Manufactured Gold

[awe4one]

I should state that I am not advocating any efforts to harm CGC's financial revenues. I don't see any reason why the ethical principles and ideals we so cherish and desire for our community cannot be one and the same with the interests of CGC.

 

This is all well and good but it's become abundantly clear CGC will not make these changes until it affects the bottomline. They've heard all the talk for over 4 years and still they continue changing the rules to boost their bottomline.

 

If it takes a major financial hit to affect change within CGC than I say it can't happen soon enough...

 

Jim

[THE_BEYONDER]

I should state that I am not advocating any efforts to harm CGC's financial revenues. I don't see any reason why the ethical principles and ideals we so cherish and desire for our community cannot be one and the same with the interests of CGC.

 

This is all well and good but it's become abundantly clear CGC will not make these changes until it affects the bottomline. They've heard all the talk for over 4 years and still they continue changing the rules to boost their bottomline.

 

If it takes a major financial hit to affect change within CGC than I say it can't happen soon enough...

 

Jim

 

The only ones who are going to take a "major financial hit" are those that put their faith in CGC's product without a clear understanding of what their product really is.

 

Of course...all it takes is one collector/speculator with the time & resources to take them to task for their lack of transparency to bring the house down.

[Foolkiller]

Unless everyone joins together to publicly oppose these actions there is nothing to stop CGC and others from continuing down this path. These message boards, if they even exist six months from now, only reach a narrow audience.

 

Well, it's impossible for me to disagree with this. Something has be done.

[Red Hook]

 

BTW.....I still totally believe that Matt Nelson would disassemble his own kneecap if he thought he could make a few bucks off it. It's quite clear that CGC and Matt have developed a formal business relationship and are helping each other out quite a bit.

 

That's CGC's prerogative, but more collectors need to know what the rules of the game are. The Good Ship Altruism left port several years ago.

[Harvey Dude]

To be very blunt, I am stunned and appalled by CGC's new disclosure. It completely opens the door (hell, actually, it sends an engraved invitation) to disassembled pressing (the NEW way, not the OLD process described by Steve in his post).

 

I agree with you. I am shocked as well. From my optic, CGC is siding with the manipulators of this hobby; which does not bode well for long-term growth. CGC can effect change for the better of the hobby but that does not appear to be the direction they are taking. The primary reason, I bought slabbed books was for the restoration detection but my view of restoration apparently does not mesh with CGC's view.

[Red Hook]

I wonder when Scoop is going to poll collectors and dealers about their take on disassembly as restortion......

[THE_BEYONDER]

Unless everyone joins together to publicly oppose these actions there is nothing to stop CGC and others from continuing down this path. These message boards, if they even exist six months from now, only reach a narrow audience.

 

Well, it's impossible for me to disagree with this. Something has be done.

 

I assume it's only a matter of time before I get my next strike & my 1 week 'vacation'.

 

When that happens, I'll be using that time to work on my handbook....

 

 

Although it may be insignificant in the grand scheme of things...at least I'll know I'm doing what I can to share the information I've gathered over the past 3 years with my fellow collectors.

[Flaming_Telepath]

From my optic, CGC is siding with the manipulators of this hobby; which does not bode well for long-term growth....The reason, I bought slabbed books was for the restoration detection but my view of restoration apparently does not mesh with CGC's view.

 

When did CGC ever side with the collector? Sure, the marketing materials made uplifting claims to do so, but where was any of the evidence?

 

The 'guarantee' was nothing of the sort. The grading guidelines remained amorphous (and obviously extremely malleable) and unpublished. The dealers still got preferential treatment (Mr Schmell's on-site 'box of goodies', anyone?).

 

As for the differing views of what constitutes restoration, this is part of a longer term plan that is/was intended to shift the goal-posts considerably. Remember, from day 1, CGC's business model included restoration/conservation services...many of which I am certain were to be designated 'non-resto'.

 

'Vested interests' and 'industry watchdogs' never seem to go well together in my experience.

[ArAich]

To reiterate what Matt said.

 

Let me reiterate my position: if CGC ever caught a disassembled book, they would put it in a purple holder.

 

For the life of me I can't see why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this...sborock reiterated this position a billion posts ago and I think it is the correct position..

Also...Has anyone yet realized that not all books that have been "dis-assembed" are of high grade caliber...

 

Carry on...gotta go to work...

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

To be very blunt, I am stunned and appalled by CGC's new disclosure. It completely opens the door (hell, actually, it sends an engraved invitation) to disassembled pressing

 

Welcome to the crackpot, conspiracy-theory ridden, "What's their real motivation for speaking out?" crowd.

 

Please collect your post-CGC-Apocalypse Survival Kit and Marnin Rosenberg Bobblehead at the door.

[THE_BEYONDER]

What...no tin-foil hat?

[Ze-man]

To reiterate what Matt said.

 

Let me reiterate my position: if CGC ever caught a disassembled book, they would put it in a purple holder.

 

For the life of me I can't see why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this...sborock reiterated this position a billion posts ago and I think it is the correct position..

Also...Has anyone yet realized that not all books that have been "dis-assembed" are of high grade caliber...

 

Carry on...gotta go to work...

 

In case you missed it, here is what Steve said a billion posts ago.

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Time & time again I've heard collectors/dealers/etc. use the "nothing added & nothing taken away" argument for defining Resto.

 

I guess the latter would define pressing & trimming as restoration, hence the absence of it in CGC's stance.

[ArAich]

To reiterate what Matt said.

 

Let me reiterate my position: if CGC ever caught a disassembled book, they would put it in a purple holder.

 

For the life of me I can't see why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this...sborock reiterated this position a billion posts ago and I think it is the correct position..

Also...Has anyone yet realized that not all books that have been "dis-assembed" are of high grade caliber...

 

Carry on...gotta go to work...

 

In case you missed it, here is what Steve said a billion posts ago.

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

Symantics baby...

[Flaming_Telepath]

To reiterate what Matt said.

 

Let me reiterate my position: if CGC ever caught a disassembled book, they would put it in a purple holder.

 

For the life of me I can't see why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this...sborock reiterated this position a billion posts ago and I think it is the correct position..

Also...Has anyone yet realized that not all books that have been "dis-assembed" are of high grade caliber...

 

Carry on...gotta go to work...

 

In case you missed it, here is what Steve said a billion posts ago.

 

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

Symantics baby...

 

That would be semantics...and it's not, anyway.

 

Matt Nelson says that the simple fact that a book has been disassembled gets it a purple label.

 

The combined ranks of the board (and the vast majority of collectors) have always considered the simple act of disassembly restoration.

 

Steve Borock now says that unless additional work has been undertaken that IS restoration (which these days is a very short list), the simple act of pulling it to pieces and restoring it to its previous state isn't, er, restoration.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think we should abandon the use of the term 'restoration' all together, and focus on the term 'manipulation'.

[ArAich]

Seeing as I am generally a non-conformist I agree with your premise but disagree with your stance against CGC itself...

 

sborock =

When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced

 

We seem to be going around in circles here...I read Steves response differently and it seems we'll just have to agree to dis-agree...

[CentaurMan]

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

Weak, dude.

[Red Hook]

Seeing as I am generally a non-conformist I agree with your premise but disagree with your stance against CGC itself...

 

sborock =

When a book is only disassembled AND the staples are not put back correctly the submitter also takes a big chance of getting a qualified grade for staples replaced

 

We seem to be going around in circles here...I read Steves response differently and it seems we'll just have to agree to dis-agree...

 

Basically what he's saying is....you're allowed to do it...just make sure you do a good job. Like Matt.

[Forbush-Man]

There is no restoration to be found here.

 

Obviously, someone opened the staples, switched the covers back to their original manufactured positions, put the staples back in their original positions, probably pressed the book, and someone, whether it was the one who did the work or someone who bought it, submitted it. As I have stated before, if nothing was added, CGC does not consider it restoration. There was no restoration (glue, reinforcement, color touch, etc) to be found on this book.

 

Couldn't disagree more but, sad as this is, the real problem here is that this train left the station when CGC first arrived. The immediate acceptance of a third party grading company which (1) set a definition for restored comics when the collecting community had for years debated what constituted restoration and, most importantly, (2) never even published their grading criteria for all to see. Without the set bounderies in place they are free to alter the definition whenever convenient (i.e. easy to do, use or get to, handy).