Flipping, a mortal sin?

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is a marked difference between willingness to PAY GPA because you can grade relatively close to CGC, and someone QUOTING GPA as a seller.

[RockMyAmadeus]

As for flipping, it really comes down to a question of class.

 

If you really want to buy something as a collector, and that's your reasoning, it is a matter of class to not be deceptive about that.

 

If you think someone is selling something for much below market price, it's a matter of class to not then turn around and immediately relist it in the same place for a higher price.

 

Is it wrong? No. Is it illegal, or unethical, or immoral? Well, yes, if you lie about your reasons for wanting it to secure a better price just tp profit, then yes.

 

Otherwise, no.

 

It's just a matter of class.

[Calamerica]

I read this entire Thread before deciding to put my here:

 

The words I saw several times in this Thread: deception and dishonesty.

 

This is the hobby we have chosen to partake in, no one twisted our arms and wallets to pursue our comic book endeavours.

 

This is part of the hobby that "comes with the territory". Just be aware that many comic book "hobbyists" talk the talk and walk the walk with their pocketbooks in the FRONT of their minds and intents. Some spew forth the "spin" on their outwardly appearances and spoken motives, but sooner or later the true motive of personal financial gain will be spotted for the world to see.

 

CAL

[MCMiles]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I agree with this.

 

Agree all you like. See what you think when you try to sell that book down the road.

 

Valuing your grade as much as CGC??? Paying GPA? This is a fine recipe for losing money.

Well, if you can't grade, then don't do it. If you think the seller can't grade, don't do it.

I guess, I better stop too, before I lose my azz .

[g-man]

see most of the time i am looking to flip a book for a few $ if i can get it at a good price. otherwise i just pass. i will send an offer or two and see if i can haggle the price a bit but if the seller wants his full price and it is a high one, then he can keep it. if i can get him to a price that i can work a decent margin on the book, then i make the deal....i never say " i need it for my collection" or some other nonsense. Plus it helps that people know me on these boards....and knowing is half the battle.

[ArAich]

Profits and Capitalism...

 

of course...Dianne Sawyer might feel a little differantly...

[Shootydog]

If you use every trick in the book to get some guy to reduce the price of a book and then you turn around and sell it for twice what you paid you are an individual_without_enough_empathy. A shifty greaseball who will quickly garner a reputation for this kind of play.

 

If you paid a fair price using fair practices and then find a way to turn a profit I see no problem.

 

We are a capitalist society after all. Its all in how you conduct yourself.

[ArAich]

We are a capitalist society after all. Its all in how you conduct yourself.

 

 

Agreed...ethics are very important... (thumbs u

[blazingbob]

Spoken like the dealer you are " if i can get him to a price that i can work a decent margin on the book, then i make the deal".

 

If this isn't a dealer talking than nothing in this thread is.

 

Until a book is in the holder it's frankly subjective, right? Isn't that the canned response from a lot of people. Grading is subjective. Doesn't matter how good you grade, what you tell me when selling the book. Guarantee the grade or not. It's our grading by committee at the table versus CGC's. Assuming you know CGC's Grading flavor of the month you are either spot on or might be off a grade.

 

As I was told I am not in business to make you money. If you are a "crack out" type of guy don't expect me to give big discounts. The transaction is going to be strictly dollars and cents since if I didn't have the material you could crack out I doubt you'd be at my table. I don't expect loyalty from somebody who is only looking at the money side of this, they go where the supply is.

 

More and more of you are just reinforcing my statement that almost all collectors are now dealers. It's more about the money than the books. And all the threads about prices paid for obviously pressed books or the "9.8 that's still in the 9.6 holder" just makes more of you run around trying to find the book you can make a ton of money on.

 

Onside grading just adds to the carnival. The emotions of pure glee, frustration, anger, high fiving and excitement it brings to a room reinforces the casino mentality it represents.

 

 

[Sal]

 

More and more of you are just reinforcing my statement that almost all collectors are now dealers. It's more about the money than the books. And all the threads about prices paid for obviously pressed books or the "9.8 that's still in the 9.6 holder" just makes more of you run around trying to find the book you can make a ton of money on.

 

 

While this is true for some - certainly not me, as the last four sales I've made were all through pm and all at or around the same price I paid - I would venture that most people doing a lot of buying for the purposes of selling are doing so to fund their "keeper" collections.

 

If I can recognise a great deal on a book and then resell it to free up cash to buy Doom Patrols, I am going to do that. And doing so doesn't make me a "dealer"

[Mr. Zipper]

More and more of you are just reinforcing my statement that almost all collectors are now dealers. It's more about the money than the books. And all the threads about prices paid for obviously pressed books or the "9.8 that's still in the 9.6 holder" just makes more of you run around trying to find the book you can make a ton of money on.

 

Onside grading just adds to the carnival. The emotions of pure glee, frustration, anger, high fiving and excitement it brings to a room reinforces the casino mentality it represents.

 

 

Not quite everyone is a dealer yet, but that seems to be the natural evolution of things.

 

The advent of the online marketplace removed all barriers of entry and essentially gave collectors an alternate avenue to sell the books they no longer wanted.

 

We are now in the next step in the evolution... collectors don't only have an easy way to sell the books they no longer want, but they can also easily buy for the sole purpose of resale [most often to fund their own collecting.]

 

In some ways this benefits collectors and full time dealers alike -- collectors can generate more cash to spend with [full time] dealers like Blazing Bob. The downside is that true "collector-to-collector" deals have almost gone the way of the Dodo. Why "leave money on the table" by giving another collector a friendly price when you could maximize potential by cracking, pressing and putting on Clink?

[VintageComics]

 

More and more of you are just reinforcing my statement that almost all collectors are now dealers. It's more about the money than the books. And all the threads about prices paid for obviously pressed books or the "9.8 that's still in the 9.6 holder" just makes more of you run around trying to find the book you can make a ton of money on.

 

 

While this is true for some - certainly not me, as the last four sales I've made were all through pm and all at or around the same price I paid - I would venture that most people doing a lot of buying for the purposes of selling are doing so to fund their "keeper" collections.

 

If I can recognise a great deal on a book and then resell it to free up cash to buy Doom Patrols, I am going to do that. And doing so doesn't make me a "dealer"

 

I still can't get over the fact that you collect Doom Patrol.

 

[seanfingh]

It's simple.

 

If you didn't use a sob story about needing it for your collection or some BS to negotiate a better deal, then do what you want with it.

 

Pay for the books and have them in hand before attempting to flip them.

 

Bingo! (or +1, or whatever the kids are doing these days . . .)

[Sal]

 

More and more of you are just reinforcing my statement that almost all collectors are now dealers. It's more about the money than the books. And all the threads about prices paid for obviously pressed books or the "9.8 that's still in the 9.6 holder" just makes more of you run around trying to find the book you can make a ton of money on.

 

 

While this is true for some - certainly not me, as the last four sales I've made were all through pm and all at or around the same price I paid - I would venture that most people doing a lot of buying for the purposes of selling are doing so to fund their "keeper" collections.

 

If I can recognise a great deal on a book and then resell it to free up cash to buy Doom Patrols, I am going to do that. And doing so doesn't make me a "dealer"

 

I still can't get over the fact that you collect Doom Patrol.

 

 

We each have our crosses to bear

[blazingbob]

If you are recognizing a "great deal" you are evaluating the profit potential to be made. Why not leave it on the wall display for the "collector". Buying that book to sell for a profit makes you a dealer. When you go to sell that book you are the dealer, the buyer is the customer. You state a return policy if not satisfied with the transaction you sound like a dealer to me. What you do with the profit is your choice. Selling books you no longer want is not the same as what you posted.

 

I come to the table, the person selling knows I'm a dealer. You are coming to the table as a collector, however if a great deal is on the wall you buy it even though you don't want it. What's the difference? I can rationalize everything in my favor if I give it enough spin.

 

 

[Inhuman Fiend]

There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

Couldn't agree more. However, I guess I can understand that if somebody gave you a fantastic deal "as a friend" because you needed a particular book to complete a run or something and then you turned around and flipped it, the original seller might not appreciate it since he may have sold it lower than market value as a favor. But I'm sure those occasions are very few and far between...

[seanfingh]

If you are recognizing a "great deal" you are evaluating the profit potential to be made. Why not leave it on the wall display for the "collector". Buying that book to sell for a profit makes you a dealer. What you do with the profit is your choice.

 

I come to the table, the person selling knows I'm a dealer. You are coming to the table as a collector, however if a great deal is on the wall you buy it even though you don't want it. What's the difference? I can rationalize everything in my favor if I give it enough spin.

 

 

Bob,

 

I don't know you very well, although we have talked at cons a couple of times. I never have been able to figure out where this whole collector/dealer thing goes to its logical conclusion. But here is where i think the rubber meets the road. If I buy consumer goods or clothing for example, only to sell them at a garage sale later, that does not make me a clothing dealer. If I buy a car, or several cars over several years and sell them prior to purchasing a new car, my opinion is that I am not a car dealer. These are transactions that are occasional and also where I do not have a lot of expertise.

 

What you appear to be talking about is volume and expertise. If you buy and sell comics in volume, which most of us do, and have sufficient expertise to understand the market, you are a dealer. That makes most of here comic dealers, part time, yes, but comic dealers nonetheless. My question to you is, "so what?"

[joeypost]

There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

Couldn't agree more. However, I guess I can understand that if somebody gave you a fantastic deal "as a friend" because you needed a particular book to complete a run or something and then you turned around and flipped it, the seller might not appreciate it. But I'm sure those occasions are very few and far between...

 

IMO I think the original owner or the one selling he book is jealous of the fact he did not get more. If I said I am buying book A to put in the vault, it will be in my collection till I die and turn around and sell it a week later yes, something is wrong there.

 

If I make an offer and the seller accepts without me ever mentioning what i am doing with the book that should be no concern to he/she after the sale is made. Unless I am truly missing something most businesses run on the buy low-sell high profit model. Why should comics be any different.

[g-man]

i think that in the era of CGC the days of a true collector are gone. I mean years ago I had over 10K books but then did shows and such to make a few $$, then over the past several years, cgc comes along and the $2x,3x,4x, 10x guide + prices are realized so how can you hold onto such pricey items when people are willing to pony up the lots o cash for a 9.4 number? My answer, you can't.

[g-man]

...and what a person does with the book once they buy it (Without misleading) is up to them..keep it, flip it, burn it....whatever. And like Bob said and I have haggled with him many times at his table over the years in boston (maybe 25% successfully) he is not out to make us $. I respect that. Same with Teddy, Harley, etc. It's a business.....plain and simple.