PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jaybuck43]

To nominate him, you must give him 30 days to make the situation right. In other words, if he is wanting and willing to buy the book from you, he should be able to. Otherwise, there would be no way for him to get off the list.

 

No matter which way it goes though, it will still be 30 days before he can be nominated for the list.

 

Nope. Rule 1 ©

c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else.

 

Then burn the witch!

 

We still need to be clear as to whether or not he was a board member at the time, and that it wasn't just from e-bay.

 

And wouldn't the newbie have a case for putting Hulk44 on the list for refusing to sell the book he paid for?

 

I was not a board member when I asked Court for the PayPal invoice from the Ebay offer. I had no clue that Court was a member of these boards. If I did, none of this would have happened.

 

I saw Hulk's offer on the boards, as it's free to read without registration, and his mention that he had a very expensive book on Ebay. I got on Ebay, found the book and Hulk's Ebay handle, and messaged Hulk via Ebay about getting registered for these boards and claiming/buying his cheaper book.

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

[oakman29]

I think all parties involved should chalk it up to experience,and move on from there.Maybe this new person will remember not to do this again.

[Speedy-D]

To nominate him, you must give him 30 days to make the situation right. In other words, if he is wanting and willing to buy the book from you, he should be able to. Otherwise, there would be no way for him to get off the list.

 

No matter which way it goes though, it will still be 30 days before he can be nominated for the list.

 

Nope. Rule 1 ©

c) The 30-day rule is suspended if the accused refuses to complete the transaction or if the transaction cannot be completed due to, for example, the item being sold to someone else.

 

Then burn the witch!

 

We still need to be clear as to whether or not he was a board member at the time, and that it wasn't just from e-bay.

 

 

And wouldn't the newbie have a case for putting Hulk44 on the list for refusing to sell the book he paid for?

I don't get that part.

Because a transaction that can be nominated to the PL has to be between two boardies, though it does not have to take place ON the boards. Joes point (and it is a valid one) is that at the time he made the deal with court he was not a boardie. What makes it difficult is that at the time he BROKE the transaction, he WAS a boardie... so idk

Nope, that sounds too nice to me. They're Boardies now, and the point is to help our community. I don't buy that loophole.

[joecgcmaniac]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

[Athaxto-migration]

Also, I'd recommend not burning your bridges here. As you've already noticed this is a great place to buy and sell comics. If you have any interest in jjeanius' comic, I say buy it. This can easily be chalked up to your not knowing how things are done here, and I bet you'll be forgiven if you don't get your back up prematurely.

 

After putting my name and Ebay handle on here, as well as asking that people ban me on EBay simply because I wasn't aware of prior friendships between sellers and I simply found a better deal before money changed hands, I don't think I will give him my money.

 

If that means not buying on this board, so be it.

[jaybuck43]

No. Hulk44 just like all of us has the right to maintain a list of buyers he won't sell to. In this case he is negating a sale to a buyer who is actively trying to screw over another boardie. Definitely acceptable not to go through with that sale.

Hulk44 helped the guy sign up ...he signed up at 2:41 today & Hulk's rules don't state that he may choose not to sell to specific people.

 

 

Ok. I'll give you that.

[bababooey]

No. Hulk44 just like all of us has the right to maintain a list of buyers he won't sell to. In this case he is negating a sale to a buyer who is actively trying to screw over another boardie. Definitely acceptable not to go through with that sale.

Hulk44 helped the guy sign up ...he signed up at 2:41 today & Hulk's rules don't state that he may choose not to sell to specific people.

 

 

hasn't he gone ahead and sold the book to someone else while all this has transpired?

This is in reference to joe's comment about him being a non-boardie when backing out & being a boardie when Hulk44 backed out on him. ie - what's PL eligible

 

My point was to correct Jaybuck not to discuss any path to resolution, nomination etc..

[Speedy-D]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

POV or no, I still don't buy it. They're both Boardies, and that's what this is about. Saying one of them wasn't a Boardie yesterday but is today? Seems silly to me.

[joecgcmaniac]

No. Hulk44 just like all of us has the right to maintain a list of buyers he won't sell to. In this case he is negating a sale to a buyer who is actively trying to screw over another boardie. Definitely acceptable not to go through with that sale.

Hulk44 helped the guy sign up ...he signed up at 2:41 today & Hulk's rules don't state that he may choose not to sell to specific people.

 

 

hasn't he gone ahead and sold the book to someone else while all this has transpired?

 

Which theoretically means, Hulk44 could be put on the probation list.

[jsilverjanet]

Also, I'd recommend not burning your bridges here. As you've already noticed this is a great place to buy and sell comics. If you have any interest in jjeanius' comic, I say buy it. This can easily be chalked up to your not knowing how things are done here, and I bet you'll be forgiven if you don't get your back up prematurely.

 

After putting my name and Ebay handle on here, as well as asking that people ban me on EBay simply because I wasn't aware of prior friendships between sellers and I simply found a better deal before money changed hands, I don't think I will give him my money.

 

If that means not buying on this board, so be it.

 

huge mistake

[Speedy-D]

Also, I'd recommend not burning your bridges here. As you've already noticed this is a great place to buy and sell comics. If you have any interest in jjeanius' comic, I say buy it. This can easily be chalked up to your not knowing how things are done here, and I bet you'll be forgiven if you don't get your back up prematurely.

 

After putting my name and Ebay handle on here, as well as asking that people ban me on EBay simply because I wasn't aware of prior friendships between sellers and I simply found a better deal before money changed hands, I don't think I will give him my money.

 

If that means not buying on this board, so be it.

It's your call m'man. But take my word for it...There is not a single better place to buy comics, and certainly no better place to network for that hard-to-find issue. Not ebay, conventions, Heritage, LCSes ... nowhere.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Speedy-D

[CAHokie]

In situations like this I say we go with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law. There may be loopholes to get him out of being nominated by the letter but no matter what he broke it in spirit.

 

Edited January 4, 2014 by CAHokie

[Athaxto-migration]

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

 

The book (listed as a "last one") was still a "buy now" sale on EBay for 12+ hours time after I received the invoice. At what point does the seller acknowledge a "locked-in" deal and remove it so others can't buy the last one?

 

Both Court and I are at fault for not pulling the trigger. If he had ended the Ebay sale after I asked for the invoice (he had a long time to do so but never did), none of this would have happened.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Athaxto

[joecgcmaniac]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

POV or no, I still don't buy it. They're both Boardies, and that's what this is about. Saying one of them wasn't a Boardie yesterday but is today? Seems silly to me.

 

It's not my fault the rules were written up and interpreted that way.

 

Within the "letter of the law", and how it has been interpreted, Pov's view on the matter is the prevailing view.

 

Perhaps we need to form more committees to muddle up the probation process even more than it is getting.

[Speedy-D]

In situations like this I say we go with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law. There may be loopholes to get him out of being nominated by the letter but no matter what he broke it in spirit. It is just a short 30 Day probation right? I would say that I doubt he realized what he was doing board wise. As a new member that has already ruffled feathers on his first post he should be willing to take that 30 days with no complaint.

What 30 days are you talking about? The PL does not have a 30 day time limit ... there's 30 after a transaction begins before a Boardie can be nominated, but once on the list you stay there until you make good.

[Speedy-D]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

POV or no, I still don't buy it. They're both Boardies, and that's what this is about. Saying one of them wasn't a Boardie yesterday but is today? Seems silly to me.

 

It's not my fault the rules were written up and interpreted that way.

 

Within the "letter of the law", and how it has been interpreted, Pov's view on the matter is the prevailing view.

 

Perhaps we need to form more committees to muddle up the probation process even more than it is getting.

I'm not blaming you and I'm not asking for any committees. I just don't buy it.

 

EDIT: removed the :shrug: That fella's become way too passive aggressive.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Speedy-D

[CAHokie]

In situations like this I say we go with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law. There may be loopholes to get him out of being nominated by the letter but no matter what he broke it in spirit. It is just a short 30 Day probation right? I would say that I doubt he realized what he was doing board wise. As a new member that has already ruffled feathers on his first post he should be willing to take that 30 days with no complaint.

What 30 days are you talking about? The PL does not have a 30 day time limit ... there's 30 after a transaction begins before a Boardie can be nominated, but once on the list you stay there until you make good.

 

Yep, sorry Speedy, I missread that part.

[jaybuck43]

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

 

The book (listed as a "last one") was still for a "buy now" sale on EBay for 12+ hours time after I received the invoice. At what point does the seller acknowledge a "locked-in" deal and remove it so others can't buy the last one?

 

Both Court and I are at fault for not pulling the trigger. If he had ended the Ebay sale after I asked for the invoice (he had a long time to do so but never did), none of this would have happened.

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

[Speedy-D]

In situations like this I say we go with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law. There may be loopholes to get him out of being nominated by the letter but no matter what he broke it in spirit. It is just a short 30 Day probation right? I would say that I doubt he realized what he was doing board wise. As a new member that has already ruffled feathers on his first post he should be willing to take that 30 days with no complaint.

What 30 days are you talking about? The PL does not have a 30 day time limit ... there's 30 after a transaction begins before a Boardie can be nominated, but once on the list you stay there until you make good.

 

Yep, sorry Speedy, I missread that part.

I should hope so! A misreading like that'll get you on the list right quick!

[Speedy-D]

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

 

The book (listed as a "last one") was still for a "buy now" sale on EBay for 12+ hours time after I received the invoice. At what point does the seller acknowledge a "locked-in" deal and remove it so others can't buy the last one?

 

Both Court and I are at fault for not pulling the trigger. If he had ended the Ebay sale after I asked for the invoice (he had a long time to do so but never did), none of this would have happened.

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.