PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[revat]

Personally I see no difference in this case in lying not to lose money and lying to gain money. From what was posted I think he tanked the deal to buy the ebay book on purpose to avoid losing money on the flip.

 

Also possible, but why negotiate a price on Instagram for less than your purchase price, when you know exactly how much you bought it for?

 

Why not let people on Instagram or here on the boards that you don't have the book in hand yet?

 

You could just cancel your ebay purchase outright if you don't like the price anymore. Why even agree to sell at a lower price then back out?

 

 

Why would you not agree to pay via paypal, but beg for acceptance via paypal? Then make up a story directly after transaction is attempted in person.

 

Why keep up the lies?

 

Its circumstantial, but there's too many things that don't make sense unless he's trying to A) pull a fast one on the seller or the buyer or both, B) or he's dumb to the point where its criminal, and/or C) suffers from some mental problems (my vote is actually on the mental problems, as he thinks he's going to be a doctor soon and cure cancer and yet would randomly threaten muay thai and make homophobic remarks)

 

Either way, these aren't the type of things like slow shipping, undergrading, bad packaging, slow paying, that are likely to be corrected or improved with time and experience, especially as there has been no admissions or remorse. When confronted with the facts, he continues to lie. That's SHAMEFUL.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

it's evident to me that no matter what the argument is made Jeff is standing by what he believes and he has every right to do that. I disagree but good for him to take that stand.

 

Have a safe flight

[comix4fun]

 

Show me where he lied or deceived with the INTENT of making money. Very relevant to me. Whether he made or lost money I agree is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Why you've chosen this particular windmill to tilt at is puzzling me to my core.

 

Re-framing the debate in this way is painting yourself into a corner, which I also don't understand.

 

The next steps become questions regarding whether or not it's ok to lie and deceive as long as you aren't trying to make money. Which I don't want to ask.

[4comix]

ok let's clear this up...

 

-Cgcboy/ hustruck SAID HE HAD THE BOOK IN HAND-LIE

-said he needed to be paid by money order or check because his paypal was messed up - LIE

when told I have family there and will meet in person to exchange cash he said the case cracked and he had to return it- LIE

-sent a pic stolen off the boards of a cracked case-stolen to assist in a lie

 

He never recieved the book we know because the ebay seller said so-so again a lie

 

he's changed his name now on the boards and blocked any board member off his IG page.

 

this should be a done deal... the ironic part is all the people trying to help him all still say they wouldn't deal with him ? he serves no purpose here on the boards and if you debate he shouldn't be on the list that's your right to do so... your vote will then be "no" if you do then vote "yes" this has become way more technical than it has to be... he's not giving me a new book, he's not refunding me money.... he's not saying anything here stated about him isn't true. please can we just put this in the books and move on?

[CAHokie]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

[jsilverjanet]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

 

you should quote or name the person you are speaking to. someone could get the wrong idea - I assume this is for Jeff

[HarveySwick]

Agreed. I honestly thought you were making these arguments to keep the integrity of the lists intact. That is something that I could respect, even though I disagree with your reasoning. Now it appears you are grasping at straws, arguing just to argue, or completely unwilling or unable to see what is right in front of you.

 

I am still arguing for the integrity.

 

I see a liar. I see a shady seller with bad business practices, poor ethics, cutting corners with no experience.

 

What I don't see is a thief which is what I reserve the HOS for. I disagree that if he was smarter he would steal. I think if he was smarter he would have better business practices and not feel the pressure to cover his for bad decisions.

 

 

 

Why is it less of a transgression to lie in a deal to cover your for bad decisions than it is to lie in a deal to make money?

 

They are both selfish, dishonest, fraudulent actions. Whether it's to put money in your pocket or to prevent losing money from your pocket it's a choice he made to lie and to cheat.

 

He has poor business practices, so he makes up for it by lying to the people he contracts to deal with, even when there's no money to be made. Do you think adding in the opportunity to make money on top of that will provide MORE or LESS temptation for him to act in the same manner? He's already lied and cheated for nothing. Add cash incentive on top and which way do you see it going?

 

That's a pretty big personality revelation you want to discount because he didn't make off with cash at the end.

 

I guess we can't agree. Motivation and intent are very big concepts for me.

 

What other motivation and intent could there be for HusTruck to attempt to buy a book from eBay and immediately sell it here other than profit?!

[revat]

 

Show me where he lied or deceived with the INTENT of making money. Very relevant to me. Whether he made or lost money I agree is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Why you've chosen this particular windmill to tilt at is puzzling me to my core.

 

Re-framing the debate in this way is painting yourself into a corner, which I also don't understand.

 

The next steps become questions regarding whether or not it's ok to lie and deceive as long as you aren't trying to make money. Which I don't want to ask.

 

He's actually using a pretty good defense that lawyer's use pretty regularly in real fraud cases.

 

"Isn't it possible that this man is so stupid that he doesn't grasp the basics of business and social protocols? Listen to the way he talks, he honestly thinks he's going to be a doctor! He's barely making B's at community college, he thinks he's going to cure cancer! I agree, he made a mistake, and should make it right. But it wasn't intentional, he just has a higher opinion of his business acumen then he should, and didn't pay enough attention to detail. But he's not a criminal. They were honest, sloppy mistakes, made by a simpleton. We should be trying to get him help, not throwing him in jail. Lets give him a chance to make it right. If he doesn't, the conviction will follow him around forever anyway, and that's punishment enough."

 

Now I would say that there's enough evidence (especially in the cover up) for a jury to see he knows he did something wrong, and that fraud was committed, but the defense presented IS legitimate, while it probably wouldn't win.

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

Teach us Jeff. Explain to the members of the unruly mob carrying torches.

 

How can you simply dismiss HusTruck's actions as "poor communication" or "no different than a presale"?

 

(1) He started a sales thread intentionally hiding the label and certification number.

(2) Scared off the original eBay seller of the book so much with his shady attempts at payment, the seller cancelled the deal.

(3) Informed his buyer of the book that the book had a cracked case so he didn't feel comfortable selling him a book with a cracked case and didn't want to make the buyer wait for it to get back from CGC

(4) Used photos from a completely different book that had been used by another Boardie to further the fraudulent claims of a cracked case.

(5) Attempted to claim that the eBay seller gave him permission to use those photographs.

 

HOW?! How is that "poor communication" or "no different than a presale"?

 

Can't wait to hear your response.

 

This is part of the problem. The only point applicable to the sale is #1. People don't like it but pics with no label or a blocked serial number is not uncommon. I assume any potential buyer could ask.

 

 

He told the buyer that he would send him pictures of the book's broken case to show him why he's not sending it to him. He claimed it was a picture of the very book he was selling to the buyer. Then he sent the picture of a book that was listed here on the forum by another seller that wasn't the book in question and was simply a lifted picture.

 

3, 4, and 5 are all deceptions and lies in the middle of this particular transaction. How in the world would those factors NOT be germane to this discussion.

 

Did you not know that the picture was stolen from another listing here in the boards and wasn't the 181 in question?

 

#1 is the only applicable point for the sales THREAD.

 

3 parts

 

Sales thread - no lies, poor communication. Stating what Dre posted and there would be no problem.

 

2) completing the sale - lies to cover his like any child would do. I think of a cornered animal. Restitution to 4 comix.

 

3) follow up - more lies. If he came here explained, apologized and changed then likely no issues.

 

Maybe I needed to say sales thread as opposed to sale.

 

That makes more sense.

 

It's still incorrect, but at least it makes more sense.

 

The sales thread itself was a lie, he never owned or possessed that book.

 

The completing the sale portion is part of the sales thread. The sales thread created the need to complete the sale. Everything he did or said after that sales thread, to induce someone to buy, is part of the sales thread and is part of the discussion for discipline/warning. #3, 4, and 5 all came in the completing the sale portion. They were all lies in furtherance of the sales thread.

 

Honest people take the bullet themselves when they screw up. Dishonest people find any way possible to put that on someone else, anyone else. It doesn't matter to them who gets hurt, doesn't get their book, relied on their word, or otherwise gets the short end of the stick because they aren't mature enough, honest enough, or forthright enough to take the consequences of their miscalculations and errors.

 

It's the true test of a person, how they react when they've made a mistake or when they face some kind of potential loss. Do they honor their word no matter the personal cost? Or do they break their word, lie, cheat, or otherwise put the burden of that mistake on innocent parties?

 

There's a lot to be learned about Hustruck here if we allow ourselves.

[CAHokie]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

 

you should quote or name the person you are speaking to. someone could get the wrong idea - I assume this is for Jeff

 

Who else could it possibly be for?

[bababooey]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

 

you should quote or name the person you are speaking to. someone could get the wrong idea - I assume this is for Jeff

 

Who else could it possibly be for?

[comix4fun]

Agreed. I honestly thought you were making these arguments to keep the integrity of the lists intact. That is something that I could respect, even though I disagree with your reasoning. Now it appears you are grasping at straws, arguing just to argue, or completely unwilling or unable to see what is right in front of you.

 

I am still arguing for the integrity.

 

I see a liar. I see a shady seller with bad business practices, poor ethics, cutting corners with no experience.

 

What I don't see is a thief which is what I reserve the HOS for. I disagree that if he was smarter he would steal. I think if he was smarter he would have better business practices and not feel the pressure to cover his for bad decisions.

 

 

 

Why is it less of a transgression to lie in a deal to cover your for bad decisions than it is to lie in a deal to make money?

 

They are both selfish, dishonest, fraudulent actions. Whether it's to put money in your pocket or to prevent losing money from your pocket it's a choice he made to lie and to cheat.

 

He has poor business practices, so he makes up for it by lying to the people he contracts to deal with, even when there's no money to be made. Do you think adding in the opportunity to make money on top of that will provide MORE or LESS temptation for him to act in the same manner? He's already lied and cheated for nothing. Add cash incentive on top and which way do you see it going?

 

That's a pretty big personality revelation you want to discount because he didn't make off with cash at the end.

 

I guess we can't agree. Motivation and intent are very big concepts for me.

 

 

If he was motivated to lie by some big potential payday it might make more sense.

 

I find it far more revealing that he was willing to destroy any and all personal integrity for almost nothing or to prevent himself from losing a few hundred dollars (as he seems to have done here).

 

The fact that he did it for almost nothing makes him far more dangerous in a transaction than someone who only folded after enough cash was waved in their face. Someone who would lie for nothing would lie for anything.

 

That's a pretty big concept.

[jsilverjanet]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

 

you should quote or name the person you are speaking to. someone could get the wrong idea - I assume this is for Jeff

 

Who else could it possibly be for?

 

:shrug:

 

it looks like you are talking to yourself, Jeff or Hustruck

 

who the hell knows

[Iceman399]

So can we vote on a forum judge jury prosecution and defense team?

[comix4fun]

4 comix said he claimed the book was in hand. Proof of that and my case goes in the round recycle bin.

 

 

Proof of that has been shown roughly 5 times now? Can you not see images on your phone?

 

The text messages with photos of the book, that he said he received damaged from the seller he bought it from, have been posted several times now...once in the last hour.

 

He sent the picture to 4comix as proof of the damage, that were going to make him return the book to the person he bought it from, and proof that he was being "100% honest" with 4comix.

[CAHokie]

So you don't care about someone's motive, statements or actions as long as there is no profit in the end?

 

you should quote or name the person you are speaking to. someone could get the wrong idea - I assume this is for Jeff

 

Who else could it possibly be for?

 

:shrug:

 

it looks like you are talking to yourself, Jeff or Hustruck

 

who the hell knows

 

Sorry you were confused. You were most likely the only one who did not know it was for Bragnet, since I replied to Bragnet and he answered it. He is also the only one who argued a few posts prior that money profit was an important factor.

 

 

[EC ed]

So can we vote on a forum judge jury prosecution and defense team?

 

This is not a crazy idea, actually.

 

edit: and, we'd sit a jury for each HOS case, and their decision is binding...no other voting necessary

 

Edited January 12, 2015 by edowens71

[CAHokie]

Branget: (So you know it is for you without quoting 7 quotes)

 

How would you ever know why someone lies or what goes on in their heads? By that standard, very few people would be guilty. You have to go by their actions and statements.

[ChiSoxFan]

 

Lies and deceipt post sales thread so I don't see lies to make money. I see lies to save his butt.

 

A reasonable assumption would be that those lies and deceit post-thread -- as well as his recent name-change to attempt to hide the stink of his behavior from anyone not following this saga --were done in an attempt to avoid the PL and possible HOS stigma, the avoidance of which would allow him to continue to sell and buy here with far less resistance than if he is on either list -- certainly a means to continue to make money (even if it's future money), no?

[jsilverjanet]

So can we vote on a forum judge jury prosecution and defense team?

 

This is not a crazy idea, actually.

 

I would like to be Judge, give me a chance to try on of those cool wigs