PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[skypinkblu]

I don't know enough of the story to vote in this poll,but if Dice doesn't feel he belongs,I trust him on his views.

 

Does he need to be raked over the coals a little for his actions? Probably.

Is he a crook, con man, and the worst of the worst on these boards? Absolutely not.

 

I have no skin in the game and I'm not one of his buddies, but I hate seeing the guy lumped in with actual thieves. The guy isn't a thief.

If he is, nobody has stepped up to prove it yet.

 

The Hall of Shame is a serious charge and shouldn't be handled so flippantly.

 

 

I agree. He's not someone I'd be comfortable dealing with unless he gets his act together, but not yet HOS material.

 

Thanks for starting the poll Steve, I changed the title of this post so we don't get confused

[jsilverjanet]

I blame the influx of 2013 noobs voting in a poll they didn't understand.

Although I'm a 2013 noob myself, I'm afraid there's probably some truth to this statement...I was thinking about this when reading the thread the other day. There are posts in this discussion from at least one noob essentially admitting that they voted in an uninformed fashion (i.e., didn't realize the meaning of the HOS). It's similar to the dangers of uninformed voters out there in real society. Makes me think we should discuss some sort of membership duration requirement for voting in HOS polls (similar to the discussion about new members starting sales threads)...although I suspect the technological demands to enforce would be a difficult hurdle. At minimum, maybe this should alert you veterans to how important it is for you to turnout in these polls to overcome the very real "uninformed voter" problem.

 

Ed,

 

I guess you missed my post where the people who went through with this, who started the poll and who convinced the original request from PL to HOS were members who have been here for quite some time.

 

What about all the non noobs members who said that they didn't vote as they weren't sure what was going on.

 

It seems this "noob" argument is a poor excuse for the real failure here.

[DiceX]

I blame the influx of 2013 noobs voting in a poll they didn't understand.

Although I'm a 2013 noob myself, I'm afraid there's probably some truth to this statement...I was thinking about this when reading the thread the other day. There are posts in this discussion from at least one noob essentially admitting that they voted in an uninformed fashion (i.e., didn't realize the meaning of the HOS). It's similar to the dangers of uninformed voters out there in real society. Makes me think we should discuss some sort of membership duration requirement for voting in HOS polls (similar to the discussion about new members starting sales threads)...although I suspect the technological demands to enforce would be a difficult hurdle. At minimum, maybe this should alert you veterans to how important it is for you to turnout in these polls to overcome the very real "uninformed voter" problem.

 

Ed,

 

I guess you missed my post where the people who went through with this, who started the poll and who convinced the original request from PL to HOS were members who have been here for quite some time.

 

What about all the non noobs members who said that they didn't vote as they weren't sure what was going on.

 

It seems this "noob" argument is a poor excuse for the real failure here.

 

I assure you it was said in jest.

 

 

[EC ed]

I assure you it was said in jest.

Actually not said in jest at all, Steve - I was quite sincere.

 

However, Hector, I get your point...voters can be uninformed regardless of their membership duration...I agree with that. Not sure how to address the "uninformed veteran voter" issue. Just thinking out loud, in any event...

[Bosco685]

I assure you it was said in jest.

Actually not said in jest at all, Steve - I was quite sincere.

 

However, Hector, I get your point...voters can be uninformed regardless of their membership duration...I agree with that. Not sure how to address the "uninformed veteran voter" issue. Just thinking out loud, in any event...

 

That was the point of my earlier post.

 

This clearly appears to be a case where people just voted based on the majority. But to have that many people vote this way (71% or 84/118) is a surprise.

 

84 members voted to add Menace to the HOS out of 118. That has to be a mixture of new and long-time members.

[DiceX]

I assure you it was said in jest.

Actually not said in jest at all, Steve - I was quite sincere.

 

However, Hector, I get your point...voters can be uninformed regardless of their membership duration...I agree with that. Not sure how to address the "uninformed veteran voter" issue. Just thinking out loud, in any event...

 

I meant that when I brought it up my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek

 

Regardless, now that everyone is more informed of the details and are aware of the intent of the HOS list, let's see how the new poll shakes out.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

I would suggest putting why he should be removed from the list. It would help voters not make the same mistake twice

 

Also a question for the group, even though the current tally is private, can we as individuals voice how we voted and why?

 

 

[HarveySwick]

Good idea as to the reason for the poll and removal from the list.

 

I voted to remove him because he lacked any sort of intent to rip people off on his part or any malicious behavior involved. He belongs on the PL, not the HOS. (thumbs u

 

I missed the first poll.

[Bosco685]

I would suggest putting why he should be removed from the list. It would help voters not make the same mistake twice

 

Good move!

 

Also a question for the group, even though the current tally is private, can we as individuals voice how we voted and why?

 

I like this.

 

I voted to take him off the HOS because this sounds like a situation where Menace assumed board members would contact him by other means without making that clear to his customers. So where they may have been sending a PM and getting frustrated why he wasn't responding, he was assuming there was loads of patience while people waited for their items to be fulfilled.

 

So like was pointed out before, poor planning. Not a scam, or other dangerous behavior leading to HOS recommendation.

[slym2none]

Hang 'em high.

 

 

In all seriousness, from what I have read & seen, I agree that he should be removed from the HoS and be placed on the PL.

 

 

 

-slym

[B-Smooth]

Easiest vote I've ever made.

 

Failing to ship $3600 worth of pulps for 7 months and then insisting on another month to ship after being called out on it here. And we know, the buyer knows, and most important Bob knows that he ain't shipping squat.

$3600? Unless he's out of the country, I'd be paying this beerbong character a visit , picking those books up in person at this point.

[jsilverjanet]

I voted for Menace to be taken off the list as my original vote for him not to be on it in the first place was not enough.

 

Based on the information I've read and seen from the rest of HOS group the actions or in this case inaction of Menace is more PL worthy than HOS. Furthermore the initial attempt was to place him on that list and even the original board member who first brought this up here has had his issue resolved.

 

Menace should not a HOS member, that list is for thieves, crooks and in most cases individuals that have have also been banned from this site.

 

 

[DiceX]

I voted for Menace to be taken off the list as my original vote for him not to be on it in the first place was not enough.

 

Based on the information I've read and seen from the rest of HOS group the actions or in this case inaction of Menace is more PL worthy than HOS. Furthermore the initial attempt was to place him on that list and even the original board member who first brought this up here has had his issue resolved.

 

Menace should not a HOS member, that list is for thieves, crooks and in most cases individuals that have have also been banned from this site.

 

 

Ditto (thumbs u

 

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I think the solarcadet inclusion in the HOS also dilutes the value of the HOS.

 

If it was simply a list of giant tools, sure.

 

But his one or two PL worthy incidents should have been handled via PL or exactly as they were, with public outings when the buyer didn't want to push for PL.

 

Just like the public outing when he lied about his father having cancer to generate sympathy for delayed shipment.

 

If we are just going to include everyone who is an , the HOS is going to be unmanageable.

[slym2none]

I think the solarcadet inclusion in the HOS also dilutes the value of the HOS.

 

If it was simply a list of giant tools, sure.

 

But his one or two PL worthy incidents should have been handled via PL or exactly as they were, with public outings when the buyer didn't want to push for PL.

 

Just like the public outing when he lied about his father having cancer to generate sympathy for delayed shipment.

 

If we are just going to include everyone who is an , the HOS is going to be unmanageable.

 

Many would disagree, and rightly so, IMHO.

 

Start a poll to see if he should be removed?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[mikenyc]

I voted to remove Menace from the HOS.

 

The list is meant for outright fraud or blatantly egregious behavior. Clearly the circumstance does not satisfy either.

 

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I am not that interested. I also feel that his flipping the bird to the forum would essentially prevent him from being removed.

 

I didn't vote in his or Menace's poll because I haven't really frequented this sub-forum and felt I must have been missing something when the poll results were so lopsided in favor of HOS.

 

[Bosco685]

I am not that interested. I also feel that his flipping the bird to the forum would essentially prevent him from being removed.

 

I didn't vote in his or Menace's poll because I haven't really frequented this sub-forum and felt I must have been missing something when the poll results were so lopsided in favor of HOS.

 

One additional thing Solarcadet did - or was potentially going to do - was during the Superman "variant" discussion that really bothered some people. I had forgot about this until a gentle PM reminder recently.

 

When he was stating this was a limited DC variant that would be rare to track down, that was one scenario that turned out not to be correct. When he offered to sell some people this book in advance, this was dangerous territory. Especially when it came out it was just a German reprint, which he probably knew about already due to his international comic focus.

 

If anyone had taken him up on this and wanted their money back, would he have refunded their money? Probably after a few people complained. But it was still an odd situation nonetheless.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

eh, I have zero experience in international books, but always felt most collectors considered them a form of variant and if not limited, at least very difficult to track down.

 

I prefer not to convict people for potentially screwing someone in the future and I don't recall evidence where anyone actually claimed he screwed them, other than the attempt to change the terms of his sales thread, which the buyer could have presented to the PL for resolution.

 

 

[Hado]

I am not that interested. I also feel that his flipping the bird to the forum would essentially prevent him from being removed.

 

I didn't vote in his or Menace's poll because I haven't really frequented this sub-forum and felt I must have been missing something when the poll results were so lopsided in favor of HOS.

 

One additional thing Solarcadet did - or was potentially going to do - was during the Superman "variant" discussion that really bothered some people. I had forgot about this until a gentle PM reminder recently.

 

When he was stating this was a limited DC variant that would be rare to track down, that was one scenario that turned out not to be correct. When he offered to sell some people this book in advance, this was dangerous territory. Especially when it came out it was just a German reprint, which he probably knew about already due to his international comic focus.

 

If anyone had taken him up on this and wanted their money back, would he have refunded their money? Probably after a few people complained. But it was still an odd situation nonetheless.

Guilty until proven innocent :shrug: