PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[paperheart]

Would like to nominate Goosie for the Probation List. PM'd him a list of books on 4/30 in response to his WTB thread; a price and method of payment was agreed upon via PM. On 5/2 an additional book was added to the list, again price and method of payment agreed upon on that date. A gentle PM reminder sent on 5/6, which was read but not responded to. Know of two other boardies (who may come forward to confirm) that he stiffed in similar fashion. The amount is piddling (which isn't the point). Goosie hasn't posted since 5/4, came on guns blazing and found out he was carrying a pea shooter. Anyway, that's my case.

 

Send him a new PM, separate from the others. informing he is going to be put on the PL in 3 days. If you don't hear back he can be added.

 

Sent 7/2/12

 

 

Can you pick up a newspaper and PM me the lotto numbers for yesterday?

 

4 8 15 16 23 42 and FB will be at $23.50

[medusanyc]

i am not sure this is the place for this but i recently had my first sour deal on the boards here and it kinda bothered me the way the seller handled it. someone suggested i post about it in this forum so that i could air my grievance and get it off my mind.

 

someone was selling some chew comics and they looked pretty good in the pictures so i wrote the seller to ask whether or not they would grade 9.8 (i explained i already had copies that were a shade under 9.8 and i was only looking to buy if i knew i could send them in and get a 9.8).

 

this was the reply i got back:

"I would expect Chew 18 and both copies of Chew 17 to make the grade at a 9.8 as they all have sharp corners, perfect colors, and no defects. CGC has been known to be somewhat unpredicatable with the grading but there is no reason for a 9.6 on these that I can see,"

 

so i made a deal and bought one of each issue. as far as the shipping was concerned this is what i said:

"definately want the books shipped in a box. no need for insurance or the like. which ever is cheaper between priority or flat rate (medium2 box) works for me. let me know what the shipping will be and your paypal info and we are on our way. i know the flat rate is about $12."

 

when the books arrived i found both books were in the same plastic bag and they were in a box but were poorly packed.

 

so i wrote the seller the following:

"got the books today and i have to say i am very disappointed. hate to see both comics shipped in the same bag. on top of that the 17 had 2 stress marks on he front cover one of which broke color slightly. the 18 front was fine but the back cover the upper left corner had a little bend and it had several stress marks on the spine. i have to say that these copies were both worse than the copies i have already by a long shot and are not the definate the defect free copies they were claimed to be"

 

this was the reply i got back:

"I am sorry to hear that you are not happy with the books you received. This is all quite a surprise to me. I looked very carefully at all three comics (including the copy of 17 you didn't take) and I don't remember seeing any of the problems you mentioned. I just looked at the pictures I have and still don't see it. When I told you the books looked great I meant every word. With that being said, no one is perfect and I never claimed to be a grading expert. I told you the colors were great and they are. I told you the corners are sharp and they are. When I told you there were no flaws it is because I could not see any flaws. You say the flaws are there and I would like you to show them to me so I can see them myself and we can get on the same page.

 

Since you have the books in hand I would appreciate it if you could send me scans or pictures or the damaged areas. Telling me where to look for the damage would also be helpful. Also, when you received and opened the box did it look as though anything could have been damaged in transit?

 

From what you have said, receiving both books in the same bag would seem to be the least of your troubles but I would like to hear why this is a problem, DSCB and other vendors have sent me books bagged together and it never bothered me. You wanted to keep the shipping costs under control so I did what I could to keep the weight at 15.5 ounces."

 

i replied with the following:

"i never said pack it to save money. i only said to ship it in whichever way was cheaper between priority and flat rate. in fact the only price i mentioned was $12 for flat rate shipping. the last thing i would want would be damage in shipping. needless to say the outside box was fine, but am still puzzled as to why would you ship 2 books in one bag. for $18 bucks the least would be a bag and board for each taped together with the boards on the outside. sandwich that between 2 pieces of hard cardboard then popcorn inside a box."

 

we exchanged a couple of messages and i sent him scans of the defects of the books. one comment that really bothered me was this one from the seller:

 

"My biggest regret at this point isn’t that I might have missed a minor flaw or two but that I even attempted to tell you whether or not these books were 9.8 and not 9.6. I supplied pictures instead of grades in this thread to avoid making this type of promise in the first place. This is only my second sales thread and this rookie made a rookie mistake.

 

With that being said I still think you got a pretty good deal on these books. There are NM 9.4 copies of these books on ebay going for more than you paid for these books. With pressing you might still have a shot at 9.8 on one or both books. This has been a learning experience for me and I am sorry that things didn’t work out the way you had expected. While I am no longer promising 9.8s on raw books I would like to continue to do business with you in the future and am open to suggestions as to how I can make it up to you."

 

now at this point i knew that the seller had no intention of taking the books back or he would have said so.

 

i wrote him back:

whether or not i got a good deal on there books or what these books go for on ebay is incidental, i was very specific of what i was looking for here. i was looking for books that would grade 9.8 for my registry set. i was very clear that i had copies of these books that would grade highly at cgc but just might not make the 9.8 grade i was looking for. you then told me that you had books that should grade 9.8 and had no defects that would take away from them making that grade, it seems as if you were more interested in making the sale than making the customer happy and even now are more concerned with the sale and future sales than doing that now (...i would like to continue to do business with you in the future,,,,,,). i am not going to tell you what to do and at this point i guess i am stuck

 

after not getting any reply, i offered this to him as a suggestion on how he could make it up

"i was trying to think about how you could make it up to me and the first thought was to take them back. but the headache and cost of shipping would net me about $12 by the time i was done paying for shipping. hardly worth the effort.

 

so, here's what i was thinking of. a refund for part of the price. i would say a $9 (half the price) refund would really leave me thinking that you were a real man about handling the situation and you still make money on the books.

 

let me know if that works for you."

 

i then asked the following:

"am surprised that i didnt get a reply from you. you asked if i had a suggestion on how you could make it up to me and i know you were on here as your sales thread was closed. if you don't like my suggestion than i am open to something you might propose. rookie or no rookie, that is not a way to deal with customers in any dealing, and definately no way to pack comics....

if it happened in shipping it was because the books were not properly packed. you will have many other disappointed customers if you pack your books like that."

 

this was the final reply i received from the seller:

The reason I did not reply sooner wasn't as much because I did not like your suggestion as much as it was the way you phrased your request. Your messages to me have been rude and insulting. I understand that you are unhappy but I have had more than enough of your abuse. You received the books pictured in my ad. The books were packed securely in a bag (with backing board) inside a plastic bag, wrapped in newspaper, packaged securely between two thick pieces of cardboard wrapped securely in bubble wrap surrounded by packing peanuts inside a thick cardboard box.You received them in a timely manner. The books you received are worth more than you paid for them. The ads included pictures of the comics with no grade (or promise thereof). When you inquired about the possibility of a 9.8 grade I took the books out of their bags and looked them over. In the lighting I had at that time I didn't see any of the flaws you mentioned after you had received the books. If I missed something it was an honest mistake on my part. When I said I was sorry that I told you the books could grade 9.8 without having taken more care to look them over I meant it. Although I do not believe that you suffered a loss, as a show of good faith I am going to give you a partial refund of $3.00. It is not as much as you asked for but it is the amount I am comfortable with. while I had hopes that this relationship could be repaired, I think it would be best if we did not do business together in the future. You are clearly not happy with me and I will do just fine without any more of your abuse

 

my abuse?? is complaining about not recieving what you expected and then being asked for a way to make it right and offering a suggestion which is refused, abuse??

[Speedy-D]

Someone please summarize!!!

[mschmidt]

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

[skypinkblu]

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Great job,!

 

Now we just need to know who it is? and whether he/she is related to Kong's media mail shipper...

 

I'm beginning to wonder if I am reading the probation thread from Earth 2;)?

[Speedy-D]

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

I read it. The seller said this: "The books were packed securely in a bag (with backing board) inside a plastic bag, wrapped in newspaper, packaged securely between two thick pieces of cardboard wrapped securely in bubble wrap surrounded by packing peanuts inside a thick cardboard box."

 

As a seller, making a claim that your raw comic is a 9.8 seems like asking for trouble. As a buyer, getting raw 9.8s that you plan to have graded seems like a crapshoot.

[tjanse]

Sorry to hear your loss i know it wasnt about the money at all. I think more of how it was dealt with and just trying creating a positive outcome. Sad to say sometimes things dont always workout on the boards. I have made a mistake or two on the boards and always corrected it.

 

I think its starting to sound like the same guy that kong had to deal with.

 

So who was the boardie?

[Mr.Diggler]

[N/A]

 

someone was selling some chew comics and they looked pretty good in the pictures so i wrote the seller to ask whether or not they would grade 9.8

 

You know better than that. You need only ask.

[medusanyc]

thanks for the summary mschmidt. there was more than just newspaper but it was far from well packed. there was a little of everything but not enough of everything. the seller was more concerned with keeping the weight down that the books packed well.

 

and i have picked up raw 9.8s on the boards here and had them delivered and packed so they arrived as such.

 

either he didn't look them over well or the were knocked around in shipping can be the only explaination.

 

tjanse has it right, that it wasnt so much the money as the way it was handled, the whole she-bang with shipping was only 20 bucks. i will probably spend that much on drinks when i go out tonight.

 

the seller was dr chaos

 

and jeff, i have posted in the WTB section about various chew issues i need in 9.8 to fill some gaps. i will PM you my short list again and then you can let me know if you can help me out.

 

 

[mschmidt]

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

I read it. The seller said this: "The books were packed securely in a bag (with backing board) inside a plastic bag, wrapped in newspaper, packaged securely between two thick pieces of cardboard wrapped securely in bubble wrap surrounded by packing peanuts inside a thick cardboard box."

 

As a seller, making a claim that your raw comic is a 9.8 seems like asking for trouble. As a buyer, getting raw 9.8s that you plan to have graded seems like a crapshoot.

 

Ah, yeah, missed that part :doh:

 

This isn't eBay, though - we have a large selection of board members who can fairly easily pick out raw 9.8s (particularly from modern books), so if a FS thread lists books as being in "NM/M" condition, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that that's what you're actually going to get. Especially when you're paying a premium for common books with the express purpose of having them end up in 9.8 slab :shrug:

[Snake Eyes]

Agreed, and quite simply the seller needs to have the willingness to acknowledge their own limitations (i.e. grading, resto detection, etc.). I know that I have sold some modern books, and I absolutely cannot reliably determine between 9.6 and 9.8's. I had a PM asking me a fairly similar question. My simple response was that I knew the books were NM or higher but could not comment on whether they would hit 9.6 or 9,8 in a slab. The potential buyer passed, but I think it is better to have that and a reputation for being forthright than a quick sale for a few bucks that could degenerate into a mess like this.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Agreed, and quite simply the seller needs to have the willingness to acknowledge their own limitations (i.e. grading, resto detection, etc.). I know that I have sold some modern books, and I absolutely cannot reliably determine between 9.6 and 9.8's. I had a PM asking me a fairly similar question. My simple response was that I knew the books were NM or higher but could not comment on whether they would hit 9.6 or 9,8 in a slab. The potential buyer passed, but I think it is better to have that and a reputation for being forthright than a quick sale for a few bucks that could degenerate into a mess like this.

 

Ditto, agreed. I have only sold a few raw books here, and those were two deals by PM requests. I did my best to suggest the grades, and the defects. I didn't have any follow up issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone viewed the books differently. Those were 9.4 to 9.8 books, moderns.

 

Packing well is a different subject than grading, and customer service is also an entirely different issue.

 

It sounds like that seller failed at least two of those, maybe all three.

[Speedy-D]

Someone please summarize!!!

 

1)

- medusanyc bought some raw Chew books from seller that were described as 9.8s

- seller sends books two-to-a-bag inside a box with no protection apart from some newspaper

- books arrive in less than 9.8 condition

 

2)

- medusanyc contacts seller, explains problems with condition & lack of proper packaging

- seller busts out the "I'm not a professional grader"-spiel with a side of "other people have sent me books packed this way" and, as a parting shot, the "even though the books are not as described, you still got a good deal compared to eBay prices"-non-apology.

 

3)

- medusanyc asks for a partial refund of $9

- seller claims that he's had enough of medusanyc's abuse, counters with a $3 refund and tells him he'd prefer not to deal with him again

 

Did I miss anything?

I read it. The seller said this: "The books were packed securely in a bag (with backing board) inside a plastic bag, wrapped in newspaper, packaged securely between two thick pieces of cardboard wrapped securely in bubble wrap surrounded by packing peanuts inside a thick cardboard box."

 

As a seller, making a claim that your raw comic is a 9.8 seems like asking for trouble. As a buyer, getting raw 9.8s that you plan to have graded seems like a crapshoot.

 

Ah, yeah, missed that part :doh:

 

This isn't eBay, though - we have a large selection of board members who can fairly easily pick out raw 9.8s (particularly from modern books), so if a FS thread lists books as being in "NM/M" condition, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that that's what you're actually going to get. Especially when you're paying a premium for common books with the express purpose of having them end up in 9.8 slab :shrug:

Could be. As I've noted elsewhere, I'm not exactly a 9.8 chaser. Most of the tales I hear are that in the 9.6-9.8 stratosphere, there's sometimes no telling what you'll get. But as you say, if the seller says the comics will be 9.8s, in the thread or in a PM, and there are obvious flaws that speak to the contrary, the seller is in the wrong and should offer a full refund.

 

I'd be nervous about shipping pristine comics that I've promised will grade at 9.8. Anything can happen in the mails. :shrug:

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Yes, the books have to be packed very tightly and protected well on all sides. The seller should not be able to say that defects occurred in shipping.

 

I ship with two Priority Mail boxes, and lots of bubble wrap and peanuts. The books don't move around inside when I pack them. I cringe at the way the PO handles parcels, that's why I pack things so well.

 

Watch those flat rate boxes and "envelopes", they cost much more than normal Priority Mail boxes etc. Be sure that you can get those before heading to the PO, many offices only carry the flat rate stuff now.

[8milemax]

Yes, the books have to be packed very tightly and protected well on all sides. The seller should not be able to say that defects occurred in shipping.

 

I ship with two Priority Mail boxes, and lots of bubble wrap and peanuts. The books don't move around inside when I pack them. I cringe at the way the PO handles parcels, that's why I pack things so well.

 

Watch those flat rate boxes and "envelopes", they cost much more than normal Priority Mail boxes etc. Be sure that you can get those before heading to the PO, many offices only carry the flat rate stuff now.

 

 

you are such a lying tool! First off, Flat rate boxes would be cheaper if you are mailing slabs real far, mailing slabs from Michigan to California is cheaper than by weight. Second, the post office HAS to carry both sets of boxes not just flat rate. Don't lie to make yourself look good. Why do you have to insult the P.O? Yes I work for the P.O and they have treated me great and I treat everyones parcels as I would want mine to be treated I do care about my job and my customers, yes there are bad apples in the P.O just like another job.

[mschmidt]

Am I insulting the PO if I say that mine doesn't carry the 1092 or 1095 priority boxes as well?

[8milemax]

Am I insulting the PO if I say that mine doesn't carry the 1092 or 1095 priority boxes as well?

They should, it policy to carry the 1092 not the 1095, complain to the 1 800 number.

[skypinkblu]

Am I insulting the PO if I say that mine doesn't carry the 1092 or 1095 priority boxes as well?

They should, it policy to carry the 1092 not the 1095, complain to the 1 800 number.

 

They don't have them in the post office I use here, or the one I used when I was in another State. I was told they are encouraging the use of the flat rate boxes. I just order them on line, it's actually easier than picking them up in person..BTW, I have nothing against the PO, my friend's husband works there.

Edited June 4, 2012 by skypinkblu

[bryan91]

Am I insulting the PO if I say that mine doesn't carry the 1092 or 1095 priority boxes as well?

They should, it policy to carry the 1092 not the 1095, complain to the 1 800 number.

 

My PO does not carry these either. Just the flat rate ones. Every time I bring in a 1095 the guy always says they won't send them anything but the flat rate boxes.