run and sales were both sky high, and nothing we find out is going to change the fact that Wolverine's growing popularity led to steadily rising interest in the character and UXM sales, and that the character was a bona fide superstar by 1983.

 

Also, a certain person who does not wish to be named said that Dazzler was the best selling book of 1981 (I assume he meant Dazzler #1, because there's no way the series as a whole was). According to your data above, some insignificant issue of ASM sold 609K copies in 1981. Did Dazzler #1 sell more than that? I was under the impression that it sold in the 400Ks. This makes me question if (1) all these numbers being cited are even apples to apples and (2) whether Dazzler #1 was the best selling comic of 1981. If somehow Dazzler #1 did sell more than 609K copies, then I'm sure that Wolverine #1 would have had a print run of easily 750K, if not 7-figures.

 

In any case, I'm not even sure what your position is - do you think that Wolverine did not achieve superstar status until the late '80s as a certain someone contends? Because all of the data that both you and he have dug up would seem to support the very consensus view that the character kicked into gear between 1980 and 1982 and that the mini-series put him over the top, making him one of, if not the most popular characters in comics shortly thereafter.

[VintageComics]

I'd still like to see a comparison of ASM #129 and Huk #181 values from 1980 to 1990.

[Prince Namor]

Couple of notes:

 

I've read (and believe I've seen data to prove) that Wolverine #1 is the most submitted book to CGC ever.

 

I don't believe there is any verified information as far as actual publication numbers or sell through for Wolverine #1 (or none that I've ever seen).

 

The 609,000 is number of copies PUBLISHED, not sold. There is a very big difference in those numbers, and sometime tomorrow I'm going to go back through the data (I'm at work tonight) and see if I can gather some information by pulling from that.

 

My position based on the numbers thus far is inconclusive.

 

My position based upon my memory, is that he was highly popular amongst the mutant books (which slowly grew) until Secret Wars spotlighted him and it started to grow from there. I knew OF him, but just wasn't into it.

 

My thoughts on it overall is that it seems weird that Marvel would hold off on giving him his own book when Spider-man had three and the Punisher already had one. It didn't stop them from over exposing Spidey (despite his story being told in ASM), or taking a chance on Punisher (despite being a great deal less dimensional of a character than Wolvie turned out to be).

 

Marvel is many things, but being shy about whoring out their characters, isn't one of them.

[Prince Namor]

I'd still like to see a comparison of ASM #129 and Huk #181 values from 1980 to 1990.

 

Me too.

[Dr. Balls]

Wolverine really became popular about a week ago when this discussion got reignited on the boards.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I'm not saying Wolvie reached his peak in 1982. What I am saying is that he started rising above the pack at that point in time.

 

I fully agree that he went over the top in the late 1980's when he started appearing in Punisher books.

 

 

That's the heart of what I've been saying.

 

[ashsaytr]

I think he really took off during the Hellfire Club story arc 130 -133 or so. When he was alone and slicin and dicin them up...he was already the most popular X-Man by the time the Miller Wolverine LS came out

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

You made me dig out my old Overstreets.

 

OPG 10 (80/81) $3.75

OPG 11 (81/82) $5.25

OPG 12 (82/83) $16.00

OPG 13 can't find my copy

OPG 14 (84/85) $20.00

OPG 15 (85/86) $24.00

OPG 16 (86/87) $24.00

OPG 17 (87/88) $32.00

OPG 18 (88/89) $36.00

OPG 19 (89/90) $75.00

 

What this shows is steady increases except after the mini-series when it triples and between 18 and 19 when it doubles. My recollection is that Hulk #181 sold for double OPG if not more during the early 80s.

 

Correction: The 1982 OPG (#12) came out in spring of 1982, with reported information dating back to December of 1981, six full months before Wolverine #1.

 

The really relevant OPG to reflect the mini would be #13, which came out in the spring of 1983, six months AFTER the mini...and Hulk #181 is priced at:

 

$16.

 

In other words, no change.

 

And for comparison's sake....New Teen Titans #1:

 

#11 - 60c

#12 - $15

#13 - $15

#14 - $18

 

Yes, that's right....NTT #1 was $1 less than Hulk #181 in 1982 and 1983, when it was a full 6 years younger. It is simply not possible to overstate how huge NTT #1 was at this time.

 

What would be really interesting are the market reports in the Update, which started in mid-year 1982 (I have them, I'll have to dig them out.)