PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jaybuck43]

somewhereintexas posted this for sale a few months ago. I had been tempted to pull the trigger on it but have a few Sandman 1's and had just spent a lot on gifts for family and friends for Jew Christmas

[oakman29]

I don't care

Quite funny really,just don't biotch when you ever get screwed over by someone.

[Detached]

I don't care

Quite funny really,just don't biotch when you ever get screwed over by someone.

 

I purchased a few slabs during his current sales thread and I received tracking # yesterday. It's scheduled to be here in a few days so we'll see...

 

If my order shows in the condition stated, all is fine.

 

The other allegations as a buyer are another story... my

[Logan510]

I don't care

Quite funny really,just don't biotch when you ever get screwed over by someone.

 

I purchased a few slabs during his current sales thread and I received tracking # yesterday. It's scheduled to be here in a few days so we'll see...

 

If my order shows in the condition stated, all is fine.

 

The other allegations as a buyer are another story... my

 

 

Well, as long as you get your stuff without a hitch, I guess that means he's a great guy

[Bosco685]

I don't care

Quite funny really,just don't biotch when you ever get screwed over by someone.

 

I purchased a few slabs during his current sales thread and I received tracking # yesterday. It's scheduled to be here in a few days so we'll see...

 

If my order shows in the condition stated, all is fine.

 

The other allegations as a buyer are another story... my

 

That is a concerning stance on the situation.

 

So if he lies as a buyer, he was only doing it from that perspective; as a seller, he's in the clear as the only thing he has done there is admitting to shilling his Ebay sales. So he's good there.

 

I hope every one of you taking that view on things never has a problem either way. Because I have a feeling people will not be so sympathetic to your case.

[Detached]

Perhaps I am missing some key information here but so far I have gathered... his only real offenses involve a history of backing out of purchases with lies and shills on his own auctions and listings. Both of these traits are obviously not desirable and can provide a certain judgement of character...

 

My point is from one of a buyer... I bought some slabs at an agreed price and they shipped quickly. If the books arrive as they should in the stated condition within the next week, than it is a successful purchase.

 

I am certainly not defending him... I guess I am just hoping my recent order arrives in good shape over these recent allegations.

[Bosco685]

Perhaps I am missing some key information here but so far I have gathered... his only real offenses involve a history of backing out of purchases with lies and shills on his own auctions and listings. Both of these traits are obviously not desirably and can provide a certain judgement of character...

 

My point is from one of a buyer... I bought some slabs at an agreed price and they shipped quickly. If the books arrive as they should in the stated condition within the next week, than it is a successful purchase.

 

I am certainly not defending him... I guess I am just hoping my recent order arrives in good shape over these recent allegations.

 

Unfortunately, you are proving out something Logan510 makes reference to on rare occasions. Okay - NOT THAT RARE.

 

As long as someone has great books, all else is ignored. I got mine!

[Detached]

I do apologize but I guess I see the situation differently...

 

Is it the integrity of him as a seller that is being questioned?

 

Or the ability for him to purchase?

[Bosco685]

I do apologize but I guess I see the situation differently...

 

Is it the integrity of him as a seller that is being questioned?

 

Or the ability for him to purchase?

 

If someone tells a major lie to alter the terms of a transaction:

 

1) I'll take your book.

2) Oh, I'm unemployed now - can I back out of the deal as I am tight on cash?

3) By the way, I just purchased an Amazing Fantasy 15 - what do you think?

 

It may not be a stretch they will do the same exact thing as a seller.

 

His being off the HOS-PL is because he figured out what the minimum requirement is to get out of a situation (following up and making a transaction right). But in my case, it only happened because of crazy luck I was chatting with the other seller that just sold him the Amazing Fantasy 15. Otherwise, I would have never been the wiser.

[crassus]

I am not excusing it, but its worth remembering that purchasing with respect to certain ethical or moral standards is not fundamental to the marketplace. All of us at one time or another, consciously or unconsciously, have grabbed at great deals on clothes, electronics or other goods without regard to the ethical record of the industries and corporations behind the product.

 

There are too many examples of this to need listing, but the instinct to grab the great deal is engrained in our social upbringing. I agree we have to set a better example here, but most of this is pure instinct that society normally rewards with "wow, what a great deal, congrats".

 

 

[A.Romeo]

I am not excusing it, but its worth remembering that purchasing with respect to certain ethical or moral standards is not fundamental to the marketplace. All of us at one time or another, consciously or unconsciously, have grabbed at great deals on clothes, electronics or other goods without regard to the ethical record of the industries and corporations behind the product.

 

There are too many examples of this to need listing, but the instinct to grab the great deal is engrained in our social upbringing. I agree we have to set a better example here, but most of this is pure instinct that society normally rewards with "wow, what a great deal, congrats".

 

 

When your buying/selling to a small group of people where you have a chance to get to know someone, you actually ARE held more closely to moral and ethical standards because your under the spotlight more than some big corporation. I don't interact and talk back and forth with the corporate heads of a walmart, or a best buy, but I do interact with people on this board. I expect to be held to a high moral and ethical standard amongst this group and so should everyone else on these boards.

 

"oh i didnt know shilling was bad im a n00b" - Nobody should ever accept that as a pass for a seller on these boards.

 

AGAIN, it still amazes me that there are people out there that will try to make or find an excuse for being passive on the types of behaviors that so blatantly stick out on these boards where someone is trying to screw people over, but yet people want a GREAT deal so bad they will still do business knowing that this person is ETHICALLY AND MORALLY WRONG. If someone gets burned for buying from someone, who they know has been on the PL/HOS I have no sympathy for them, and they actually deserve to get publicly ridiculed themselves.

 

 

 

 

[HarveySwick]

As long as someone has great books, all else is ignored. I got mine!

We're still on this huh?

 

How many of these scumbags in my shirt time here have apologized directly to the people they've wrongdoing, publicly apologized and voluntarily taken several months away?

 

Solarcadet is In the HOS and gets off on having a sales thread. All I'm saying is - the kid pulled some absolutely schmucky moves without tact.

 

(1) I think his biggest transgression is he shilled on his own auctions, right? He admitted it. If he does it again, he has learned nothing and I'll be there with you. But you know that there has to have been people on here that do it and are just not caught.

 

(2) Backing out on buying a NM98 by claiming you have no money, then buying an AF15, getting caught, and then honoring the first deal are signs of a schmuck or id iot. I don't see anything really sinister going on. Just never do business with him again. I'm sure most here won't.

 

(3) Selling a book,, having someone take it and then doubling the price IS concerning. But Kevin forgave him and decided he's not going to do business with him ever again.

 

(4) And his "buy my stuff, I need rent" or "I got mugged, help!" is absolutely I don't get that either and it isn't that rare around here with people selling books.

 

In all of my - I'm just not giving up on hope that someone can learn a lesson. This kid wants to be here. Remember, my only experience here is the last year. I did go through the history of the HOS/PL and saw somewhat similar discussions being talked about years ago so forgive me if similar things have taken place before I got here. But from what I see with Symbiotic and his actions and the reactions to him being called out - I'm just hoping maybe he learned something and can be a valuable member. I've never bought anything or sold anything to him and I don't have much money for cool books these days. I just HOPE everyone could sit back and watch and try to give the kid a chance. Don't sell to him or don't buy from him if you don't like his practices, but don't burn those that do. If they come running back screaming for help - they made that choice, no? He's not on any list yet so constantly talking about it isn't doing anything other than running in circles.

[Speedy-D]

As long as someone has great books, all else is ignored. I got mine!

We're still on this huh?

 

How many of these scumbags in my shirt time here have apologized directly to the people they've wrongdoing, publicly apologized and voluntarily taken several months away?

 

Solarcadet is In the HOS and gets off on having a sales thread. All I'm saying is - the kid pulled some absolutely schmucky moves without tact.

 

(1) I think his biggest transgression is he shilled on his own auctions, right? He admitted it. If he does it again, he has learned nothing and I'll be there with you. But you know that there has to have been people on here that do it and are just not caught.

 

(2) Backing out on buying a NM98 by claiming you have no money, then buying an AF15, getting caught, and then honoring the first deal are signs of a schmuck or id iot. I don't see anything really sinister going on. Just never do business with him again. I'm sure most here won't.

 

(3) Selling a book,, having someone take it and then doubling the price IS concerning. But Kevin forgave him and decided he's not going to do business with him ever again.

 

(4) And his "buy my stuff, I need rent" or "I got mugged, help!" is absolutely I don't get that either and it isn't that rare around here with people selling books.

 

In all of my - I'm just not giving up on hope that someone can learn a lesson. This kid wants to be here. Remember, my only experience here is the last year. I did go through the history of the HOS/PL and saw somewhat similar discussions being talked about years ago so forgive me if similar things have taken place before I got here. But from what I see with Symbiotic and his actions and the reactions to him being called out - I'm just hoping maybe he learned something and can be a valuable member. I've never bought anything or sold anything to him and I don't have much money for cool books these days. I just HOPE everyone could sit back and watch and try to give the kid a chance. Don't sell to him or don't buy from him if you don't like his practices, but don't burn those that do. If they come running back screaming for help - they made that choice, no? He's not on any list yet so constantly talking about it isn't doing anything other than running in circles.

First off, the bolded part is not as special as you seem to think it is. It's happened before.

 

Second, you're not going to argue anyone into trusting this guy and giving him a second chance (fifth actually at this point?). If he behaves well for however long it takes to build up trust, completes transactions honorably (not a very tall order really), etc. etc. etc., he will eventually be forgiven by most. For now, people don't trust him, and they're letting it be known.

 

As many have pointed out, and keep pointing out ad infinitum, the PL & HoS are not the be-all end-all lists of who is sketchy. The PL is designed to get specific transactions completed. The HoS is for Boardies who have transgressed so greatly that we'd ban them if we could, or call the cops on them. There's a lot of room for people to be sketchy without being on either list. So saying the symbiotic isn't on a list doesn't mean he's spotless, it just means he doesn't fit the narrow criteria.

 

As for running in circles...physician, heal thyself!!

[seanfingh]

As long as someone has great books, all else is ignored. I got mine!

We're still on this huh?

 

How many of these scumbags in my shirt time here have apologized directly to the people they've wrongdoing, publicly apologized and voluntarily taken several months away?

 

Solarcadet is In the HOS and gets off on having a sales thread. All I'm saying is - the kid pulled some absolutely schmucky moves without tact.

 

(1) I think his biggest transgression is he shilled on his own auctions, right? He admitted it. If he does it again, he has learned nothing and I'll be there with you. But you know that there has to have been people on here that do it and are just not caught.

 

(2) Backing out on buying a NM98 by claiming you have no money, then buying an AF15, getting caught, and then honoring the first deal are signs of a schmuck or id iot. I don't see anything really sinister going on. Just never do business with him again. I'm sure most here won't.

 

(3) Selling a book,, having someone take it and then doubling the price IS concerning. But Kevin forgave him and decided he's not going to do business with him ever again.

 

(4) And his "buy my stuff, I need rent" or "I got mugged, help!" is absolutely I don't get that either and it isn't that rare around here with people selling books.

 

In all of my - I'm just not giving up on hope that someone can learn a lesson. This kid wants to be here. Remember, my only experience here is the last year. I did go through the history of the HOS/PL and saw somewhat similar discussions being talked about years ago so forgive me if similar things have taken place before I got here. But from what I see with Symbiotic and his actions and the reactions to him being called out - I'm just hoping maybe he learned something and can be a valuable member. I've never bought anything or sold anything to him and I don't have much money for cool books these days. I just HOPE everyone could sit back and watch and try to give the kid a chance. Don't sell to him or don't buy from him if you don't like his practices, but don't burn those that do. If they come running back screaming for help - they made that choice, no? He's not on any list yet so constantly talking about it isn't doing anything other than running in circles.

 

No.

[Speedy-D]

Also, look at that list of shadiness you've come up with Harv...in his defense!!

[HarveySwick]

I'm not defending what he did. If it seems like I am, maybe I wasn't clear what I was trying to say.

 

It's just that we did this whole discussion for several weeks back in October. Are we going to have it every time he has a sales thread? It's starting to feel that I'm reading dialog from Statler and Waldorf from the Muppet Show.

 

It was discussed for several weeks, rehashed last week, brought up again this week. I don't know where it's going or when the discussion shifts elsewhere I guess because someone inevitably logs in, catches up and it starts up again. I read this thread because I feel like it's important info. But everything that needed to be said about Symbiotic has been said numerous times. I feel like the next step is getting Morgan Freeman to do a recap.

[Speedy-D]

Then stop replying.

[HarveySwick]

Fair enough.

[Bosco685]

I'm not defending what he did. If it seems like I am, maybe I wasn't clear what I was trying to say.

 

It's just that we did this whole discussion for several weeks back in October. Are we going to have it every time he has a sales thread? It's starting to feel that I'm reading dialog from the old men in the Muppet Show.

 

It was discussed for several weeks, rehashed last week, brought up again this week. I don't know where it's going or when the discussion shifts elsewhere I guess because someone inevitably logs in, catches up and it starts up again. I read this thread because I feel like it's important info. But everything that needed to be said about Symbiotic has been said numerous times. I feel like the next step is getting Morgan Freeman to do a recap.

 

Or you making crazy defense statements for him.

 

 

But you are right. He figured out the PL. And there are too many sales too many good people to not do the right thing on his part.

 

[HarveySwick]

I am just not giving up hope that he learned something from all of his screw ups. There have to have been some members through the years who screwed up and then learned from there mistakes and became good, contributing members to the community.