PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[cloudofwit]

I don't think the reputation of Filter81 has suffered any. Elaborate on your perception of a withholding issue with Filter81. Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition? Filter and TFL were both equally wrong? :shrug:

 

No, I don't. I'm not here to assign fault. Nor do I endorse the statements of either. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

If you're not here to assign fault or endorse statements, what exactly are you good for?

 

I definitely didn't put words in your mouth. I simply said, "Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition?"

[divad]

Divad, no offense, but is it possible you wrote this post based on an absence of information? Did you read through the thread? Would you like me to send you all of my PMs that went back & forth with TFL? I'm happy to send you each and every one.

 

No. Yes. And no thanks - I read as much as I could stomach.

 

 

Its your list Divad and you can do what you want, but I can't imagine a reason for not including TFL on it.

 

Once again, it's not MY list - it's the board's list. My apologies, I didn't see a poll anywhere - shoot me a link please. I haven't conducted any business with either of you. As to this transaction, it appears to have been handled very poorly.

[TFL-migration]

I'm still waiting for this PM Offer to fly me down with a nice hotel to boot. I hear H ell is starting to freeze over! It will be totally frozen before this non existent PM is ever found!!

 

I'm waiting Adam. As are a few fellow board members are I'm sure.. Let me guess. You didn't save it!!!!! You can't save what isn't there.........

[divad]

I don't think the reputation of Filter81 has suffered any. Elaborate on your perception of a withholding issue with Filter81. Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition? Filter and TFL were both equally wrong? :shrug:

 

No, I don't. I'm not here to assign fault. Nor do I endorse the statements of either. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

If you're not here to assign fault or endorse statements, what exactly are you good for?

 

I definitely didn't put words in your mouth. I simply said, "Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition?"

 

That's implied from your statement. My answer was no.

[thehumantorch]

Unless I am wrong, and I might be. What Divad is saying is this. I was wrong for not sending payments when I had said I would. We were both wrong for not getting exact times, money amounts due dates, etc in a concrete manner. Adam was wrong with holding a book I had bought and paid for in full.... If I am wrong Divad, I do apologize.

 

 

Sending PMs promising a 10% downpayment and repeatedly failing to send the payment is a clear violation of the probation thread. If you repeatedly promise a payment and it hasn't arrived 5 months later it isn't Adam's fault for not getting exact times or due dates. Adam was more than fair and patient. The fact that he held the book for you for 5 months despite recieving zero payment and having an opportunity to sell it for $2000 more clearly shows that he is a seller that I would like to buy from.

 

TFL, I'm sorry your wife is sick and you've had to deal with tough times but a simple message to Adam months ago asking to cancel the deal would have allowed him to sell the book elsewhere.

 

 

 

[PokerKid]

Send the $2,000 and get removed from the list?

[divad]

Done. Now I think the ensuing discussion should be had elsewhere so we don't bury the list.

[TFL-migration]

Torch, Thank You. My wife is feeling much better. There was no message to be sent. That's just it. Plain and simple. When I did start payments, I paid off the Avengers 4 first. It was the first deal we made. When Adam held that book over my head like a big thunder storm directly overhead. That was it. I got really, really pizzed off. That is the exact moment when I knew the H T 1 was not going to happen. That is the truth. I can't help it if people don't think so. But that is IT in a nutshell as it were..

 

Adam.......... I'm still waiting for that PM.............. Should I start the theme to the t.v. show Jeopardy??

[bghkoyama]

Send the $2,000 and get removed from the list?

 

Send it to me and I'll put all this squabbling aside and forget about all that's been said (thumbs u

[TFL-migration]

[Filter81]

I'm still waiting for this PM Offer to fly me down with a nice hotel to boot. I hear H ell is starting to freeze over! It will be totally frozen before this non existent PM is ever found!!

 

I'm waiting Adam. As are a few fellow board members are I'm sure.. Let me guess. You didn't save it!!!!! You can't save what isn't there.........

 

 

 

TFL you are correct. Here's the PM in question. When people fly up here to Rochester to do business I always offer to put them up in a nice Hotel room. (Anyone who has ever flown up here to buy a book from me or sell me a collection will be able to vouch for me on this one.) And I would've been more than willing to cover your airfare but I guess I didn't make that clear. I got so upset after reading your responses just now I got a little carried away and what I said was incorrect. So TFL, for all the inconvenience I have caused you by misrepresenting what actually happened, let me sincerely apologize. I'm sure if you ever were to say something about me that was untrue you'd rush to correct it and apologize as well.

 

For all the board members watching, the PM actually reads as follows. If I sounded particularly coercive, please keep in mind this was written approximately 15 minutes after I finally knew for sure that I was about to get stiffed on a $25,000 sale and tempers were flaring.

 

"While we clearly have a difference of opinion here, hopefully we can at least find enough common ground to come to a solution that works for both of us. Maybe as you suggested a few months back, you might want to consider taking a trip to Rochester? You could come down with a payment towards the Human Torch 1 and leave with the Avengers 4 at the same time. Maybe this is a compromise that could work for both of us?"

 

 

[Filter81]

Done. Now I think the ensuing discussion should be had elsewhere so we don't bury the list.

 

Fair enough. This is the last I will post on this subject in this thread.

[cloudofwit]

I don't think the reputation of Filter81 has suffered any. Elaborate on your perception of a withholding issue with Filter81. Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition? Filter and TFL were both equally wrong? :shrug:

 

No, I don't. I'm not here to assign fault. Nor do I endorse the statements of either. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

If you're not here to assign fault or endorse statements, what exactly are you good for?

 

I definitely didn't put words in your mouth. I simply said, "Do you feel it's a 50/50 proposition?"

 

That's implied from your statement. My answer was no.

 

What was implied from my statement? :shrug: If you don't think it was a 50/50 proposition (you say your answer is no), then what do you think went down? Tell me because I honestly don't know what you're trying to communicate. :confused:

[djpinkpanther67]

Everything ends badly, otherwise it wouldn't end.

[mrwoogieman]

He must have posted this:

 

 

* As long as payment is optional

 

No, no. It was like this:

 

 

 

* As long as I can pay all of it on the absolute last day of my 'time payments' end date, and plus you get no deposit although I will promise one five times.

[G.A.tor]

as scotty recently said in the new Star Trek movie, "this ship is exciting"

 

TFL keeps saying that the Avg 4 deal put him off to buying the HT... what planet is this guy living on (just another ST pun)

 

If he had intended on paying for both, the down payment on the HT would have been received by adam after at least one of the multitude of SPECIFIC pms/emails where TFL stated that he was sending the downpayment (that seems pretty concrete to me)...TFL even stated ,SPECIFICALLY he had $8000 already saved on it, and would send at least 1/2 (again, a pretty specific amount!) at that time (again, a "time" was stated...Then!)

 

to recap from a few of the emails/pms (not sure if adam posted them or not, but I do have them) this one from Jan 24th (a specific date)

Plus a 15% down payment

on the Human Torch #1 to you withing the next two{two}weeks.

that is a specific amount (15% of 25K is $3750)

 

here is another one, from March 26th

I understand totally. I will be sending out full payment for the Avengers 4 and a DP on the HT 1 in a week

another specific statement of a DP (down payment) being sent in a week (that is SPECIFIC, 7 days folks)

 

and there are MANY other examples just like this where SPECIFIC statements were made about sending money within a SPECIFIC time frame (like "this week" or within 2 weeks, etc)

 

And, TFL continues to claim it was Adam's coercive nature ( ) over the shipping of the Avg 4 that nixed the deal (again 5+ months after he had never sent one payment )

 

if you reread the paraphrased transcript adam first posted

"Hi Joey,

 

I hope this isn't too much of a sticking point (if it is, we'll have to figure something out that works for both of us) but I was actually hoping to receive a down payment on the Human Torch 1 prior to shipping out the Avengers 4. I hope you understand, but I've been holding onto that book for quite some time now and haven't received a down payment for it yet.

 

So if possible, even though i'm probably being unnecessary here, for my own peace of mind I'd really prefer to have a deposit in hand prior to shipping the Avengers 4. If this works for you, great. If not, let me know and we'll figure something out.

 

Thanks!"

 

so, while adam did want to use the Avg 4 as some leverage (given the circumstance, I am sure most folks would too), in reality he only delayed 1 business day in shipping "your" book...obviously, he didn't refuse to continue shipping it, etc, etc... while you 2 went back and forth over it

 

and then one can bring up the TFL extortion of $20... unbelievable...

 

 

[G.A.tor]

I am troubled by the statements made on both sides of the coin . . . by both buyer and seller. I am also troubled by the rush to judgment and pontification of my fellow Board members who are at best, making judgments based on an absence of information. I think foolkiller (as usual) has made the best analysis.

 

I am disturbed by the buyer's delays in making promised payments, but I am also disturbed by the seller's withholding delivery of the first book that was paid for. There are statements made by both parties that don't quite ring true to me. Suffice to say, that at the total value of this transaction, the contract and payment terms should have been laid out with greater care.

 

I recently did a time payments transaction for a high dollar book (well, for both of us) that went without a hitch. I allowed the buyer to present the terms, and then I evaluated whether or not to accept them. After some thought, I accepted clear concrete terms. The buyer exceeded the terms and completed payment well in advance of the promised date.

 

I suppose a poll is the only way to resolve this issue, as I think the reputations of both parties have suffered already. I will set one up later tonight or tomorrow.

sorry just wading through the 20 new thread pages..

 

I think divad is correct in his position of wading through the facts, but as I just pointed out above, there were some pretty specific and concrete "terms" established (even if casually)... TFL broke every one of them, plain and simple, LONG before the Avg 4 deal was completed (so, that is really irrelevant to the discussion of being on probation for exceeding 30 days on a deal), and those are pretty much "indisputable" facts

[G.A.tor]

Unless I am wrong, and I might be. What Divad is saying is this. I was wrong for not sending payments when I had said I would. We were both wrong for not getting exact times, money amounts due dates, etc in a concrete manner. Adam was wrong with holding a book I had bought and paid for in full.... If I am wrong Divad, I do apologize.

wrong again, kimosabe...

you , yourself, established several EXACT times and EXACT money amounts you were sending (as I posted above)... seems pretty concrete to me

[G.A.tor]

 

I suppose a poll is the only way to resolve this issue, as I think the reputations of both parties have suffered already. I will set one up later tonight or tomorrow.

 

at last count 61 to 1 (and the "1" is under some scrutiny, if I am reading responses correctly, either it was accidental as a boardie stated, or we could "assume" that TFL would vote for himself, I know I would)...

 

pretty much UNANIMOUS...

 

so I only seem harm to one person's reputation here ...

 

and with that, my LAST statement on this subject (go ahead, applaud if you like)

[joe_collector]

Fact: Each deal has me loosing around $1,000

 

At least you are coming clean about having absolutely no intention of EVER paying for the HT book, before or after this happened.

 

That's a good first step from a deadbeat.