PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Gem_Mint]

 

It took someone getting Hustrucked (or is it CGCBoy'd now) to drag me back to this forum, thanks a lot.

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

[KPR Comics]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

I would say just let it drop. There's enough in this thread, and enough in the memory banks of many of us, for people to go back to in the event a CGCboy thread pops up. Otherwise, this is going to re-devolve into a Illuminati vs the world, star chamber vs the rest, oligarchy vs commoners, long-timers vs noob mob conversation. That is not productive.

[Red84]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

I would say just let it drop. There's enough in this thread, and enough in the memory banks of many of us, for people to go back to in the event a CGCboy thread pops up. Otherwise, this is going to re-devolve into a Illuminati vs the world, star chamber vs the rest, oligarchy vs commoners, long-timers vs noob mob conversation. That is not productive.

 

Fair enough. Ignore is good enough for me.

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

[comix4fun]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

Someone commits fraud, and is busted red handed, in the middle of a transaction on a $2k book, it doesn't really get clearer that this is someone who can't be trusted whatsoever. So, yeah, crystal clear.

 

The fact that he's maintained the lie and dug the hole deeper just further demonstrates what kind of person this is and where exactly he belongs. $1 or $1 million dollars matters little when we are talking about someone pulling back the curtain on their own heart and showing you what he's shown us.

 

I can't imagine ever doing business in this way and, given the facts, I can't imagine anyone else wanting to do business with someone whose go-to move is fraud.

[KPR Comics]

Totally agree. It's just that we are getting sidetracked when 15 oz of the the pound of flesh have already been taken. I, like you, was incensed w/the fraud. And still am. But the life sentence has been imposed by virtue of the many, many diligent posters in this thread that will make sure others remember what kind of character CGCboy is.

Ignore is fine (I used it too), but in this case, you may miss the opportunity to warn others if you put that seller on ignore.

 

[comix4fun]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

 

Did 4comix get his book at the terms agreed upon?

 

Why didn't he?

 

 

[comix4fun]

Totally agree. It's just that we are getting sidetracked when 15 oz of the the pound of flesh have already been taken. I, like you, was incensed w/the fraud. And still am. But the life sentence has been imposed by virtue of the many, many diligent posters in this thread that will make sure others remember what kind of character CGCboy is.

Ignore is fine (I used it too), but in this case, you may miss the opportunity to warn others if you put that seller on ignore.

 

I used ignore so that, no matter how many times he changes his name, I will be reminded.

 

I am having a hard time seeing the name change and the current discussion as a coincidence.

[revat]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

[CAHokie]

its wheter or not the "underlying charges" are enough to sustain the indictment.

 

Seriously? Do the lawyers on this board not get enough courtroom time in their daily lives that they are replicating it here? The burden of proof is not the same. Again, it's a chatboard, not a criminal indictment. It is ok to use common sense and the smell test at times. I am sure that those voting no will be willing to drop the debate, because dropping the debate is the same as ignoring the 120 yes votes.

[dave32563]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

I would say just let it drop. There's enough in this thread, and enough in the memory banks of many of us, for people to go back to in the event a CGCboy thread pops up. Otherwise, this is going to re-devolve into a Illuminati vs the world, star chamber vs the rest, oligarchy vs commoners, long-timers vs noob mob conversation. That is not productive.

 

Seems like this is exactly what has already occurred once the overwhelming vote results were voided by the minority.

[comix4fun]

Do we have to start a new poll and nomination or can we just honor the previous one?

 

 

If everyone is worried about all the extraneous stuff being used to make this decision I suppose we can create a new one with the simple facts of this particular instance of fraud, along with him being caught in the lie, attempting to maintain it, and being exposed for lying in his attempt to maintain the original lie and that should be enough to get a "clean" vote.

 

I doubt, at this point, if mention of his previous activities would even be necessary given how clearly he was busted in the midst of this deceptive dealing.

 

Clear HOS to you, not even close for me.

 

He tried to sell a comic he did not own, OR have possession of. If you offer something for sale, it is absolutely implied that you own (or have a clear right to that item, or have been granted agency to sell that item (sell for a friend, consignment, etc). If you do not own that item and have attempted to sell and collect money for that item without disclosing things like (I've not yet paid for the item and I do not have possession of the item), you have committed fraud. You have intentionally misrepresented AND omitted relevant facts while attempting to make a sale.

 

That's the 1st fraud, the lie about the case is 2a. The picture of "the case" was fraud 2b is support of fraud 2a.

 

Given all the subsequent discussion there are most likely more, but no one really needs more at this point...at least they shouldn't.

[KPR Comics]

Yep. That's why I used the term "re-devolve"

[dave32563]

Yep. That's why I used the term "re-devolve"

 

(thumbs u

[wombat]

So what exactly is the process for even determining if a HOS poll will be posted? Clearly some people think HOS is warranted and others do not.

[CAHokie]

So what exactly is the process for even determining if a HOS poll will be posted? Clearly some people think HOS is warranted and others do not.

 

It would appear that you need to run it past the board lawyers so they can check it for legal language, precedent and interpretation before the majority are allowed to have an opposing opinion.

[bababooey]

So what exactly is the process for even determining if a HOS poll will be posted? Clearly some people think HOS is warranted and others do not.

 

It would appear that you need to run it past the board lawyers so they can check it for legal language, precedent and interpretation before the majority are allowed to have an opposing opinion.

 

Or just run it with the facts related to a failed transaction that was additionally compromised by shady behaviour/attempted fraud. If that's what has been documented.

 

P.S. - Nothing about him 'kicking his dog' or other past idiocy need be rehashed in an HOS poll

P.S.part the second. - The poll should not be deleted.

 

[revat]

Continually lying to cover his . I don't see continually lying to rip someone off. The former is PL and the latter is HOS.

 

 

Lying in the middle of a business transaction is fraud. One time is one time too many.

 

Continually lying in the middle and after a business transaction is even worse, but irrelevant, given that the initial fraud is enough to show inability to deal in a fair and honest manner.

 

Fraud for what gain?

 

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Fraud doesn't require that the fraudster is smart enough to actually gain something. It only requires that he commit the fraud and that the fraud be committed against someone and that someone winds up without exactly what he bargained for in the deal. He may have plotted some personal gain, he may have assumed he was going to make something that no one else can see. The bottom line is, he made a deal, and in order to alter that deal he lied to alter the terms, making the fraud crystal clear.

 

He could have been honest and maintained some type of ethical business behavior, but he didn't. He chose the dark path of deception.

 

There are plenty of stupid criminals and low-IQ fraudsters out there.

 

They don't have to be smart about it or good at it to get punished for it.

 

 

A penny or a pound, it matters not when terpitude is on parade.

 

For me there is the difference between the PL and the HOS. If his plan was never to rip someone off then how can that not play a part?

 

I would say there's a fair amount of evidence to imply SOME TYPE of 'ripping off' was a possibility.

 

1. Most people on ebay just pay paypal, straight up. HT did not or was not able to pay for his purchase using paypal, DESPITE ASKING FOR PAYPAL FROM HIS BUYER. Why?

2. HT attempted to pay through multiple routes, with some payments failing (check w/initials, echeck), others being untraceable. Most people who have bank accounts AND afford $2300 comics can just right a personal check (can't cash the first one? send another with a real signature) straight up or send a legit money order with relative simplicity. There has to be very real doubts about the HT's ability to pay for the comic originally. But instead of just cancelling the order, he kept trying...why?

3. As for the sale, what kind of person begs for paypal payments (while not even having the comic), but won't pay using paypal (presumably earlier that week).

4. Who wouldn't rather have cash in hand and save on paypal fees (and possibly taxes, if that's how you roll. I know you're all thinking that HT meticulously tracks his comics sales and reports all profits to tax authorities). I guess if you're rolling in cash you don't care about the moneys.

 

Note: This is all before he backed out of his sales deal and lied about the reason, going so far as to swipe pics from someone else to support his lie about a broken slab.

 

FRAUD has occurred. Tough to prove in a criminal or civil court as it would be very difficult to show damages, although the seller might be able to show some if he sold it for less.

 

I know its not quite the same as a receiving a box full of tissues, but I'm not too sure anyone be surprised if the check bounced on the purchase side, and a box of tissues arrived on the sales side, otherwise, why sell it for so much less than purchase price? Is that all speculation? Mostly.

 

But we're not trying to prove he owes someone money, or that he should go to jail, just showing ENOUGH to be sure that no one on these boards wants to deal with him, and will ever want to deal with him going forward.

 

I think we're all pretty sure of that? But as has been stated, the HOS means something different to different people, which I'm ok with.

[porcupine48]

HOSTRUCK.

I can't believe no one said this yet.