PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Jeffro.]

Better?

Yes.

 

 

[slym2none]

I'm going to ask a stupid question (yes, I know everything that comes out of my mouth is stupid and therefore I don't need the qualifier) but at any point before the notes, did Bob mention anything about the stain? We know it was brought up in the thread by Finecollector but I hadn't seen anything in the PMs shown that the stain or possible stain was of any concern to Bob BEFORE he got the notes.

 

Not that it matters in most peoples eyes, but the "stain" was NEVER brought up during any of our PM's Surprisingly hardly any questions were asked.

 

This is the problem I have with letting Bob off the hook (unless Dan wants to let him off) Bob is a sophisticated buyer, he knows what he is doing. I would suggest that he has probably made more then 2 5 figure book deals. He had access to several pictures showing the book raw (including interior pictures) and Finecollector asked about the stain.

 

Now I focused on corporate and contracts law in Law School (Burn the Lawyer!) and restatement 209 is just screaming in the back of my head. For those of you that don't know it it deals with the statement of terms and what is/is not included in the deal. We assume that this is a final agreement on the terms because there is no mention of the stain by the buyer and no return policy question. So neither of those issues are applicable. The deal was 2 books (one of which is an FF1 the other known only to Buyer and Seller) and Cash (an unknown amount but known to B and S) in exchange for a CGC graded 8.0 JIM 83. That's it. I think talk of the stain and return policies has to end because there is no evidence that either existed in this case. Just my

Jaybuck, I always value your input because you seem to be a level-headed guy who takes into account the evidence and arguments from both sides (you're a lawyer! ).

 

But in this instance, what if Bob relied on Dan's representations between the PGM thread and the sales thread that there were NO stains on the book and that caused him not to ask any further questions re: a possible stain? Would that change your opinion at all?

 

Can everyone agree that all other things being equal, a book WITH a stain is worth less, price wise or personal appeal wise, than one without a stain?

 

I disagree with that. GPA doesn't break down 8.0 with stain, 8.0 with marvel chipping. Any we as the comic community have made GPA the site we all rely on for values

GPA is just recorded sales... not a price guide?

 

Are you saying people would NOT pay more for a book without a stain than for one with a stain?

 

It is also known that people will pay a premium for similar graded books with superior page quality. I think that is relevant here.

 

 

 

-slym

[Bomber-Bob]

Dan and I have reached a deal. I am purchasing the book in a new arrangement that is agreeable to us both.

I would like to publicly apologize to Dan. His integrity as a dealer should not be put into question. His willingness to work with me on this new deal demonstrates he is also a stand up guy.

Personally, I have learned a lot from this ordeal. I will be more careful with future large transaction purchases. I hope my favorite sellers will continue to sell to me. My checks don't bounce !

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I appreciate the fact that nothing got too personal. Also, Iawyers are now my favorite Boardies ().

Thanks everyone. Love these boards.

---Bob

[comix4fun]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

[Bio-Rupp]

I'm going to ask a stupid question (yes, I know everything that comes out of my mouth is stupid and therefore I don't need the qualifier) but at any point before the notes, did Bob mention anything about the stain? We know it was brought up in the thread by Finecollector but I hadn't seen anything in the PMs shown that the stain or possible stain was of any concern to Bob BEFORE he got the notes.

 

Not that it matters in most peoples eyes, but the "stain" was NEVER brought up during any of our PM's Surprisingly hardly any questions were asked.

 

As much as I don't want to use a car comparison - I think it's accurate. If I see a valuable car I want to purchase online, with plenty of photos and lengthy description - I will order a vehicle history report. Regardless of how detailed the seller's description is, problems that are disclosed from the history report of things I can't see (like major body/frame repairs, lack of maintenance, etc) - could affect the value or resale after I purchase it.

 

Grader's notes seemed to have illuminated some problems SD may not have known about. But they are there, and the staining plays a part in the grade and would likely deter the resale value down the road. I don't believe anyone is being dishonest in this situation at all.

 

I don't disagree with Bob's position - just as I would not intend to follow through on a sale of a car that looked great, ran great and was extensively described - only to find out from a third party there were severe problems that would affect it's value in comparison to other vehicles in the same condition.

 

I agree with what you said up till the end. You have already seen the photos, and the description call up the seller and say I will take it sending money tomorrow and provide all of your details. During a restless sleep you think I should check the car history, at this point you discover something that the REPUTABLE Car dealership missed or was unaware of and now want out.

 

It does not change the fact that there is still something wrong with the item that was not previously disclosed. Even if SD didn't know about it - Bob is meant to take a $16k hit because he checked grader's notes one day too late and discovered that the book has a major flaw in it? I can't agree with that.

 

Regardless of a buyer's experience, it's still up to the seller to be the expert in the transaction. The seller should have all the answers. The seller should be the most educated about the product he is selling. That's my personal philosophy. That's why I believe that Bob is in the right with his decision.

 

You know the one thing I woke up questioning myself about... other than why 3 dogs were piled on top of me asleep... was this...

 

What would Dan's book had graded at WITHOUT this stain? 8.5? 9.0?

 

[jsilverjanet]

And that's why this is a great system (when you take out the noise). Both parties came to an agreement, no one was put on the PL. Congrats to both buyer and seller!

[N/A]

..I believe Dan when he says he didn't see the stain.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying he lied about it. The bugaboo is that after the fact, it was confirmed as a stain.

 

The Utopian Marketplace where all books are sold with notes hasn't been established yet.

 

I just think that we're going a bit far in absolving the buyer of responsibility when it comes to agreeing to a deal.

 

I have read all of comix4fun's posts, he makes great points but we're going too far when releasing the buyer from acting responsibly to protect himself as it relates to a defect discussed twice. If the seller answers to the best of his ability that should mean something positive, it shouldn't be something that makes every sale that occurs in the marketplace subject to buyers backing out "because...."

 

 

I wouldn't have had to make this point again if you'd responded without editing me.

 

Hopefully both of these good guys can work it out.

 

 

Seriously? The seller should be offering returns anyway and if the buyer got the book he could return it under PayPal rules for item not described. I would like my buyers to tell me as soon as they do not wish to proceed. In this case it's a no brainer. The book was misrepresented. End of story.

[Bio-Rupp]

Dan and I have reached a deal. I am purchasing the book in a new arrangement that is agreeable to us both.

I would like to publicly apologize to Dan. His integrity as a dealer should not be put into question. His willingness to work with me on this new deal demonstrates he is also a stand up guy.

Personally, I have learned a lot from this ordeal. I will be more careful with future large transaction purchases. I hope my favorite sellers will continue to sell to me. My checks don't bounce !

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I appreciate the fact that nothing got too personal. Also, Iawyers are now my favorite Boardies ().

Thanks everyone. Love these boards.

---Bob

 

[slym2none]

Dan and I have reached a deal. I am purchasing the book in a new arrangement that is agreeable to us both.

I would like to publicly apologize to Dan. His integrity as a dealer should not be put into question. His willingness to work with me on this new deal demonstrates he is also a stand up guy.

Personally, I have learned a lot from this ordeal. I will be more careful with future large transaction purchases. I hope my favorite sellers will continue to sell to me. My checks don't bounce !

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I appreciate the fact that nothing got too personal. Also, Iawyers are now my favorite Boardies ().

Thanks everyone. Love these boards.

---Bob

 

 

 

 

-slym

[N/A]

Dan and I have reached a deal. I am purchasing the book in a new arrangement that is agreeable to us both.

I would like to publicly apologize to Dan. His integrity as a dealer should not be put into question. His willingness to work with me on this new deal demonstrates he is also a stand up guy.

Personally, I have learned a lot from this ordeal. I will be more careful with future large transaction purchases. I hope my favorite sellers will continue to sell to me. My checks don't bounce !

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I appreciate the fact that nothing got too personal. Also, Iawyers are now my favorite Boardies ().

Thanks everyone. Love these boards.

---Bob

 

[Logan510]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

 

Are you going to claim a fee?

[MrBedrock]

Best possible outcome. Everybody wins!

[jaybuck43]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

^ This x1,000

[Hado]

Congrats to Both.

[Bomber-Bob]

Best possible outcome. Everybody wins!

 

Even CGC, they got their 15 bucks for the notes !!! ().

[comix4fun]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

 

Are you going to claim a fee?

 

 

I was hoping I'd be able to get a slightly stained JIM 83 at a discount.

[comix4fun]

Best possible outcome. Everybody wins!

 

 

Coke!!

[Logan510]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

 

Are you going to claim a fee?

 

 

I was hoping I'd be able to get a slightly stained JIM 83 at a discount.

 

Clever sir...very clever

[comix4fun]

Glad it worked out to your mutual satisfaction. The best possible outcome.

 

Are you going to claim a fee?

 

 

I was hoping I'd be able to get a slightly stained JIM 83 at a discount.

 

Clever sir...very clever

 

 

Cool Books!!

[HarveySwick]

Dan and I have reached a deal. I am purchasing the book in a new arrangement that is agreeable to us both.

I would like to publicly apologize to Dan. His integrity as a dealer should not be put into question. His willingness to work with me on this new deal demonstrates he is also a stand up guy.

Personally, I have learned a lot from this ordeal. I will be more careful with future large transaction purchases. I hope my favorite sellers will continue to sell to me. My checks don't bounce !

Thanks for all the insightful discussion. I appreciate the fact that nothing got too personal. Also, Iawyers are now my favorite Boardies ().

Thanks everyone. Love these boards.

---Bob

Great news guys! (thumbs u