PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[J DUB]

According to what you guys are saying for Menace:

 

He made right with me on my refund. check

He sent the artist the proper paperwork for the opp. check

 

He should not be on a list at all.

 

I wish everyone luck who deals with him in the future.

[slym2none]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

[Bosco685]

I am not that interested. I also feel that his flipping the bird to the forum would essentially prevent him from being removed.

 

I didn't vote in his or Menace's poll because I haven't really frequented this sub-forum and felt I must have been missing something when the poll results were so lopsided in favor of HOS.

 

One additional thing Solarcadet did - or was potentially going to do - was during the Superman "variant" discussion that really bothered some people. I had forgot about this until a gentle PM reminder recently.

 

When he was stating this was a limited DC variant that would be rare to track down, that was one scenario that turned out not to be correct. When he offered to sell some people this book in advance, this was dangerous territory. Especially when it came out it was just a German reprint, which he probably knew about already due to his international comic focus.

 

If anyone had taken him up on this and wanted their money back, would he have refunded their money? Probably after a few people complained. But it was still an odd situation nonetheless.

Guilty until proven innocent :shrug:

 

I said "potentially" for a reason.

 

But if anyone is okay with one of the items that was brought up (lying about his Vietnam War veteran father dying to get out of a transaction), then I would assume the transaction details change would be PL worthy.

[Hado]

Was it to get out of a transaction?

 

I'm not going to defend that statement, it's still difficult to understand, though I do still believe there is something lost in translation, as English isn't Solarcadet's first language.

 

It is what it is, but people's votes should be on what can be proven, not on potential.

[J DUB]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

[slym2none]

There was talk of a third list for people that are repeat offenders.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[jaybuck43]

Yup I proposed exactly that a few weeks ago and variations of it have been proposed in the past as I understand it. I'll dig through them to bump it up after I get back from lunch. Basically a repeat offenders list.

[Bosco685]

Was it to get out of a transaction?

 

I'm not going to defend that statement, it's still difficult to understand, though I do still believe there is something lost in translation, as English isn't Solarcadet's first language.

 

It is what it is, but people's votes should be on what can be proven, not on potential.

 

I agree on HOS should be based on actions - not potential threats. Otherwise, everyone that is assumed to be a shill for a banned forumite may end up here.

 

But can you see any of your most trusted board members pulling something like that?

[Ryan.]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

This is probably more a job for the Signature Series decision makers.

[Hado]

Was it to get out of a transaction?

 

I'm not going to defend that statement, it's still difficult to understand, though I do still believe there is something lost in translation, as English isn't Solarcadet's first language.

 

It is what it is, but people's votes should be on what can be proven, not on potential.

 

I agree on HOS should be based on actions - not potential threats. Otherwise, everyone that is assumed to be a shill for a banned forumite may end up here.

 

But can you see any of your most trusted board members pulling something like that?

Some of the most vocal forumites, have posted some crazy things, and if they were being hunted by the mob I'm sure those offensive posts would see the light of day.

 

[J DUB]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

This is probably more a job for the Signature Series decision makers.

 

Not in my opinion. Some of these offenses were from Sales threads. Not just sketch opps.

[Logan510]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

 

I agree with you, it's very annoying.

[J DUB]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

I agree with you, it's very annoying.

 

Its the main reason why I have started to say this in my sales thread:

 

No probies or Hall of shame members or people I just do not like

 

Cause if you just say listers, then you continue to deal with these kinds of people.

[Ryan.]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

This is probably more a job for the Signature Series decision makers.

 

Not in my opinion. Some of these offenses were from Sales threads. Not just sketch opps.

 

I may have missed the details regarding the sales threads. Those instances would surely be up for PL/HoS discussion. Regarding the sketch opps I'm not sure the PL and HoS are equipped to handle that as long as CGC is unwilling to swab the gunk out its own crevices.

[N/A]

I blame the influx of 2013 noobs voting in a poll they didn't understand.

Although I'm a 2013 noob myself, I'm afraid there's probably some truth to this statement...I was thinking about this when reading the thread the other day. There are posts in this discussion from at least one noob essentially admitting that they voted in an uninformed fashion (i.e., didn't realize the meaning of the HOS). It's similar to the dangers of uninformed voters out there in real society. Makes me think we should discuss some sort of membership duration requirement for voting in HOS polls (similar to the discussion about new members starting sales threads)...although I suspect the technological demands to enforce would be a difficult hurdle. At minimum, maybe this should alert you veterans to how important it is for you to turnout in these polls to overcome the very real "uninformed voter" problem.

 

Ed,

 

I guess you missed my post where the people who went through with this, who started the poll and who convinced the original request from PL to HOS were members who have been here for quite some time.

 

What about all the non noobs members who said that they didn't vote as they weren't sure what was going on.

 

It seems this "noob" argument is a poor excuse for the real failure here.

 

I read your post. It was noobs. It is not a poor argument.

[N/A]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

What would you like to do? The discussion here as well as any future incidents is well documented. I would assume his opps will be scrutinized.

[J DUB]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

What would you like to do? The discussion here as well as any future incidents is well documented. I would assume his opps will be scrutinized.

 

Its not up to me. I am asking the people who continue to stick up for these people and their removal to say how this benefits the community in the long run. The lists have worked but are flawed. That is why I stated I have my own list. If people were on a list, then I will not deal with them. You play with fire, you are bound to get burned. I have seen repeat offenders. But on the flip side, I have seen people shape up and never get back on the list. But how many chances do people get?

 

The problem with ANOTHER list there will be a chance to get voted back off. So I am not in favor of another list.

 

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

[Bosco685]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

[seanfingh]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

 

This is exactly right.

[J DUB]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

 

This is exactly right.

 

I get that. The main focus for only positive kudos threads is based on this.

 

But people blame it on the noobs. That is not the case here. Many people were affected by his actions. People in his numerous opps, plus people in his sales threads that he never had enough books for etc. Not just noobs. People in the same situations that I was in are scared to come forward. I waited 5 months to come forward and people still harp on me for that. I can see how people can vote in favor of him but never state their opinions.

 

People use excuses for his use of emails instead of pms. I sent it to both. His response to my email was that it was in his "spam" and that he was sorry.

 

I hope people will look at these conversations and learn from them.

 

There are risks from opps. That is why I no longer take part in them. I used to do 20-30 a year.