PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

 

What amount of restitution will eliminate fraudulent behavior to the point where clear notice of who and what he is is not a necessity to people using the sales forums?

[dave32563]

I've got an idea. Why not have one of the boardies that does not think this is HOS worthy craft a HOS nomination poll in their own words, crafted however they would like. Then we can all vote and see how it comes out. That way Hustruck gets the best representation he could ask for. Just an idea....

[4comix]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

it's physically impossible as the book has been sold to another buyer via eBay ??

Edited January 12, 2015 by 4comix

[NTHstars]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

But there is no basis for dealing with him in good faith, on this matter or any other, because there is no admission of total responsibility for what has transpired, repeatedly. For someone to move ahead with a transaction now, like on a high priced Hulk 181, would be beyond silly.

[jsilverjanet]

I've got an idea. Why not have one of the boardies that does not think this is HOS worthy craft a HOS nomination poll in their own words, crafted however they would like. Then we can all vote and see how it comes out. That way Hustruck gets the best representation he could ask for. Just an idea....

 

I believe PovertyRow was putting something together.

 

As for the "lawyers", I'm not one but just like Police officers, they can seem "fill in your adjective" until you need one.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2015 by jsilverjanet

[KPR Comics]

Seem what?

[Iceman399]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

 

That's the 1st fraud, the lie about the case is 2a. The picture of "the case" was fraud 2b is support of fraud 2a.

 

Given all the subsequent discussion there are most likely more, but no one really needs more at this point...at least they shouldn't.

 

Yes, they should.

 

Presales happen ALL the time. The difference here is poor communication. Did he say he had it or did the buyer assume?

2nd was to cover his and he needs to make it right with 4comix.

 

Poor communication? In what world is this just poor communication? I guess those Nigerian emails I get are just poor communications as well.

[revat]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

it's physically impossible as the book has been sold to another buyer via eBay ??

 

Actually it is possible, assuming that one graded IH 181 is as good as another. HT can complete the deal any time he likes. There are numerous venues (physical and internet) that sell comics. Many of those people sell IH 181. He could buy any one of those comics and sell it at the originally agreed upon price. Or he could pay him the difference between the ebay guy eventually sold it for and the purchase price.

 

I think those would both be adequate (although not great) restitution, even better if he toss him 10% more or discounts 10% for his troubles.

 

I think if he was on the probation list, this would be adequate restitution. But I think most of us feel that due to all the intentional lies/omissions, the attempts at cover ups, the victim blaming, the shady payment situations, that even restitution (as if HT would be man enough to make it) would not be enough for ANYONE here to think that dealing with him is acceptable again.

[slym2none]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[jsilverjanet]

 

Yes, they should.

 

Presales happen ALL the time. The difference here is poor communication. Did he say he had it or did the buyer assume?

2nd was to cover his and he needs to make it right with 4comix.

 

it's a shame his original sales thread was locked then poofed. I'm certain that he didn't mention a presale (though sometimes sellers won't) but i do remember him specifically not listing the label (which was a concern).

 

Did anyone ask if he had it in hand? I don't remember if it was asked

[comix4fun]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

 

That's the 1st fraud, the lie about the case is 2a. The picture of "the case" was fraud 2b is support of fraud 2a.

 

Given all the subsequent discussion there are most likely more, but no one really needs more at this point...at least they shouldn't.

 

Yes, they should.

 

Presales happen ALL the time. The difference here is poor communication. Did he say he had it or did the buyer assume?

2nd was to cover his and he needs to make it right with 4comix.

 

 

 

Wait? What? Presale?

 

Presales happen all the time when it's called a presale?

 

When someone offers a book for sale they are making the tacit claim that they own it to sell in the first place. It's a basic term of the agreement to sell.

 

Maybe you need to reread the texts with the pictures of the broken slab. He was crystal clear that the pictured book was the book he was selling and the reasons why he wasn't sending it to the buyer, all of which (from the statements to the photos) were fraudulent and false.

 

This isn't "poor" communication, this is intentionally deceitful communication. Nothing about it is honest in the least. "Poor Communication" implies some innocence on the part of Hustruck's words or some misunderstanding on 4Comix part. Like it's just a case of people not understanding each other. I challenge anyone to show me how Hustruck wasn't lying from day one. Omitting key details, inventing others entirely in his imagination, from stem to stern it's a boat made entirely of wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

Why do you think it matters that he was "covering his " with the lies?

 

It doesn't really matter WHY he lied in the middle of a transaction (and WHY he lied about owning a book, having the book in his possession, about the slab being damaged, etc) it matters simply THAT he lied and continued to lie, and then lied to cover the earlier lies.

 

If you want to protect the HOS from including people who don't belong there I can respect that. What I disagree with is the exclusion of anyone who has demonstrated this much deception and deceit in any transaction, completed or not, high dollar figure or not, entirely successful or not.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

 

That's the 1st fraud, the lie about the case is 2a. The picture of "the case" was fraud 2b is support of fraud 2a.

 

Given all the subsequent discussion there are most likely more, but no one really needs more at this point...at least they shouldn't.

 

Yes, they should.

 

Presales happen ALL the time. The difference here is poor communication. Did he say he had it or did the buyer assume?

2nd was to cover his and he needs to make it right with 4comix.

 

Poor communication? In what world is this just poor communication? I guess those Nigerian emails I get are just poor communications as well.

 

I have to agree. Jeff, that is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard in awhile - poor communication?!

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

But there is no basis for dealing with him in good faith, on this matter or any other, because there is no admission of total responsibility for what has transpired, repeatedly. For someone to move ahead with a transaction now, like on a high priced Hulk 181, would be beyond silly.

 

Yes, silly, but I don't feel I have the right to tell a buyer not to deal with him, only warn them.

 

 

Those are the same thing. Unless you practice mind control, telling a buyer not to deal with someone and warning them about that same someone have the exact same effect.

 

It's not a death sentence, it's a permanent list of warning. Nothing Hustruck does will un-ring the bell of his wildly_fanciful_statement. If he completed the other 47% of the cure for cancer we can start a new poll to take him off. However, at that point, I doubt he'll care about selling comics.

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

 

What amount of restitution will eliminate fraudulent behavior to the point where clear notice of who and what he is is not a necessity to people using the sales forums?

 

Up to the offended party and the new potential trading partner.

 

It was a trick question.....the fraudulent behavior will always be there.

 

There's no dollar figure that will make what he did in this instance anything close to honest. He can get 4comix his book but he'll have always acted dishonestly in this deal.

 

And if you remove the notice and remove the information the "new potential trading partner" is deprived of the information needed to choose whether or not to deal with him.

[dave32563]

From now on if I want a book in the sales thread. do I have to post the following?

 

(If you actually have the slabbed book in hand or have reasonably close access to it. If you do not have the exact slab you displayed for sale, then my is pending if you can find one with the same grade and PQ. If you can't meet these requirements, then ignore my

 

Is this the new standard for the sales forum?

[HarveySwick]

Jeff, I have respected your posts for a long time despite disagreeing with them at times.

 

I think you are so off base with your latest argument and your reasons for having HusTruck inducted into the HOS I'm starting to feel that you're only doing it for post count and you enjoy playing devil's advocate. You're becoming an autocontrarian.

 

Poor communication. Characterizing what HusTruck did as a presale and making it seem innocent. Even victimizing HusTruck.

[HarveySwick]

I was about to begin discussing the differences between what a presale is and what Hustruck did and decided - - I'm not going to bother.

 

If you don't know the difference between what HusTruck did and a presale, I don't think anyone will be able to explain the difference to you.

[comix4fun]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

 

That's the 1st fraud, the lie about the case is 2a. The picture of "the case" was fraud 2b is support of fraud 2a.

 

Given all the subsequent discussion there are most likely more, but no one really needs more at this point...at least they shouldn't.

 

Yes, they should.

 

Presales happen ALL the time. The difference here is poor communication. Did he say he had it or did the buyer assume?

2nd was to cover his and he needs to make it right with 4comix.

 

 

 

Wait? What? Presale?

 

Presales happen all the time when it's called a presale?

 

When someone offers a book for sale they are making the tacit claim that they own it to sell in the first place. It's a basic term of the agreement to sell.

 

Maybe you need to reread the texts with the pictures of the broken slab. He was crystal clear that the pictured book was the book he was selling and the reasons why he wasn't sending it to the buyer, all of which (from the statements to the photos) were fraudulent and false.

 

This isn't "poor" communication, this is intentionally deceitful communication. Nothing about it is honest in the least. "Poor Communication" implies some innocence on the part of Hustruck's words or some misunderstanding on 4Comix part. Like it's just a case of people not understanding each other. I challenge anyone to show me how Hustruck wasn't lying from day one. Omitting key details, inventing others entirely in his imagination, from stem to stern it's a boat made entirely of wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

Why do you think it matters that he was "covering his " with the lies?

 

It doesn't really matter WHY he lied in the middle of a transaction (and WHY he lied about owning a book, having the book in his possession, about the slab being damaged, etc) it matters simply THAT he lied and continued to lie, and then lied to cover the earlier lies.

 

If you want to protect the HOS from including people who don't belong there I can respect that. What I disagree with is the exclusion of anyone who has demonstrated this much deception and deceit in any transaction, completed or not, high dollar figure or not, entirely successful or not.

 

 

This is a real eye opener that someone in your profession cares so little for intent and motivation. It really saddens me. Perhaps prosecuting the hungry bread thief is next.

 

 

 

Come on, don't muddy this simple situation with allusions to criminal prosecution. He's a liar, he's shown himself to be a liar. Now he's Jean Valjean? Why not Robin Hood?

 

Intent? The intent was to deceive. He's extraordinarily bad at it, but that was his intent.

It matters little to none why he was doing it, what he was going to to subsequent, how he was going to spend the money.

 

Motivation? Was he going to use the money to feed orphans? Why read into why he's doing it at all? His go-to move was to lie and deceive. People deserve to know. Why does he deserve deference for motivations he has himself failed to reveal.

 

I prefer actual statements, made by the actual people, over assumptions of potential motivation and intent that no one has even dared claim to date.

 

Someone "in my profession" knows when he's looking at a liar, and when he's seen someone who has no problem lying in the midst of a deal, even when there's little to gain. The ones who lie with little to nothing to gain are the ones you really have to worry about. Someone who lies with almost nothing to gain is even less trustworthy than someone who needs to be tempted by a big "score" to compromise their ethics.

 

I am not talking about putting him in jail, I am talking about letting people know what he is, what HE'S REVEALED HIMSELF TO BE.

 

I don't see the downside of full and clear warning, in big bold letters, of exactly who he has shown himself to be. What he's shown himself to be overall, not simply in this transaction.

 

 

 

 

[CAHokie]

Agreed. I honestly thought you were making these arguments to keep the integrity of the lists intact. That is something that I could respect, even though I disagree with your reasoning. Now it appears you are grasping at straws, arguing just to argue, or completely unwilling or unable to see what is right in front of you.

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

Which is why he should remain on the PL until he makes restitution.

 

But there is no basis for dealing with him in good faith, on this matter or any other, because there is no admission of total responsibility for what has transpired, repeatedly. For someone to move ahead with a transaction now, like on a high priced Hulk 181, would be beyond silly.

 

Yes, silly, but I don't feel I have the right to tell a buyer not to deal with him, only warn them.

 

 

Those are the same thing. Unless you practice mind control, telling a buyer not to deal with someone and warning them about that same someone have the exact same effect.

 

It's not a death sentence, it's a permanent list of warning. Nothing Hustruck does will un-ring the bell of his wildly_fanciful_statement. If he completed the other 47% of the cure for cancer we can start a new poll to take him off. However, at that point, I doubt he'll care about selling comics.

 

They are not the same thing. It seems your vacation has clouded your understanding of the boards.

 

If they are the same thing then I guess you're good with leaving him where he is.

 

 

Maybe you need some time away...Logic and Reasoning exist undaunted by any potential alternate board universe.

 

Did the HOS get adopted by the Mods that I don't know about? It's still simply a warning. You aren't telling anyone they can or cannot deal with anyone else. One is more temporary and is tied to transaction that have some gray area that may be corrected. One is more permanent and is used when someone erases all doubt as to whether they can be trusted.

 

They are still both simply warnings.