PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[N/A]

If put on the PL, he will be off of it when he makes everyone right.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

 

So the other boardies that dropped out of the Medina opp because Menace never paid Tony Daniel for his sketch opp. And when Mighty John nominated him less than a year ago.

 

My question is:

 

How many things do you have to do wrong to make it on the HOS?

 

As long as he continues to make things right no matter how many offenses he will never be on a list permanently?

 

What would you like to do? The discussion here as well as any future incidents is well documented. I would assume his opps will be scrutinized.

 

Its not up to me. I am asking the people who continue to stick up for these people and their removal to say how this benefits the community in the long run. The lists have worked but are flawed. That is why I stated I have my own list. If people were on a list, then I will not deal with them. You play with fire, you are bound to get burned. I have seen repeat offenders. But on the flip side, I have seen people shape up and never get back on the list. But how many chances do people get?

 

The problem with ANOTHER list there will be a chance to get voted back off. So I am not in favor of another list.

 

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

If the offending party makes it right then what else would you like the community to do? There is a lengthy discussion here that will hurt their future endeavors. How does banning them permanently help? I have yet to see anyone stick up for someone else. I have seen many people interpret the rules of the forum.

[N/A]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

 

This is exactly right.

 

I get that. The main focus for only positive kudos threads is based on this.

 

But people blame it on the noobs. That is not the case here. Many people were affected by his actions. People in his numerous opps, plus people in his sales threads that he never had enough books for etc. Not just noobs. People in the same situations that I was in are scared to come forward. I waited 5 months to come forward and people still harp on me for that. I can see how people can vote in favor of him but never state their opinions.

 

People use excuses for his use of emails instead of pms. I sent it to both. His response to my email was that it was in his "spam" and that he was sorry.

 

I hope people will look at these conversations and learn from them.

 

There are risks from opps. That is why I no longer take part in them. I used to do 20-30 a year.

 

And that is your choice. I choose not to submit to most opps because the artists seem to suck when it comes to these vs the examples in the sales pitch. That is also not always the case but my choice not to be a part of it.

 

It is not ok to make that choice for others. (thumbs u

 

If people are scared to voice their concern for a transaction gone bad on a message board then I do not believe they had much of an issue

[seanfingh]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

 

This is exactly right.

 

I get that. The main focus for only positive kudos threads is based on this.

 

But people blame it on the noobs. That is not the case here. Many people were affected by his actions. People in his numerous opps, plus people in his sales threads that he never had enough books for etc. Not just noobs. People in the same situations that I was in are scared to come forward. I waited 5 months to come forward and people still harp on me for that. I can see how people can vote in favor of him but never state their opinions.

 

People use excuses for his use of emails instead of pms. I sent it to both. His response to my email was that it was in his "spam" and that he was sorry.

 

I hope people will look at these conversations and learn from them.

 

There are risks from opps. That is why I no longer take part in them. I used to do 20-30 a year.

 

These are all well stated points. The dialogue about the poor service will be part of the thread in perpetuity, and that will help anyone that might be on the fence about using his services.

[J DUB]

Ok, so what I am gathering is rule 5 b) needs to be rewritten.

 

b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender.

 

I, like many others, have misinterpreted this rule. I am sorry for that.

 

Menace did make right on everything with me with the refund and the opp. Medina messaged me himself and said he received the paperwork and the books have been shipped to CGC.

 

He has made right on all the other transactions to my knowledge as well. So he should not be on the HOS.

 

I have yet to get the book from CGC but I trust Medina and his update with me.

 

Again sorry for the misinterpreted rule. Maybe there needs to be some clarity or this just needs to be removed. (Just the bold part)

[dopy02]

 

The problem with ANOTHER list there will be a chance to get voted back off. So I am not in favor of another list.

.

 

see my proposal from 3 weeks ago >>

 

I propose a third category, The Tool Shed.

Once a member is removed from the PL, they go directly to the Tool Shed for life where they will not suffer buying or selling encumbrances but will be identified as a tool.

[Speedy-D]

I am in favor of second chances. But third, fourth etc....I am not.

 

The main goal of this part of the sales area, though, should always be focused on making people whole (offended buyer or seller). If the core focus starts to go down the path of just having a permanent list, no matter how minor the offense, then this is going to validate what people are saying already - the PL/HOS doesn't really serve the purpose it was created for.

 

This is exactly right.

Yep

[universal soldier]

 

The problem with ANOTHER list there will be a chance to get voted back off. So I am not in favor of another list.

.

 

see my proposal from 3 weeks ago >>

 

I propose a third category, The Tool Shed.

Once a member is removed from the PL, they go directly to the Tool Shed for life where they will not suffer buying or selling encumbrances but will be identified as a tool.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this or not yet but at the name. Totally appropriate.

[BEAUMONTS]

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st. I bought 341 pulps from him (His remaining stock, 200ish were late argosy's hence the lower value considering the larger amount of pulps). He was suppose to have them to me within a week. It's been 6 months now. I've called him, pmed him (through ebay or text), emailed him over 50 times at this point. As of two months ago he no longer responds. He is still an active seller on ebay, and still talks to others on the forum, he just dodges me. I started a thread:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7197163&fpart=1

 

In it I discovered, that Bob has been doing this for decades. There are records of at least a dozen other people from these forums telling horror stories of how they had been stolen from by him.

 

I've included a screenshot of my original Paypal payment to prove that I'm legitimate. Additional information can also be found in the thread I posted the link of above.

 

I am unable to get my money back through paypal as it's been more then 90 days (he kept putting me off promising me it was in the mail) and I did NOT use a credit card when I checked out.

 

He's been doing this at least since the 90's. It just seems that no one has been angered to the point (or stolen from as much as I have now been), to post something on these forums reporting his behavior before. He likes to trade using other board members as references as well. Please help me put a stop to this guy. And help me get him to make good on his end one way or another if possible.

 

I've sent him a pm through your servers as your rulebook requires as of today November 25th at noon. I don't expect him to respond.

 

Thanks for your help. - M

 

Does anyone know if Mathew has received the pulps or a refund yet?

[crassus]

Ok, so what I am gathering is rule 5 b) needs to be rewritten.

 

b) The Hall Of Shame is for serious transgressions. For example, selling a book/books and sending nothing of value in the package. Interfering with someone's business. Being a multiple offender.

 

I, like many others, have misinterpreted this rule. I am sorry for that.

 

Menace did make right on everything with me with the refund and the opp. Medina messaged me himself and said he received the paperwork and the books have been shipped to CGC.

 

He has made right on all the other transactions to my knowledge as well. So he should not be on the HOS.

 

I have yet to get the book from CGC but I trust Medina and his update with me.

 

Again sorry for the misinterpreted rule. Maybe there needs to be some clarity or this just needs to be removed. (Just the bold part)

 

It is unclear I think. "Being a multiple offender" can be understood as "being on the PL multiple times". I read it differently because I took it in the context of the examples given for the HoS, "sending nothing of value in the package...interfering with someone's business". So I read "multiple offender" as more especially a pattern of dishonest practices, such as con-men or swindlers might use, to cheat customers.

[sacentaur]

The people who repeatedly draw negative attention to themselves usually elicit little sympathy. If they'd simply conduct their business in a reasonable and ethical manner, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

How about repeated bounced checks? This is becoming more of a issue, even amongst some dealers.

 

[Ryan.]

How about repeated bounced checks? This is becoming more of a issue, even amongst some dealers.

 

[Bosco685]

How about repeated bounced checks? This is becoming more of a issue, even amongst some dealers.

 

I've never caught someone bringing this up before in the probation area. Or have sellers just been pretty silent about the situation by forcing other forms of payment?

[sacentaur]

Silence rules the day as sellers are reluctant to rock the boat because getting their money is more important than exposing the buyer.

 

It takes the sparkle out of a deal when the buyer bounces the check, and you learn that it's a story which is being repeatedly told.

[N/A]

Bounced cheques? What is this, the 90's?

[JWKyle]

Silence rules the day as sellers are reluctant to rock the boat because getting their money is more important than exposing the buyer.

 

It takes the sparkle out of a deal when the buyer bounces the check, and you learn that it's a story which is being repeatedly told.

[Boboset]

Bounced cheques? What is this, the 90's?

I wold assume for larger $ purchases? That's the only time I've ever used a check.

[Bosco685]

Silence rules the day as sellers are reluctant to rock the boat because getting their money is more important than exposing the buyer.

 

It takes the sparkle out of a deal when the buyer bounces the check, and you learn that it's a story which is being repeatedly told.

 

Ouch!

 

But I get it if you want repeat business when larger transactions are involved.

[Speedy-D]

I'm not a fan of the polls where you can't see the results until the end of the poll.

[comix4fun]

I'm not a fan of the polls where you can't see the results until the end of the poll.

 

I used to have the same thought.

 

However, the power of the group and of prevailing opinion can influence voting.

 

Everyone wants to be on the "winning" side and so forth.

 

Blind polls are far more accurate a measure of true opinion.

[Speedy-D]

I'm not a fan of the polls where you can't see the results until the end of the poll.

 

I used to have the same thought.

 

However, the power of the group and of prevailing opinion can influence voting.

 

Everyone wants to be on the "winning" side and so forth.

 

Blind polls are far more accurate a measure of true opinion.

Even if that's true, and I'm not so sure it is, you can't see the results of the poll until you vote, so where's the influence? Are we worried about people discussing the results, and having that influence folks? I don't see how that's much different from people talking about how they voted individually.

 

I also think we're giving all of this way too much thought. For the most part everything works fine.