PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Columbia Comics]

This is the first issue I've had since I've joined and I'm seeking the wisdom of those who have been here longer than I.

 

So here's the story in a nutshell:

 

A few weeks ago I ran a WTB thread looking for two specific books. To my surprise, I received a PM from another boardie telling me that they had a raw copy of one of the books in my thread. The initial PM was on 12/5.

 

After some discussion, the individual and I agreed to meet up in Greensboro since they were coming east to visit family and since the book was raw, it would probably be best to inspect it in person. This meeting was to take place on 1/13. However, after further discussion, we had decided to meet in Charlotte at the airport during the layover. The layover was approx. an hour so it would have been a tight squeeze but doable.

 

I agreed to make the trip and asked if there were other books they wanted to move. I got a list and selected seven books that I would be interested in buying. I got the list on 12/28.

 

On 1/8, I sent the list of books I wanted and asked for prices. The member sent back OSPG prices and I countered with a number that I felt was fair for both parties. The seller agreed and accepted my offer and asked if I could bring cash, to which I agreed.

 

On 1/11, I received an email stating that the meeting in Charlotte would be impossible since the layover was only an hour (this was known prior to 1/11). I also was informed that I would receive first crack at the initial book from the WTB thread before it was posted here or other venues AND that the other six books were to be posted here or other venues. In other words, I would have the opportunity to buy the first book but the other six books in the agreement were no longer available.

 

I replied that I understood regarding the layover time but I was still interested in all the books at the agreed upon price. I was happy to get scans and any notation on the books and have them delivered via mail. I would be happy to mail a check as payment.

 

To this email I received no response.

 

On 1/14, I received this:

 

"Here you go! I bought this as a fine and I agree. Overstreet 2012 is $1047. Make me an offer! I won't be back on email until tonite. The rest of the books we were discussing will be sold on the CGC Boards after I get done scanning them. I want to get closer to full retail on them."

 

This morning I informed the individual that I do not wish to purchase the book from them. I feel that they agreed to a deal and then reneged at the last minute since they wanted more money than the original agreement. The reply to this was that the original deal was contingent upon meeting in Greensboro (which was never communicated) and that the individual wants to maximize the sales price (this I understand).

 

They went on to say that the initial book in question was still mine if I made an acceptable offer (been there, done that) but I passed.

 

So my question is....is this event PL worthy? In full disclosure, half of the conversation started here via PM and migrated to email. There were also two/three phone calls.

[revat]

This is the first issue I've had since I've joined and I'm seeking the wisdom of those who have been here longer than I.

 

So here's the story in a nutshell:

 

A few weeks ago I ran a WTB thread looking for two specific books. To my surprise, I received a PM from another boardie telling me that they had a raw copy of one of the books in my thread. The initial PM was on 12/5.

 

After some discussion, the individual and I agreed to meet up in Greensboro since they were coming east to visit family and since the book was raw, it would probably be best to inspect it in person. This meeting was to take place on 1/13. However, after further discussion, we had decided to meet in Charlotte at the airport during the layover. The layover was approx. an hour so it would have been a tight squeeze but doable.

 

I agreed to make the trip and asked if there were other books they wanted to move. I got a list and selected seven books that I would be interested in buying. I got the list on 12/28.

 

On 1/8, I sent the list of books I wanted and asked for prices. The member sent back OSPG prices and I countered with a number that I felt was fair for both parties. The seller agreed and accepted my offer and asked if I could bring cash, to which I agreed.

 

On 1/11, I received an email stating that the meeting in Charlotte would be impossible since the layover was only an hour (this was known prior to 1/11). I also was informed that I would receive first crack at the initial book from the WTB thread before it was posted here or other venues AND that the other six books were to be posted here or other venues. In other words, I would have the opportunity to buy the first book but the other six books in the agreement were no longer available.

 

I replied that I understood regarding the layover time but I was still interested in all the books at the agreed upon price. I was happy to get scans and any notation on the books and have them delivered via mail. I would be happy to mail a check as payment.

 

To this email I received no response.

 

On 1/14, I received this:

 

"Here you go! I bought this as a fine and I agree. Overstreet 2012 is $1047. Make me an offer! I won't be back on email until tonite. The rest of the books we were discussing will be sold on the CGC Boards after I get done scanning them. I want to get closer to full retail on them."

 

This morning I informed the individual that I do not wish to purchase the book from them. I feel that they agreed to a deal and then reneged at the last minute since they wanted more money than the original agreement. The reply to this was that the original deal was contingent upon meeting in Greensboro (which was never communicated) and that the individual wants to maximize the sales price (this I understand).

 

They went on to say that the initial book in question was still mine if I made an acceptable offer (been there, done that) but I passed.

 

So my question is....is this event PL worthy? In full disclosure, half of the conversation started here via PM and migrated to email. There were also two/three phone calls.

 

Its a tough one...

[KONG]

Yes

[Cascaders27]

On 1/14, I received this:

 

"Here you go! I bought this as a fine and I agree. Overstreet 2012 is $1047. Make me an offer! I won't be back on email until tonite. The rest of the books we were discussing will be sold on the CGC Boards after I get done scanning them. I want to get closer to full retail on them."

 

 

It sounds to me that as long as you were satisfied with the in hand quality of the books you two had an agreement that you were going to purchase them for an agreed upon price. The above bolded part would suggest that he changed his mind regarding the agreed upon pricing and decided to back out on the deal. I haven't been here longer than you (though neither have the other two people to reply prior to me) but I believe this warrants the PL. The one issue I could see is the complication of them getting off the list. You obviously want to inspect the books prior to spending that kind of money so perhaps he'd have to send them to you and you could return any you weren't satisfied with? I'm not sure how that part would work.

[revat]

On 1/14, I received this:

 

"Here you go! I bought this as a fine and I agree. Overstreet 2012 is $1047. Make me an offer! I won't be back on email until tonite. The rest of the books we were discussing will be sold on the CGC Boards after I get done scanning them. I want to get closer to full retail on them."

 

 

It sounds to me that as long as you were satisfied with the in hand quality of the books you two had an agreement that you were going to purchase them for an agreed upon price. The above bolded part would suggest that he changed his mind regarding the agreed upon pricing and decided to back out on the deal. I haven't been here longer than you (though neither have the other two people to reply prior to me) but I believe this warrants the PL. The one issue I could see is the complication of them getting off the list. You obviously want to inspect the books prior to spending that kind of money so perhaps he'd have to send them to you and you could return any you weren't satisfied with? I'm not sure how that part would work.

 

 

 

Basically, this feels like this to me (S=seller, B=Buyer):

 

S: I saw your WTB, I've got this book.

B: I'll take it pending a scan at this price.

S: I'm ok with that price, I'll get you a scan right away.

 

... time passes... no scan ever comes....

B: Is the scan coming? I can pay right away....

S: No scan is coming sorry, I've decided not to sell at this price.

 

Yes I know he came at you with counter offers laters, but thats a different A-hole issue to me.

 

The reasons for not selling are dbaggish, and the behaviour of the seller isn't great, but I think the deal wasn't 'completed' enough to warrant P-Listing.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Revat

[Columbia Comics]

There's more to it than that...it's not so cut and dry.

[revat]

There's more to it than that...it's not so cut and dry.

 

I agree with that, I don't mean to oversimplify. That's just how this feels to me.

 

It just sounds like the agreement (itself) for the sale wasn't quite consummated without buyer approval over the condition of comics. If he sent you scans and you agreed to the conditions even before the agreement of the meeting, my view would change dramatically.

 

And since that didn't occur (even though it was the fault of the seller), no deal was struck. Therefore no actionable PL item, at least in my view.

 

I'd love to have the person outed so I won't deal with them. But I guess that depends on what the point of the PL list is.

 

Punishment for shady activities?

An aid to help enforce deals that have been made?

[Columbia Comics]

The individual in question sent me a MAC equivalent text file with a long list of books and their respective grades.

 

I had seen several of their FS threads and based on prior information, believed the individual is a very accurate grader and, if anything, graded half a point to a full point lower than CGC would. Therefore, obtaining a scan to determine if the grade reported was within reason was not a determining factor in the deal.

 

Obviously seeing the books in person would remove all doubts (as much as one can be sure of a grade) but in my opinion, the transaction was not contingent upon this occuring, especially when I was willing to make arrangements to accept delivery via mail.

 

 

[Transplant]

So what happens if you disagreed with the stated grades?

[Columbia Comics]

So what happens if you disagreed with the stated grades?

 

Honestly I have no idea. It never got that far. When I asked if the books could be mailed, I was met with stone cold silence. Not a single word acknowledging that request.

[Shaven Kev-migration]

Did they list them here yet?

[Columbia Comics]

Did they list them here yet?

 

A select few...yes

[silverweb]

So what happens if you disagreed with the stated grades?

 

I think that boardie to boardie then some kind of other solution is reached through negotiation. For example, the centerfold is discovered to be detached (which the seller did not notice).

 

 

In CC's example,

"The seller agreed and accepted my offer and asked if I could bring cash, to which I agreed." To abruptly ask for more money is bad form and in my opinion, worthy of the Probation List.

 

[Jeffreykli]

To me, CC's situation doesn't warrant inclusion on the Probation List.

 

I think there were still too many variables, even if the meeting took place, before a deal was struck. They could have disagreed on the grade, or quibbled about price.

 

Having said all that, I think the seller didn't really negotiate in good faith, and should have upheld their end of the deal, if an in-person meeting wasn't feasible. So, not a good seller, but not Probation List worthy.

[crassus]

So what happens if you disagreed with the stated grades?

 

Respectfully, I do not think that the accuracy of the advertised grades is relevant to the question of whether or not a deal had been reached, anymore than it would be if it had been done by posting in a thread here on the Boards.

 

It is at the very least doubtful in theory and quite possibly dangerous in practice to allow that the contingent fact of exchanging books and money in person changes in any fundamental way the obligations of either party.

 

IMHO this is PL worthy.

[Columbia Comics]

I think there were still too many variables, even if the meeting took place, before a deal was struck. They could have disagreed on the grade, or quibbled about price.

 

While you may be ultimately right about the situation not being PL worthy, please keep in mind all the known variables were openly discussed and agreed upon. Price was agreed upon. Grading was agreed upon sight unseen (we're talking VG or less on most of these books). The seller has a track record of accurate grading, in my opinion.

 

Only an unforeseen variable (like silverweb's) would have thrown a wrench in the deal but not scuttled the deal.

[PovertyRow]

To me, CC's situation doesn't warrant inclusion on the Probation List.

 

I think there were still too many variables, even if the meeting took place, before a deal was struck. They could have disagreed on the grade, or quibbled about price.

 

Having said all that, I think the seller didn't really negotiate in good faith, and should have upheld their end of the deal, if an in-person meeting wasn't feasible. So, not a good seller, but not Probation List worthy.

 

I agree with this. Too open-ended to say a solid deal had been made. A solid plan for a deal, yes, but not a solid deal.

 

While I'm sure CC is already doing this, the best recourse is to never buy or sell from/to this person.

[comix4fun]

Two sticky parts of the issue.

 

1)The agreement to meet in person and pay cash. If you take out the cash exchange and take it to check or paypal I am not sure it's still so solid.

 

2) You mention to the seller that you don't want the book and don't want to do business with him. What's his avenue for egress from the list or to make this up to you?

[Dr. Love]

I haven't weighed in on this thread before, but as this one seems to be swaying...imho of course, this is as cut and dried as can be. Terms were agreed upon. btw Columbia was that agreement on the part of the seller in writing or verbal? If verbal, it leaves a hole one can drive a truck through. If in writing, can you provide the quote? The caveats of agreement on grading and price are always present until books are in the hand. In reality, or my reality I guess, deals are always contingent - what the buyer's got locked up in no uncertain terms is right of first refusal at that price. What the seller's got locked up is the buyer's obligation to perform up to the point of inspection.

 

I think it's important this be decided on soon, as "enforcing" specific performance on the books up for sale disappears once someone else purchases them. After that, only a public apology is available as a practical remuneration. Which could lead to "Gee I'm sorry you misconstrued our conversation", and the whole conundrum again of how does one get off the list.

 

Andy

[Columbia Comics]

2) You mention to the seller that you don't want the book and don't want to do business with him. What's his avenue for egress from the list or to make this up to you?

 

An apology would be sufficient. I will continue to not do business with this individual.

 

 

btw Columbia was that agreement on the part of the seller in writing or verbal? If verbal, it leaves a hole one can drive a truck through. If in writing, can you provide the quote?

 

Everything is contained in either a PM or emails I have. Everything is 100% in writing. I don't delete emails.