PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[crassus]

It is the HoS that says in effect "enough is enough", and voting is the only formula that can expresses a consensus judgment.

 

I was surprised a few months back when someone mentioned you can get off the HOS list if enough people vote for your "unbanning".

 

I would think the HOS is for a lifetime when it gets to that point in a situation or series of situations.

 

I'm only guessing, but the possibility of being voted off the HoS may have been necessary in theory to protect the integrity of the voting process itself-- i.e. what can be voted in can be voted out, what can be made by vote can be undone by vote. It might be a point of principle. Has anyone ever been voted off the HoS?

[Dr. Balls]

I have received a response from kitsune:

 

Oh snap! On noes!!! Internet forum bullies...

 

You still have it? I will buy. Let me know. I can send payment tonight if not tomorrow early morning.

 

I love it when people get angry at other people for expecting them to follow through on a transaction. I love being an internet bully. You know, pushing people around with the truth, calling flaky people 'flakes' all that bully-type stuff.

[bababooey]

For people who are looking for ideas on how to manage non-PL eligible borderline situations - just send a PM to yourself and do your own Personal PL like this sample.

 

I probably wouldn't add kitsune on the first situation but once the second issue was brought forward the history became relevant. So if you're concerned enough about forgetting problems brought up here that didn't result in a PL nom, track them yourself.

 

Boardie - PL Discussion Links

 

kitsune 1 2

 

Actually what you just did isn't a bad idea, but turn it into a sticky that can't be edited by anyone. Trying to navigate through the PL discussions is very difficult if your trying to find a certain situation because of all the chatter, but if a link was posted (kind of like the PL list) for everyone that was brought up in the discussion thread that could really help in streamlining the process of digging through posts. It would help a lot for new people to decide for themselves if they want to do business with someone or not as well.

 

I say this because there are definitely situations where someone wasn't/isn't on the PL but my personal feeling is that I don't want to have to deal with their the way someone else did. I wouldn't know that though if I hadn't closely followed the discussion thread and not all of us can keep up or have time to go back through 100's of posts to find what was going on.

Publicly it's a reverse kudos thread which isn't allowed and is subject to counterpoints, debate, scrutiny etc.. - as a personal list it allows you to blacklist whoever you damn well please for whatever reason you want without having anyone look over your shoulder or question your judgement, reasoning or personal bias.

 

If I sold here or bought more I'd probably do one.

Also to anyone creating one of these, link to post # not page # because your links won't work if you change your settings or share it with someone.

[Bosco685]

It is the HoS that says in effect "enough is enough", and voting is the only formula that can expresses a consensus judgment.

 

I was surprised a few months back when someone mentioned you can get off the HOS list if enough people vote for your "unbanning".

 

I would think the HOS is for a lifetime when it gets to that point in a situation or series of situations.

 

I'm only guessing, but the possibility of being voted off the HoS may have been necessary in theory to protect the integrity of the voting process itself-- i.e. what can be voted in can be voted out, what can be made by vote can be undone by vote. It might be a point of principle. Has anyone ever been voted off the HoS?

 

Good point!

 

I'm not sure I have seen someone come off the HOS list.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I was kinda hoping the "it's fun to attack and insult RMA" days were behind us.

 

That wasn't what happened Speedy and you know it.

 

He used the threat of PL to call a guy out to complete a transaction... then said he wasn't going to sell him the book AND continue with trying to put him on the PL.

 

No matter how dbagy the guy was, that can't be done.

 

And I'm not taking the guy's side either, he should have just paid for the book... but RMA bringing it here and going through the motions to get to the point to nominate the guy for inclusion to the PL... is the steps to COMPLETE a transactions that has been started between two boardies.

 

Its not right to dangle completion and then go all coitus interruptus on the guy no matter how bad his attitude is in the sales bed.

 

Knowing RMA's pleasantness here on the boards, I'm sure his notification of PL discussion and 72 hour time frame was probably the most sweet and sincere thing the guy had ever read as well.

 

Again the guy was wrong in dragging out the sale... but the PL discussion board and 72 hour notification rule did what it was supposed to do if the guy offered to pay for the item... which is complete the sale.

Really? You questioned his sanity, and said you've done so on many occasions. Sorry if I'm wrong, but that felt like standard jump-on-RMA stuff. Would you have said that to me if I offered someone up for the PL, the dude was then a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed and I said I no longer wanted to have anything to do with him?

 

Once he was told he couldn't put the kid on the PL without having to be open to a resolution, he let it go, no?

 

Yes Speedy, I probably would have if you would have offered someone up to the PL and acted the same way.

 

The way its now beginning to appear is that RMA wasn't going to sell the book to the kid no matter what the kid did.

 

RMA himself stated this...

 

I accept the fact that he cannot be put on the PL if he offers to pay. I was hoping he would ignore that, so that he could be put on the probation list.

 

I read that as "I don't want him to pay now (after using the PL discussion board's 72 hour response rule to make him pay)... I want to stick it to him".

 

I am not an RMA basher. Yep I question his sanity... but that's not bashing.

 

Just pointing out that RMA can't use the PL discussion board to make someone pay, then not accept their payment, and then be disappointed he can't put them on the PL list.

 

My comment about his sanity stems from RMA stating my posts were out of some sort of spite towards him... which isn't the case since I want him to complete the sale.

 

I just think he's mad because his actions show what spite is and he's using the PL discussion board not for it's intended use, which I hate to tell you first and foremost is to "complete" transactions" between boardies.

 

The PL list warns others of uncompleted transactions... the discussion trys to prevent it from getting that far.

 

Couple of things need to be pointed out again.

 

First, the Probation List is, first and foremost, to warn others of those who act in bad faith.

 

Second...offering to sell to those on the Probation List under specific conditions is not "spitting on it." It is recognizing the fact that it is an extremely flawed system, demonstrated by the fact that I have been threatened with being put on it myself for (A) offering to sell to those on it, and (B) refusing to sell a book to someone who behaves like a smartass brat. Acknowledging that is not "spitting on it." It does serve a purpose, even in its flawed state. In fact, accepting and living by its conditions, even if I don't like them, is the opposite of "spitting on it."

 

There continue to be people here who act in bad faith with their posts.

 

Third, questioning someone's sanity in public is very much bashing them, and it is laughably disingenuous to claim otherwise.

 

Fourth, Bio-Rupp continues to state things which are untrue. I did not "use the PL to get him to pay." That's coercion and manipulation and NOT what the PL is for. I wanted kitsune on the PL because he failed to follow through with a transaction, and did it in a disrespectful way. The reply to the PL notice was simply the icing on the cake. That he skated on a technicality is one of the reasons why the PL is flawed (see above.)

 

Finally, I have already stated my motives and reasons for doing what I have done. Therefore, continued "I think he's doing this because of that" speculations are just veiled insults.

 

I do wish he'd stop saying these things.

[Park]

I was kinda hoping the "it's fun to attack and insult RMA" days were behind us.

 

That wasn't what happened Speedy and you know it.

 

He used the threat of PL to call a guy out to complete a transaction... then said he wasn't going to sell him the book AND continue with trying to put him on the PL.

 

No matter how dbagy the guy was, that can't be done.

 

And I'm not taking the guy's side either, he should have just paid for the book... but RMA bringing it here and going through the motions to get to the point to nominate the guy for inclusion to the PL... is the steps to COMPLETE a transactions that has been started between two boardies.

 

Its not right to dangle completion and then go all coitus interruptus on the guy no matter how bad his attitude is in the sales bed.

 

Knowing RMA's pleasantness here on the boards, I'm sure his notification of PL discussion and 72 hour time frame was probably the most sweet and sincere thing the guy had ever read as well.

 

Again the guy was wrong in dragging out the sale... but the PL discussion board and 72 hour notification rule did what it was supposed to do if the guy offered to pay for the item... which is complete the sale.

 

This is complete BS. Not surprising that you can't separate your feelings from fact but this is embarrassing.

 

RMA brought the situation before the boards via the discussion thread and asked what he could do. I would tell you to go read it again and see where you have made a Grand Canyon size leap in logic but you have already entered the "answer the question" phase.

 

Using your same logic, every buyer from one of your sales thread could do the same thing and you would be fine with it right? No?

 

Gimme a break.

[Kitsune]

yeah i messaged him the night i brought it up here for the first time..

 

Do you mean your post of July 17? I understand that you have been trying to get a satisfactory response via PM, but have you sent him a PM specifically saying "I am nominating you for the PL list" etc. The rules give the offender 72hrs after getting notice to reply here with their side of the story.

 

Wait, the offender has to reply HERE?

 

Cool.

 

Kitsune...? Tell your side of the story.

 

Time for the PL.

He doesn't have to. You just gotta send him a PM and then give him 72 hours to tell his side, if he wants to.

 

Which he did and the guy offered to pay... no matter how unappreciative he did it... he did offer to pay.

 

Not saying he will...just that according to RMA post of his PM here... that he did offer.

True, which would put a cramp in RMA's style if he were still trying to put the dude on the PL (is he?). But it doesn't give kitsune the right to turn the tables.

 

Could be but not addressed in the rules.

Isn't it? After 30 days, if the buyer hasn't paid, their deal has gone south. The seller is free to resell, or put the buyer on the PL. If the seller were at the mercy of the buyer's coming back at any time demanding the comic, that'd make little sense, don't you think?

 

 

That would be counter-intuitive, I agree.

 

Given the purpose and intent of "the list", the potential probie isn't given such power or ability.

 

 

All I'm saying is Chris... if RMA brings it here and wants to paid, and the guy offers to pay... no matter how rude he is, the whole reason behind coming to this thread worked.

 

You are, for the third time, mistaken.

 

I accept the fact that he cannot be put on the PL if he offers to pay.

 

I was hoping he would ignore that, so that he could be put on the probation list. This is, as has been mentioned, not the first time he has done this.

 

However, due to the consistently disrespectful manner in which kitsune has behaved (asking for additional time to pay AFTER posting an unqualified , promising to pay by the end of June, then not paying without any notification as to why, ignoring PMs, then stating that he wouldn't be paying until after SDCC, etc etc etc,), I have chosen not to sell the book to him.

 

If that gets him off the PL hook...so be it.

 

It should not, however, then turn around and be grounds for putting me on instead.

 

I question your motives.

 

 

 

 

First off, I admit it was my fault that I didn't pay on time.

 

However, on July 21st, RMA did not offer me a last chance to pay. I stated I will by on 6/21. On 7/09 he stated if I didn't pay he put on eBay.

 

By the way, not everybody can be on the computer and check their pm's constantly, people have lifes to live...

 

I didn't reply because I didn't check this forum and with his statement if I didn't pay that day he put it up on eBay. So no point in replying...

 

On 7/21/2013 he pm me stating he putting me on PL. On 7/22 regardless of my comment to him, I offer to pay that night or the next day. Yet he did not reply with my offer to resolve his issues.

 

7/21 was the full 30 days to pay according to what people stated here to complete a transaction at the utmost latest. Also he had to give me 72 hours to resolve issues which he didn't.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6880022&fpart=1745

 

As far as Mr. Ball's, I never stated I would buy your infinity gauntlet set. I stated I must have but by no means did I put up a

 

That can be seen here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1646534&nt=106&fpart=1

 

My comment on Mr. Ball's thread...

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6808486&fpart=2

 

Again, I stated it was my fault for not paying, which I admit. However, I made it to where I tried to make amends by paying but seller did not respond. Regardless if you or he have perceived my reply as douchey or whatever you think, I did offer to pay that night or tomorrow morning.

 

People stated the rules to resolve the matter prior to putting on PL within 72 hours and if that is the case; I have replied within 24 hours to offer to resolve this matter.

 

[Kitsune]

I was kinda hoping the "it's fun to attack and insult RMA" days were behind us.

 

That wasn't what happened Speedy and you know it.

 

He used the threat of PL to call a guy out to complete a transaction... then said he wasn't going to sell him the book AND continue with trying to put him on the PL.

 

No matter how dbagy the guy was, that can't be done.

 

And I'm not taking the guy's side either, he should have just paid for the book... but RMA bringing it here and going through the motions to get to the point to nominate the guy for inclusion to the PL... is the steps to COMPLETE a transactions that has been started between two boardies.

 

Its not right to dangle completion and then go all coitus interruptus on the guy no matter how bad his attitude is in the sales bed.

 

Knowing RMA's pleasantness here on the boards, I'm sure his notification of PL discussion and 72 hour time frame was probably the most sweet and sincere thing the guy had ever read as well.

 

Again the guy was wrong in dragging out the sale... but the PL discussion board and 72 hour notification rule did what it was supposed to do if the guy offered to pay for the item... which is complete the sale.

 

This is complete BS. Not surprising that you can't separate your feelings from fact but this is embarrassing.

 

RMA brought the situation before the boards via the discussion thread and asked what he could do. I would tell you to go read it again and see where you have made a Grand Canyon size leap in logic but you have already entered the "answer the question" phase.

 

Using your same logic, every buyer from one of your sales thread could do the same thing and you would be fine with it right? No?

 

Gimme a break.

 

He never brought anything to the board on what he should or could do, he just nominated...

[Bosco685]

This is complete BS. Not surprising that you can't separate your feelings from fact but this is embarrassing.

 

RMA brought the situation before the boards via the discussion thread and asked what he could do. I would tell you to go read it again and see where you have made a Grand Canyon size leap in logic but you have already entered the "answer the question" phase.

 

Using your same logic, every buyer from one of your sales thread could do the same thing and you would be fine with it right? No?

 

Gimme a break.

 

So let me ask.

 

I accept the fact that he cannot be put on the PL if he offers to pay. I was hoping he would ignore that, so that he could be put on the probation list.

 

If this statement Bio-Rupp peeled out is misinterpretted, and RMA is just looking to resolve an outstanding transaction, then doesn't the official part of the transaction concern go away when kitsune offered to pay? Or did all that happen beyond the normal 30 day waiting period and the resolution period allowed?

 

There is still an awareness concern that if people are seeing a trend with kitsune's behavior, they should take this into consideration for the future. Then they can take the approach Bababooey recommended to post a personal tracking note for themselves.

[Beige]

Surely this is simple.

Kitsune - pay RMA.

Upon receipt of payment - ship the book.

RMA, I'm sure has photographic details of his book so Kitsune cannot pull a 'fast-one' and say it was overgraded or somesuch nonsense.

 

If Kitsune doesn't pay - then its a blatant extracting of the urine, so stick him on the Probation List.

Kitsune, you disrespect to RMA is typical of your generation, but you have a chance to make amends.

Pay the man.

RMA - accept it.

 

It's all over and done with and we can sing kumbaya around a campfire.

 

 

[Kitsune]

Surely this is simple.

Kitsune - pay RMA.

Upon receipt of payment - ship the book.

RMA, I'm sure has photographic details of his book so Kitsune cannot pull a 'fast-one' and say it was overgraded or somesuch nonsense.

 

If Kitsune doesn't pay - then its a blatant extracting of the urine, so stick him on the Probation List.

Kitsune, you disrespect to RMA is typical of your generation, but you have a chance to make amends.

Pay the man.

RMA - accept it.

 

It's all over and done with and we can sing kumbaya around a campfire.

 

 

He pm me on the 21st of July stating putting me on PL. I replied on 22nd of July stating I pay that night or next morning but no response from him except his post in this thread.

 

I tried to make amends for the problems that I have caused but it seems he doesn't want too. Nothing I can do but oh well...

 

It's funny how he gets all butt hurt to my comment..

 

 

[miraclemet]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

unfortunately we dont have a Probation List just for people lacking social or life skills.

 

my 2 cents, I would have said no to the after the fact conditions and put the book back as available in my sales thread. or once the 2nd request for time was made I would have asked to cancel the transaction with the buyer since it was obvious that his making payment was a hardship. Of course hindsight is 20/20...

 

sorry RMA

 

[zuckuss2003]

Surely this is simple.

Kitsune - pay RMA.

Upon receipt of payment - ship the book.

RMA, I'm sure has photographic details of his book so Kitsune cannot pull a 'fast-one' and say it was overgraded or somesuch nonsense.

 

If Kitsune doesn't pay - then its a blatant extracting of the urine, so stick him on the Probation List.

Kitsune, you disrespect to RMA is typical of your generation, but you have a chance to make amends.

Pay the man.

RMA - accept it.

 

It's all over and done with and we can sing kumbaya around a campfire.

 

 

He pm me on the 21st of July stating putting me on PL. I replied on 22nd of July stating I pay that night or next morning but no response from him except his post in this thread.

 

I tried to make amends for the problems that I have caused but it seems he doesn't want too. Nothing I can do but oh well...

 

It's funny how he gets all butt hurt to my comment..

 

 

Because your comment was childish. Adults do not behave like that. This forum is for adults. Edited July 23, 2013 by zuckuss2003

[miraclemet]

[ I replied on 22nd of July stating I pay that night or next morning

 

so you've paid him? (I ask since its the afternoon of the 23rd)

[Kitsune]

1. kitsune agreed to buy something from RMA

2. kitsune threw conditions onto the purchase after the fact (end of June payment) which RMA (begrudgingly) agreed to.

3. after date passed, RMA asked kitsune if he was still interested in the book, to which kitsune threw additional conditions onto the transaction after not fulfilling the conditions in #2, which RMA didnt appear to agree to (payment after SDCC).

 

Facts I think...

A. Agreement was for payment by end of June (based on conditions in #2)

B. Both parties have 30 days to complete the transaction by the agreed upon terms (even those begrudgingly agreed to) before either party can make a PL nomination.

 

So I think technically that means that kitsune has until the end of this month to complete the transaction and meet his agreed to obligation.

 

RMA Im on your side that this guy is a poor buyer. Throwing up terms after the "I'll take it" is a sketchy way to start a transaction, much less his demeanor after that point. Dont think Im siding with him on this, please.

 

I know there's been an outstanding question in the past that when other terms are agreed to (specific payment dates) when does the 30 day clock start ticking? I think it was decided its when the payment date hits, so basedon that kitsune is not PL eligible yet (at least not for another 7 days).

 

unfortunately we dont have a Probation List just for people lacking social or life skills.

 

my 2 cents, I would have said no to the after the fact conditions and put the book back as available in my sales thread. or once the 2nd request for time was made I would have asked to cancel the transaction with the buyer since it was obvious that his making payment was a hardship. Of course hindsight is 20/20...

 

sorry RMA

 

Never put or threw in conditions. I asked if I could and he agreed.

 

For instance:

 

I never stated I will buy but will only pay on these conditions...etc...

However, I did stated I will buy and I ASKED IF I could pay after a certain date...and yet he agreed to give me a grace period. No conditions on my end. How can there be conditions when I purely asked if it was okay?

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by kitsune

[vader2001]

My head is spinning between this thread and the IM 1 9.4 thread.

 

So kitsune, if you never intended to buy the Gauntlet set when you threw up the "I must have" why didn't you say that to the good Dr? I took that as "I'll take it" also.

 

[Kitsune]

[ I replied on 22nd of July stating I pay that night or next morning

 

so you've paid him? (I ask since its the afternoon of the 23rd)

 

How can you pay when they don't reply or cooperate?

[miraclemet]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

[Bosco685]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

 

Is it that cut and dry at this point. He pays RMA, and RMA mails the book?

[bababooey]

You have his paypal address?

 

Send him the money.

 

That was your obligation.

That's not RMA's desired resolution.

 

This discussion started because the payment option was taken off the table as per this post.

 

Also to kitsune, take down the PM screenshot with RMA's personal info.