PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[EC ed]

...it is a valid concern that his stay on the PL is at the sole discretion of one member, which is how it should be for the PL, and why I do not consider having a vote on Hustruck for HoS to be wrong in principle.

Let me push on this ^, in the context of the following idea (posted earlier):

 

Hall of Shame: You are added to the HoS by operation of rule when you are placed on the Probation List a third time. There is no community vote to put you on the HoS. Once you have your third PL appearance, you are on the HoS, period. After a mandatory 6-month waiting period, you may petition for removal from the HoS, which will be put to a community vote, majority rules. That's what HoS means, period.

 

Hypothetically, if his "prosecutable" board-related transgressions are limited to the issue that got him on the PL, and he resolves that in such a manner that the nominator removes him, why is something further warranted? If there are more board-related transgressions that are PL worthy, those people should separately nominate him to the PL. If he hits 3, then he automatically goes on the HoS and the community needs to remove him, by vote. No subjectivity involved.

[oakman29]

I apologize for the rest of the illuminati

 

We don't mean to rule your lives, but we do.

 

No you don't

That was a joke son.

 

Wasn't funny

:shrug: Ok

 

Please don't call me son or boy either.

 

Okay sonny boy, relax.

[CAHokie]

Grandpa Oak! Are you going to any upcoming So Cal conventions?

[seanfingh]

I know what will fix everything.

 

If a seller is someone who has had a "history" and is still making sales threads, allow members to post about the seller in their sales thread letting everyone know this is a seller to be wary of.

 

PL can remain as a first offender list. (you get one pass)

 

Once you have been on the PL, its fair game, if you want to continue to sell, then everyone knows you have been on the PL once or several times.

 

Enough of this "lets hope the new people can read lists" deal and lets be a community and pull together to get rid of the scum on the boards that continually try to pollute it. I get there is no "threadcrapping" however, this shouldn't be a rule when it comes to someone who has a bad rap and continue to take advantage of those that don't know better.

 

This is the only real way to put an end to this

 

In a nutshell - Allow the board to out members in their own sales threads to give warning that this person is a problem.

 

This would be awesome for entertainment and LTPC points, but it will never happen.

[oakman29]

Grandpa Oak! Are you going to any upcoming So Cal conventions?

 

Hell yes first on the list is Terry's show in Yorba Linda.

Too bad people get all bunched up over comics. The reality is just don't buy from him,give a heads up to a board member who is new in PM who might consider buying any books from him.Once he realizes after time he can't sell to anyone,he'll go away.moving his little carnival act with him.

 

 

Easy! (thumbs u

[Jimmy Linguini]

Grandpa Oak! Are you going to any upcoming So Cal conventions?

 

If you're going to give him nick names please reference Pokemon

[bababooey]

Thank you for your answers Hado and Crassus. That is what I thought. So essentially the nominator can show up, say Hus has contacted him and made things right (could be an apology, cool books, cash) and request his removal from the PL. There is nothing any of us can do about it other than wait until he screws someone else over and put him back on the list again.

When others chimed in during your Adonis nomination/addition to PL we worked it out so that anyone who had spoken up was taken care of before you removed him.

That worked out ok but there were some who wanted HOS then, right?

 

 

[CAHokie]

That is correct Baba. When I think of Adonis, he is the type I think of when I think of the PL. He is not a scammer, but someone that has a less than stellar business model but will make sure (eventually) that you get what is owed. After being put on the PL, it appears that he has made a point (to the best of my knowledge) to make sure actually shipping the stuff is a priority. If so, so then the PL worked as designed.

 

I was against HOS on him. If he continued to do to others what he did to me over and over again, then I would consider that a repeat offender and consider changing my mind.

 

The difference is, in my own mind at least, is that I will make decisions that I feel is best for the boards. I really like this place and want the right thing to always be done. The guy putting up Hus may not feel that same way, and an offer of a cool book may be all it takes to remove him. (Note: I am using nominator in general and not saying this nominator would necessarily do this)

 

 

[hhwolfman]

Grandpa Oak! Are you going to any upcoming So Cal conventions?

 

Hell yes first on the list is Terry's show in Yorba Linda.

Too bad people get all bunched up over comics. The reality is just don't buy from him,give a heads up to a board member who is new in PM who might consider buying any books from him.Once he realizes after time he can't sell to anyone,he'll go away.moving his little carnival act with him.

 

 

Easy! (thumbs u

 

I used to sit up at Terry's show all the time. It is a great show. I just don't have the time to do his show anymore. I had great Buys and great sales there. Hopefully I will make it there again someday.

[EC ed]

When others chimed in during your Adonis nomination/addition to PL we worked it out so that anyone who had spoken up was taken care of before you removed him.

That worked out ok but there were some who wanted HOS then, right?

 

Under the structure below, an individual PL nominator would not need to bear the burden of protecting the rest of the community before removing the person from the PL...that's not intended by the scope of the PL process, anyway. Rather, if there were 2 other aggrieved parties, they could/should have separately nominated Adonis to the PL, and he would have hit his 3 strikes, requiring placement on the HoS and community vote removal. Seems cleaner.

 

Hall of Shame: You are added to the HoS by operation of rule when you are placed on the Probation List a third time. There is no community vote to put you on the HoS. Once you have your third PL appearance, you are on the HoS, period. After a mandatory 6-month waiting period, you may petition for removal from the HoS, which will be put to a community vote, majority rules.

[4comix]

i don't get it? we're all willing to over look his shady actions based on technicalities? that's foolish ... there's countless stories on here about his buisness ethics, he hasn't even attempted to deny any of them because they are all true and he knows it. I posted a post about him on Instagram and about 10 more stories popped out the woodwork with in 10 mins. I'm new to the boards in a sence I don't post much but I run multiple businesses so I'm not new to dealing with people and money. Guys like him no matter what list you make or put him on are cancers and if not cut out immediately will spread, by allowing him to Wiesel out of the HOS on a technicality your encouraging other wiesels to take a shot at shady tactics. as I was once told on the boards "time is a flat circle" if you allow him back your opening pandoras box and history will repeat. just my 2 cents now back to the Cowboys game ?

[seanfingh]

When others chimed in during your Adonis nomination/addition to PL we worked it out so that anyone who had spoken up was taken care of before you removed him.

That worked out ok but there were some who wanted HOS then, right?

 

Under the structure below, an individual PL nominator would not need to bear the burden of protecting the rest of the community before removing the person from the PL...that's not intended by the scope of the PL process, anyway. Rather, if there were 2 other aggrieved parties, they could/should have separately nominated Adonis to the PL, and he would have hit his 3 strikes, requiring placement on the HoS and community vote removal. Seems cleaner.

 

Hall of Shame: You are added to the HoS by operation of rule when you are placed on the Probation List a third time. There is no community vote to put you on the HoS. Once you have your third PL appearance, you are on the HoS, period. After a mandatory 6-month waiting period, you may petition for removal from the HoS, which will be put to a community vote, majority rules.

 

I appreciate all of your efforts, I really do, but making this thing a "mathematical formula" is the wrong way to go.

[Sqeggs]

Hall of Shame: You are added to the HoS by operation of rule when you are placed on the Probation List a third time. There is no community vote to put you on the HoS. Once you have your third PL appearance, you are on the HoS, period. After a mandatory 6-month waiting period, you may petition for removal from the HoS, which will be put to a community vote, majority rules. That's what HoS means, period.

 

I've skipped maybe 40 pages of discussion, so I'm probably missing something, but you seem to be ruling out the possibility of someone being voted directly into the HoS after a particularly egregious violation even if the person had not previously been on the PL.

 

Do we want to do that?

 

Well, let's think how a "particularly egregious" violation would play out here...I'll invent a hypothetical. Suppose I bought a $10,000 book from Boardie A...sent him a personal check ( ). He never sends me the book...instead, he sends me a PM saying "so long, sucker" and he later posts a picture of himself lounging on the beach in the Caymans with my book in his hand. I then nominate him for the PL...he's there forever, or until he repays my $10,000. In other words, he will be on the PL forever. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no effective difference in marketplace practical terms between being on the PL or the HoS...so, why would this person need to be on the HoS, rather than perpetual PL? If he shows back up 5 years later and repays me my $10,000 + interest, he comes off the PL. Fine. So, let's ask ourselves...what's wrong with this?

 

Here's where I would disagree. In a case like this, I don't think a make good exists. A person who behaved in this way -- even as a first offense -- ought to be enshrined in the HoS to provide a head's up to buyers in a future sales thread.

[cloud cloddie]

i don't get it? we're all willing to over look his shady actions based on technicalities? that's foolish ... there's countless stories on here about his buisness ethics, he hasn't even attempted to deny any of them because they are all true and he knows it. I posted a post about him on Instagram and about 10 more stories popped out the woodwork with in 10 mins. I'm new to the boards in a sence I don't post much but I run multiple businesses so I'm not new to dealing with people and money. Guys like him no matter what list you make or put him on are cancers and if not cut out immediately will spread, by allowing him to Wiesel out of the HOS on a technicality your encouraging other wiesels to take a shot at shady tactics. as I was once told on the boards "time is a flat circle" if you allow him back your opening pandoras box and history will repeat. just my 2 cents now back to the Cowboys game ?

 

It was hard to wade through the posts to see it, but some people wanted actual pm/screen caps and such from you since you're the main nominator. If you could provide those, it would make his nomination a lot easier

[Sqeggs]

I really believe the PL is often used as a tool to manipulate bad transactions into completed transactions. Are we really condoning a seller who insists a buyer pays $500 for a $50 book? This turns my stomach and I could never, in good faith, "force" a buyer to complete such a transaction.

 

Has this ever happened? Serious question.

 

Yes. Only a handful of times that I recall. Some are still on the list I believe.

 

Be interesting to see the specifics, although I realize digging them out would be a chore.

 

I don't follow this thread regularly, but I can't recall an instance that fits this description.

[EC ed]

I appreciate all of your efforts, I really do, but making this thing a "mathematical formula" is the wrong way to go.

 

+1

 

OK...I was just trying to flesh out what the formulaic approach would look like. Remember, a few pages back I elaborated a less formulaic approach, which was criticized for being too subjective.

 

So, too much subjectivity is a problem, and too much of a formulaic approach is a problem. So, we're back to the line drawing problem...where to draw the line, in particular.

Edited January 11, 2015 by edowens71

[CAHokie]

That is correct Baba. When I think of Adonis, he is the type I think of when I think of the PL. He is not a scammer, but someone that has a less than stellar business model but will make sure (eventually) that you get what is owed. After being put on the PL, it appears that he has made a point (to the best of my knowledge) to make sure actually shipping the stuff is a priority. If so, so then the PL worked as designed.

 

I was against HOS on him. If he continued to do to others what he did to me over and over again, then I would consider that a repeat offender and consider changing my mind.

 

The difference is, in my own mind at least, is that I will make decisions that I feel is best for the boards. I really like this place and want the right thing to always be done. The guy putting up Hus may not feel that same way, and an offer of a cool book may be all it takes to remove him. (Note: I am using nominator in general and not saying this nominator would necessarily do this)

 

 

If you had all the history you would not have this opinion. If you said no to the former then no to the latter is ano brainer.

 

I don't know if I am following you correctly. History of Adonis, or history of the formation of the HOS and PL? I agree, that if I was around during the formation of the rules, I may have a different point of view. All I have is what I read in them, and the experiences I have seen. That is why I completely respect the opinions of those that helped form them.

[4comix]

i don't get it? we're all willing to over look his shady actions based on technicalities? that's foolish ... there's countless stories on here about his buisness ethics, he hasn't even attempted to deny any of them because they are all true and he knows it. I posted a post about him on Instagram and about 10 more stories popped out the woodwork with in 10 mins. I'm new to the boards in a sence I don't post much but I run multiple businesses so I'm not new to dealing with people and money. Guys like him no matter what list you make or put him on are cancers and if not cut out immediately will spread, by allowing him to Wiesel out of the HOS on a technicality your encouraging other wiesels to take a shot at shady tactics. as I was once told on the boards "time is a flat circle" if you allow him back your opening pandoras box and history will repeat. just my 2 cents now back to the Cowboys game ?

 

It was hard to wade through the posts to see it, but some people wanted actual pm/screen caps and such from you since you're the main nominator. If you could provide those, it would make his nomination a lot easier

 

what do you want to see to help? we texted back and forth I have no problem at all sharing that conversation if that helps? you can also go on 4comix Instagram page and see more stories? I'll do what ever helps... is there a way to extract a whole conversation off an iPhone? or is multiple screen shots and piecing them together the only way? thanks

[MetalPSI]

I apologize for the rest of the illuminati

 

We don't mean to rule your lives, but we do.

 

No you don't

That was a joke son.

 

Wasn't funny

:shrug: Ok

 

Please don't call me son or boy either.

You got it. Anything else?

 

Sell me all your maxx and ticks comics

[CAHokie]

4Comix: Yes, that would be a big help for everyone to see in whatever form you can piece them together.