PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[seanfingh]

To everyone trying to logic the HOS, don't bother, the last several have been pure lynch mob mentality - red rocks, symbiotic, solarcadet, HusTruck. They are all huge d-bags, but not what has historically been HOS. There is a movement to make the HOS something it hasn't historically been. That movement is winning. Institutions change over time. Trying to make everything fit into the same box will not work. This seems to be the dynamic that is causing a lot of consternation.

[cloud cloddie]

 

 

I certainly did not ask nor did I expect the poll to be deleted, I merely voiced my opinion after I thought a decision had ALREADY BEEN MADE...and

 

after Metal PSI said something about Hustruck having 15 shills.

 

I think the board voiced an opinion. My only problem was/is that I think we need to take more time before posting these polls/votes in the future. To me at least, the board made a decision. He should be added, if someone wants him off the list, there needs to be another poll.

 

 

This. The board did make a decision, and he should be added to the HOS.

If changes need to be made to the process or to the HOS/PL in general, great. But that's a separate issue.

[Hado]

I apologize for the rest of the illuminati

 

We don't mean to rule your lives, but we do.

 

No you don't

That was a joke son.

 

Wasn't funny

:shrug: Ok

 

Please don't call me son or boy either.

You got it. Anything else?

[jsilverjanet]

[Park]

To everyone trying to logic the HOS, don't bother, the last several have been pure lynch mob mentality - red rocks, symbiotic, solarcadet, HusTruck. They are all huge d-bags, but not what has historically been HOS. There is a movement to make the HOS something it hasn't historically been. That movement is winning. Institutions change over time. Trying to make everything fit into the same box will not work. This seems to be the dynamic that is causing a lot of consternation.

 

Summed up nicely.

 

 

 

 

[hhwolfman]

 

 

In my previous post. I stated I was not a lawyer. That I had been involved in litigation for the last 2 years. Logic is in the eye of the beholder . " How do you know with such assurance what their logic is if they never voiced it?" Because they just voiced it in that poll. Good grief.

 

I give up All the 130 that voted him in to HOS and me. All have different Logic as to why they voted him in. The other 18 that voted no were right and had the same logic. The most absurd debate, I have ever been in. You win. Happy.

 

I think you have just defined the opposite of logic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Logical reasoning does not assign value to context.

(thumbs u

[Number 6]

These things need to be done slowly, so that emotions don't make the decisions for us.

 

This is not the first time in this discussion that those who voted in the affirmative on the poll have been referred to as possibly acting out of emotion more so than reason.

 

I agree and share the concern about a rush to judgement based more on emotion than on facts.

 

However, when I read comments from vetern members refering to a nomination to the HOS as an 'accusation of murder', an induction into the HOS as 'a death sentence', and both the candidates and members of the HOS as 'the worst of the worst' - in my opinion that is equally emotionalizing the process.

 

I understand that that 'accusation of murder' is illustrative hyperbole. Still, the issues we're discussing here are no where near that serious so there's really no need to go there.

 

The HOS is not 'a death sentence'. It doesn't stop a member from posting on the boards. And as long as there's cooperative buyers and sellers, it doesn't even stop a member from posting in the Marketplace. Solarcadet1 proved that. Some may imagine that the HOS is the worst that can happen to a member but it really isn't. If anything is comparable to 'a death sentence' it would be banning and none of us have a say in that.

 

Nowhere in the guidelines for the HOS does it mention 'the worst of the worst'. It simply mentions serious transgressions as well as a degree of recidivism.

 

Again, I understand the concern over rushed, well-meaning but slightly over-zealous nominations diluting the significance of the HOS. However, I think the interjecting of these extreme negative qualifiers doesn't really help the process either.

[hhwolfman]

When using "That's a Joke Son". This should be used so members will know it is another joke that passed them by.

Edited January 11, 2015 by HHwolfman

[CAHokie]

I understand why some are voting no and respect their rational, especially since they were here when the rules were formed. Branget kind of answered this, but the vocal minority seem to keep clicking right past it. My major concern though, is that again, if he is only on the PL, then it is solely up to one boardie to keep him there. A boardie that may not have the boards best interests at heart. At any time a back door deal of an offer of Kool Books in exchange for taking him off the list can happen and then he is once again an upstanding citizen in the boards eyes.

 

The boards can't overrule the nominating party from removing him from the PL right?

[Hado]

When using "That's a Joke Son". This should be used so members will know it is another joke that passed them by.

That was what I was going for, too bad text doesn't always convey what we mean.

[HighStakesComics]

Does anyone have the final tally before the poll went poof? Wasn't the ratio of yes/no votes close to 7:1?

[seanfingh]

These things need to be done slowly, so that emotions don't make the decisions for us.

 

This is not the first time in this discussion that those who voted in the affirmative on the poll have been referred to as possibly acting out of emotion more so than reason.

 

I agree and share the concern about a rush to judgement based more on emotion than on facts.

 

However, when I read comments from vetern members refering to a nomination to the HOS as an 'accusation of murder', an induction into the HOS as 'a death sentence', and both the candidates and members of the HOS as 'the worst of the worst' - in my opinion that is equally emotionalizing the process.

 

I understand that that 'accusation of murder' is illustrative hyperbole. Still, the issues we're discussing here are no where near that serious so there's really no need to go there.

 

The HOS is not 'a death sentence'. It doesn't stop a member from posting on the boards. And as long as there's cooperative buyers and sellers, it doesn't even stop a member from posting in the Marketplace. Solarcadet1 proved that. Some may imagine that the HOS is the worst that can happen to a member but it really isn't. If anything is comparable to 'a death sentence' it would be banning and none of us have a say in that.

 

Nowhere in the guidelines for the HOS does it mention 'the worst of the worst'. It simply mentions serious transgressions as well as a degree of recidivism.

 

Again, I understand the concern over rushed, well-meaning but slightly over-zealous nominations diluting the significance of the HOS. However, I think the interjecting of these extreme negative qualifiers doesn't really help the process either.

 

It used to be a buying and selling death sentence. There were no more transactions until they created shills and tried to come back. solarcadet is the perfect example. He was put in the HoS for being a raging a-hole. Since he never screwed anyone in a classic HoS manner, he was still beloved by his crew of variant sourcers. The HoS is changing, loosening up, becoming something it wasn't before. That is fine, and that is how things work over time. Please don't try to retrofit something i said - "a buying and selling death sentence" - into something that wasn't intended or implied. I don't appreciate it.

[Hado]

I understand why some are voting no and respect their rational, especially since they were here when the rules were formed. Branget kind of answered this, but the vocal minority seem to keep clicking right past it. My major concern though, is that again, if he is only on the PL, then it is solely up to one boardie to keep him there. A boardie that may not have the boards best interests at heart. At any time a back door deal of an offer of Kool Books in exchange for taking him off the list can happen and then he is once again an upstanding citizen in the boards eyes.

 

The boards can't overrule the nominating party from removing him from the PL right?

If the nominator came here and asked for someone to be removed, they usually spell out how the transgression has been resolved.

 

 

[skypinkblu]

To everyone trying to logic the HOS, don't bother, the last several have been pure lynch mob mentality - red rocks, symbiotic, solarcadet, HusTruck. They are all huge d-bags, but not what has historically been HOS. There is a movement to make the HOS something it hasn't historically been. That movement is winning. Institutions change over time. Trying to make everything fit into the same box will not work. This seems to be the dynamic that is causing a lot of consternation.

 

 

I wish I could write as well as you and Pov, his assessment of the issues presented, mirrored mine.

 

Since so many people can't just read the rules and agree what they mean, It's OBVIOUS we need to update the rules.

 

I was very glad to see Ed starting to think about changes.

 

Hector, I didn't answer you because it would take me more time than I have right now and I don't think I was so involved with the RedRocks thing so I don't have an answer there.

[hhwolfman]

Well IMO anyone that continues to deal with Hus gets what they deserve. Noobs on the other hand, will hopefully do some research or fellow board members guide them out of it, before they fall prey. This then falls into noobs believing that member wants the book for themselves. It is a tangled web. The good thing for me, Is can see the writing on the wall and wouldn't by a Sup #1 from him for a dollar. I am done. Peace. HH out.

[jsilverjanet]

To everyone trying to logic the HOS, don't bother, the last several have been pure lynch mob mentality - red rocks, symbiotic, solarcadet, HusTruck. They are all huge d-bags, but not what has historically been HOS. There is a movement to make the HOS something it hasn't historically been. That movement is winning. Institutions change over time. Trying to make everything fit into the same box will not work. This seems to be the dynamic that is causing a lot of consternation.

 

 

I wish I could write as well as you and Pov, his assessment of the issues presented, mirrored mine.

 

Since there so many people can't just read the rules and agree what they mean, It's OBVIOUS we need to update the rules.

 

I was very glad to see Ed starting to think about changes.

 

Hector, I didn't answer you because it would take me more time than I have right now and I don't think I was so involved with the RedRocks thing so I don't have an answer there.

 

No worries. Just PM me later, I think Sean did a good job of explaining it and I agree with his assessment

[hhwolfman]

When using "That's a Joke Son". This should be used so members will know it is another joke that passed them by.

That was what I was going for, too bad text doesn't always convey what we mean.

 

I posted this for the younguns. So in the future they might not get their panties in bunch. They might not have had the pleasure of the great Foghorn Leghorn. I use it all the time.

[crassus]

I understand why some are voting no and respect their rational, especially since they were here when the rules were formed. Branget kind of answered this, but the vocal minority seem to keep clicking right past it. My major concern though, is that again, if he is only on the PL, then it is solely up to one boardie to keep him there. A boardie that may not have the boards best interests at heart. At any time a back door deal of an offer of Kool Books in exchange for taking him off the list can happen and then he is once again an upstanding citizen in the boards eyes.

 

The boards can't overrule the nominating party from removing him from the PL right?

If the nominator came here and asked for someone to be removed, they usually spell out how the transgression has been resolved.

 

 

As I understand it, it is entirely at the discretion of the nominating party when and how they are satisfied to release the accused from the PL.

 

I have struggled a bit to keep pace with the posting, but it is a valid concern that his stay on the PL is at the sole discretion of one member, which is how it should be for the PL, and why I do not consider having a vote on Hustruck for HoS to be wrong in principle.

 

Speaking for myself, my sole concern was the due diligence of presenting the evidence to ensure informed decisions.

[A.Romeo]

I know what will fix everything.

 

If a seller is someone who has had a "history" and is still making sales threads, allow members to post about the seller in their sales thread letting everyone know this is a seller to be wary of.

 

PL can remain as a first offender list. (you get one pass)

 

Once you have been on the PL, its fair game, if you want to continue to sell, then everyone knows you have been on the PL once or several times.

 

Enough of this "lets hope the new people can read lists" deal and lets be a community and pull together to get rid of the scum on the boards that continually try to pollute it. I get there is no "threadcrapping" however, this shouldn't be a rule when it comes to someone who has a bad rap and continue to take advantage of those that don't know better.

 

This is the only real way to put an end to this

 

In a nutshell - Allow the board to out members in their own sales threads to give warning that this person is a problem.

Edited January 11, 2015 by A.Romeo

[CAHokie]

Thank you for your answers Hado and Crassus. That is what I thought. So essentially the nominator can show up, say Hus has contacted him and made things right (could be an apology, cool books, cash) and request his removal from the PL. There is nothing any of us can do about it other than wait until he screws someone else over and put him back on the list again.