PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[RockMyAmadeus]

The PL is there to protect ourselves and each other from (or when) doing business with people who have had a hard time, for whatever reason, completing a transaction successfully in the past. It's got nothing to do with going after folks who are engaging in other sorts of malfeasance. If you just robbed a bank, that won't get you on the PL. If you just took a boardie's money and didn't get her her comics, that will get you on the list.

 

Seems reasonable to me. :shrug:

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics

 

Very quick catch on the eyeroll edit, Rocky.

 

[cloudofwit]

The PL is there to protect ourselves and each other from (or when) doing business with people who have had a hard time, for whatever reason, completing a transaction successfully in the past. It's got nothing to do with going after folks who are engaging in other sorts of malfeasance. If you just robbed a bank, that won't get you on the PL. If you just took a boardie's money and didn't get her her comics, that will get you on the list.

 

Seems reasonable to me. :shrug:

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics

 

Very quick catch on the eyeroll edit, Rocky.

 

 

Some folks don't give a . I do.

[bababooey]

Personal payments for merchandise is against Paypal policy.

 

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase

 

"Personal Payment" means amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill.

 

 

 

(emphasis obviously added.)

 

Despite the fact that it has been discussed to death on these boards, despite the fact that Paypal makes it very clear when you actually send money, despite the fact that this board has a stated policy saying sellers cannot ask for personal payments for merchandise, people STILL insist on doing it.

 

And PLEASE don't try to play word games and say "well, the seller can't ask, but the buyer can offer!" If you do...you're just ASKING for someone to rip you off.

 

And what buyers trying to "help" sellers don't understand is that sending personal for merchandise makes a seller risk his/her ability to receive personal payments for what they are actually FOR.

 

I CANNOT tell you how many times I've wanted to send CAWs and other "official witness like types" money for this or that sig opportunity, only to find out that they FOOLISHLY took personal payments for merchandise, and LOST the ability....and now I can't send them money for signing fees, CGC grading fees, and all sorts of stuff which ISN'T FOR THEM, without them paying fees. Then they don't WANT to pay fees (and rightly so), and so *I* have to either cover the fees, or send them the money some other more inconvenient way.

 

All of which could have been avoided had they just lived by the damn rules in the first place.

 

And buyers who send personal....? Do you just not understand that it's the same thing as sending CASH? Would you send CASH to a total stranger? But yet you have the audacity to complain about it when a seller walks off, or looks like they might walk off, with your money....? You have NO recourse whatsoever if you send personal payment for merchandise, and the seller just walks off with your money. NONE. And you will be laughed at by Paypal, when they say "excuse me...but why did you send a PERSONAL payment for merchandise to someone you don't know?"

 

 

I'm sure you're a nice guy, Kong...but this is a lesson you needed to learn, and maybe this will prevent you from making an even worse mistake like this in the future, and perhaps keep other members from making the same mistake. You should be grateful that it wasn't worse.

 

A grown person, with knowledge of how the internet works, sending the equivalent of CASH to someone you don't know, despite all sorts of measures to prevent just such a thing from happening? And you're offended enough to call someone a "jack hole" because they posted an ANONYMOUS not aimed directly at you ...? You should be offended at yourself and your own foolishness instead (and it looks like you are. Kudos!)

 

Finally...Paypal provides a SERVICE. They have a LEGAL RIGHT to charge for that service. Just because there is a "way around" paying for that service does NOT mean that, in full contravention of their terms, it's ok to STEAL from them by not paying the fee they charge for that service.

 

If you don't like Paypal's fees: DON'T USE THEIR SERVICE.

 

Please...explain to me why we have a "Probation List" to go after "naughty boardies", but COMPLETELY turn a blind eye to ACTUAL THEFT from Paypal?

 

Right. Paypal's a big, horrid corporation, their fees aren't "fair", and they "deserve" whatever people can get away with.

 

Hypocrisy at it's FINEST.

I guess it's just money moving if the CAW isn't charging you anything over and above what could be considered "moving money" for their out of pocket costs but other than that, services should attract the fee. A CAW should probably itemize their out of pocket separate from their service fees if wanting to avoid paypal fees on the bulk of the payment but I think it's still a stretch to call it a non-commercial transaction

I don't disagree with the stance on personal paypal abuse but your example of an "eligible" transaction is flawed.

Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you "request money" using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money (initiated from the "Personal" tab of the "Send Money" flow or “Send Money” through PayPal mobile) to and receiving money into your PayPal account from friends and family without making a purchase, (ie the payment is not for goods or services).

[RockMyAmadeus]

Personal payments for merchandise is against Paypal policy.

 

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase

 

"Personal Payment" means amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill.

 

 

 

(emphasis obviously added.)

 

Despite the fact that it has been discussed to death on these boards, despite the fact that Paypal makes it very clear when you actually send money, despite the fact that this board has a stated policy saying sellers cannot ask for personal payments for merchandise, people STILL insist on doing it.

 

And PLEASE don't try to play word games and say "well, the seller can't ask, but the buyer can offer!" If you do...you're just ASKING for someone to rip you off.

 

And what buyers trying to "help" sellers don't understand is that sending personal for merchandise makes a seller risk his/her ability to receive personal payments for what they are actually FOR.

 

I CANNOT tell you how many times I've wanted to send CAWs and other "official witness like types" money for this or that sig opportunity, only to find out that they FOOLISHLY took personal payments for merchandise, and LOST the ability....and now I can't send them money for signing fees, CGC grading fees, and all sorts of stuff which ISN'T FOR THEM, without them paying fees. Then they don't WANT to pay fees (and rightly so), and so *I* have to either cover the fees, or send them the money some other more inconvenient way.

 

All of which could have been avoided had they just lived by the damn rules in the first place.

 

And buyers who send personal....? Do you just not understand that it's the same thing as sending CASH? Would you send CASH to a total stranger? But yet you have the audacity to complain about it when a seller walks off, or looks like they might walk off, with your money....? You have NO recourse whatsoever if you send personal payment for merchandise, and the seller just walks off with your money. NONE. And you will be laughed at by Paypal, when they say "excuse me...but why did you send a PERSONAL payment for merchandise to someone you don't know?"

 

 

I'm sure you're a nice guy, Kong...but this is a lesson you needed to learn, and maybe this will prevent you from making an even worse mistake like this in the future, and perhaps keep other members from making the same mistake. You should be grateful that it wasn't worse.

 

A grown person, with knowledge of how the internet works, sending the equivalent of CASH to someone you don't know, despite all sorts of measures to prevent just such a thing from happening? And you're offended enough to call someone a "jack hole" because they posted an ANONYMOUS not aimed directly at you ...? You should be offended at yourself and your own foolishness instead (and it looks like you are. Kudos!)

 

Finally...Paypal provides a SERVICE. They have a LEGAL RIGHT to charge for that service. Just because there is a "way around" paying for that service does NOT mean that, in full contravention of their terms, it's ok to STEAL from them by not paying the fee they charge for that service.

 

If you don't like Paypal's fees: DON'T USE THEIR SERVICE.

 

Please...explain to me why we have a "Probation List" to go after "naughty boardies", but COMPLETELY turn a blind eye to ACTUAL THEFT from Paypal?

 

Right. Paypal's a big, horrid corporation, their fees aren't "fair", and they "deserve" whatever people can get away with.

 

Hypocrisy at it's FINEST.

 

 

----> "I guess it's just money moving if the CAW isn't charging you anything over and above what could be considered "moving money" for their out of pocket costs" <-----

 

(thumbs u

 

but other than that, services should attract the fee.

 

(thumbs u

 

A CAW should probably itemize their out of pocket separate from their service fees if wanting to avoid paypal fees on the bulk of the payment but I think it's still a stretch to call it a non-commercial transaction

I don't disagree with the stance on personal paypal abuse but your example of an "eligible" transaction is flawed.

 

 

 

 

Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you "request money" using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money (initiated from the "Personal" tab of the "Send Money" flow or Send Money through PayPal mobile) to and receiving money into your PayPal account from friends and family without making a purchase, (ie the payment is not for goods or services).

 

 

Stan Lee is charging $100 for his sig, so could you Paypal me the money for that? Personal, as it's not for me, but for him.

 

(thumbs u

 

My fee for getting Stan Lee's sig is $35. You can Paypal me that money (but don't send personal, because you are buying MY service.)

 

(thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

The PL is there to protect ourselves and each other from (or when) doing business with people who have had a hard time, for whatever reason, completing a transaction successfully in the past. It's got nothing to do with going after folks who are engaging in other sorts of malfeasance. If you just robbed a bank, that won't get you on the PL. If you just took a boardie's money and didn't get her her comics, that will get you on the list.

 

Seems reasonable to me. :shrug:

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics

Why is that hypocritical?

[RockMyAmadeus]

The PL is there to protect ourselves and each other from (or when) doing business with people who have had a hard time, for whatever reason, completing a transaction successfully in the past. It's got nothing to do with going after folks who are engaging in other sorts of malfeasance. If you just robbed a bank, that won't get you on the PL. If you just took a boardie's money and didn't get her her comics, that will get you on the list.

 

Seems reasonable to me. :shrug:

 

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics

Why is that hypocritical?

 

[medusanyc]

CAWs ?

[bababooey]

CAWs ?

[medusanyc]

anything else ?

 

[skypinkblu]

Before Paypal we used checks or MO's, no fees.

[bababooey]

anything else ?

Sorry, I think it stands for Certified (Authorized or Autograph) Witness

It's the people authorized by CGC to witness signatures so that they can get yellow labels.

 

 

[bababooey]

Before Paypal we used checks or MO's, no fees.

 

[Aces]

Before Paypal we used checks or MO's, no fees.

Well it's like a $1 fee for the MO and stamp. Big Woop.

[skypinkblu]

Before Paypal we used checks or MO's, no fees.

Well it's like a $1 fee for the MO and stamp. Big Woop.

 

Send a check from your computer, the bank pays for the stamp;)

[KONG]

Before PayPal I used to get a shjt-ton of cash in the mail every Tuesday. I miss that.

[gaz973]

I'm done selling to the UK. The only time I was ripped off on this board was by a UK boardie

 

I just said that I was ripped off before (a few months ago) from a UK boardie

 

Can you please name the UK boardie who ripped you off and in what way you were ripped off?

 

Yeah I would quite like to know this too?

 

I looked through the archives and the boardmember he's referring to was blahblahblah2007 (who I've never heard of before) who didn't ship an item that was purchased.

[chrisco37]

Buyer asks if two of my books are 9.8s. Now keep in mind that these are all new unread books. I take them out of the bags and boards, look them over, note sharp corners, no spine ticks, and bright colors (they really are nice to look at). Instead of saying there are no flaws that I can see I said there were no flaws (I apologized for this and gave the buyer a partial refund at his reqest).

 

I told the buyer that the books look as good as the pictures. I also went on to state that I did not see why they could not make a 9.8 with the proviso that CGC can be unpredictable.

 

While I did miss a slight corner crease (did not break color) on the back of one book, the flaw was clearly visible in the pictures that I provided. The buyer either missed this flaw as well or never bothered to look at the pictures before making the purchase.

 

When the buyer reported that he was not satisfied with quality of the books received I asked him to provide pictures of the flaws he reported. Aside from the slight corner crease, his pictures of that book did not reveal spine ticks or the other flaws reported.

 

The pictures he provided of the other book did not match the pictures I took of the book before it was sent (he has already informed me that he had a lesser copy). Although I firmly believed that the buyer switched books I apologized to him and asked what I could do to make it up to him.

If you're assigning grades to books, the buyer should have every reason to believe that the books will actually be in that particular condition - it's not his responsibility to blow up your photos to try to find some miniscule, barely-visible defect. Photos & scans lie - they can greatly magnify defects, just like they can easily hide them.

 

If you aren't sure of your own grading skills, you should have told the buyer that the books were NM or better, but you couldn't guarantee anything above that. You would probably have lost the sale seeing that he was specifically looking for 9.8 copies, but, on the other hand, you wouldn't be in the middle of this mess either.

Saying that the buyer switched books is a pretty serious accusation around here - I would suggest that you show evidence to prove this :thumbsup:

 

 

5. The buyer was insulting and dismissive in his comments. Although I went along with it at the time I feel his request for 9.8s on raw books priced below ebay was unreasonable. Despite the assurance I gave him he still pushed for lower prices than those in my ad. Given the excessiveness of his complaints and the lack of evidence I now feel that his agenda was to use the partial refund request to hammer me down further on what was already a more than fair deal to him.

You're the one that set the prices on these books. If you had such a problem selling these books at below ebay prices, you should have priced them differently or simply refused the buyer's offer.

 

This is the big thing here.

 

Never, ever call raw books anything better than this unless you're 1000% sure. I think I'm a pretty good grader. Anytime I've ever listed raw books (mostly moderns) that I thought were 9.6/9.8 level, I have listed them as "NM or better" (I may have listed one or two as NM+ or better). I've rec'd PM's to the tune of "Do you think this is a 9.8?". I respond that it's too hard to call if CGC would give it that. I've lost potential sales b/c of it, but I saved myself potential issues here.

 

Not worth it on low dollar books.

 

[Green]

Has anyone heard from qualitycomix? I havnt been able to get a hold of brent in months .

[seanfingh]

 

Not me.

[Logan510]

Ditto.