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X-Men2 Splash

Started by clemso,

271 posts in this topic

Nexus

Nexus

Posted
Posted

Now that this has gone from a $150K valuation in July 2009 to $72K ("Reserve Not Met") on ComicConnect tonight, let's recap:

 

-- This was first shopped privately to BSDs at a much higher higher price than $150K (the original price on Romitaman) by the alleged "former owner". Good thing they passed. They didn't get to be BSDs for nothing.

 

-- It was then allegedly sold/traded ("mostly cash" according to the "former owner") to Romitaman who listed it for $150K. Whether or not this actually happened is important, since the "former owner" stood to gain from the eventual sale if it was actually consigned. Which would make his posts about the piece less than objective.

 

-- Romitaman is praised by the "former owner" as "one of the sharpest dealers" who will turn a "HUGE profit" on this piece. I agree with the former (another reason I doubted any deal was done in the first place). The latter was questionable, especially when...

 

-- Romitaman then incrementally lowered the price from $150K to $105K over the course of 14 months on his site. It should be noted that Romitaman has some of the friendliest terms in the hobby (time payments, trades, etc.) and yet, no deal could be struck.

 

(It should also be noted that dealers rarely lower their prices. Most only raise them. Romitaman is not known to lower prices on anything...except on consignment items at the request of consignors. It would seem that this piece would fit that bill.)

 

-- Finally, to all those in this thread who believed the BS hype and said they would have paid $150K for this splash if only they had the money...be thankful you didn't have the money.

 

It's been fun. Now to watch HOLLYWOOD TREASURE for more truthiness.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
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I personally like this page and was surprised it didn't clear the 100K "glass ceiling" that exists for most SA and BA Original art. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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bocaratondefense

bocaratondefense

Posted
Posted
Bottom line it's a nice image but not from the 1st issue which with most collectors nosalgia and importance of issue seems to generally play a larger par than the actual image itself.

 

I still think this page has a better image than the X-men #1 splash, but you are right about it being less important.

 

It will be interesting to see whether this splash is offered again through yet another venue, or whether the owner decides to squirrel it away for a few years.

 

 

 

 

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westform

westform

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Having owned this splash before, (actually got it in trade from Joe Maddelena and then later traded it to Mr. Mankuta) I think what is being overlooked here, is that $72,000 or whatever it sold for is a damn fine number in this or any market. Whatever anyone tried to sell it for in the past is irrelevant, it went for an expected nice price... and a healthy increase over the trade value when I parted with it, granted that was years ago now; I'm thinking that while not a 'home run', all parties are pretty satisfied with the result.

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Mephisto

Mephisto

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Having owned this splash before, (actually got it in trade from Joe Maddelena and then later traded it to Mr. Mankuta) I think what is being overlooked here, is that $72,000 or whatever it sold for is a damn fine number in this or any market. Whatever anyone tried to sell it for in the past is irrelevant, it went for an expected nice price... and a healthy increase over the trade value when I parted with it, granted that was years ago now; I'm thinking that while not a 'home run', all parties are pretty satisfied with the result.

 

I didn't think it sold as reserve wasn't met?

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comix4fun

comix4fun

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Oh, my bad. Didn't follow the auction or the thread too closely obviously. I guess I would say,.... the bidding did well to reach 72k. Good price. ;)

 

 

The bidders must have thought it was one of those Cyber-Monday 1/2 off sales, given where the page started when listed last year. lol

 

 

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Nexus

Nexus

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Oh, my bad. Didn't follow the auction or the thread too closely obviously. I guess I would say,.... the bidding did well to reach 72k. Good price. ;)

 

 

The bidders must have thought it was one of those Cyber-Monday 1/2 off sales, given where the page started when listed last year. lol

 

 

Nyuk, nyuk:P

 

Along those lines...when deciding who to ask for help with OA valuation/appraisals, scroll through this thread and see who was granting six-figure ($100K and up) status on this piece. You might want to consider asking someone else:P

 

 

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glendgold

glendgold

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Oh, my bad. Didn't follow the auction or the thread too closely obviously. I guess I would say,.... the bidding did well to reach 72k. Good price. ;)

 

Respectfully: I disagree. I think that number is totally irrelevant.

 

There's an old game that started a few years ago: keep quoting a ridiculous price for a certain piece of art and eventually, it won't seem so ridiculous.

 

Unfortunately, that got to be too popular a game, and there just isn't enough money out there to match the aspirations of people pretending to sell stuff at certain prices.

 

So now we're at a point where a bid "almost" reaching a certain reserve now fills in for valuation. If we were in a totally transparent marketplace, and we all knew the identity of the bidder, and the bidder threw down with full understanding that his bid might win, and he had to pay up in cash money...then I think I'd respect that bid.

 

Otherwise, it's meaningless. Not even a data point.

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westform

westform

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I don't disagree with that... I was merely backpedaling from my misunderstanding. I am firmly onboard with the crowd who does not buy into unsold sales figures; heck there are some sold sales figures I question. In hindsight perhaps I should have said IF someone were willing to pay 72k for the splash, then I believe that is a very solid number for it. Just because the seller wanted more doesn't negate that.

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Nexus

Nexus

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Are rumors of sale prices any better for price data points? The Comic Connect description for the X-men 2 splash talks about the X-men 1 splash being rumored to have sold for $250,000. It is not clear whether this was for cash/trade or if someone paid $250,000 in cold cash.

 

A pretty blatant example of attempted market manipulation. What I posted in another thread:

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up. Here's the auction description:

 

Hail to the King! Kirby was at the pinnacle of his prowess when he penciled this preposterously perfect splash page oh true believers! This is the first full page splash in the series and in the opinion of the art experts at ComicConnect.com, the best splash image of the original team ever! This was the centerpiece of the Kirby art display at the Hammer Museum as well as a few others. Also of note is the fact that the image of The Angel was used later as part of the cover logos. This splash is as historic and "high end" as you can get! It has stunning eye appeal and is in excellent shape with a creamy white color to the paper. The splash to the first issue is rumored to have been sold for $250,000.00 several years ago, in our opinion, this piece is a far superior full splash page of the team.

 

Set aside the fact that the selling points are verbatim to what the "former owner" said in the "X-Men2 Splash" thread, the bit about the "rumored" $250K is frankly, insulting. Why not just make it a cool mil?

 

For anyone who thinks that the "rumored" details of a transaction mean anything, then let me say that the NEXUS #2 cover sold for a "rumored" $300K. Please value my #1 cover accordingly based on that rumor. Thank you.

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Nexus

Nexus

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Rumors I never believe... but that is not the same as second hand information. If I know the parties involved then I often rely on my information network as opposed to witnessing transactions or seeing hard evidence.

 

I agree. We all hear a lot of the same things, and taking into account the source(s), can try to form as complete a picture as possible.

 

More to the point...in this case, do you believe that the X-MEN #1 splash "sold" for $250K? The description clearly states "sold for $250K", with the implication that it was a cash deal, not cash/trade, nor all-trade (with the always mutually beneficial, inflated values attached).

 

And knowing what you know, do you trust the apparent source of this rumor? I mean the actual seller (who presumably provided the details for the description if not the description entirely) and not the auction house.

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jbud73

jbud73

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Well this thread has, in the end, turned out to be very educational :grin: if only to reinforce a standard rule for all collectibles, comic OA or otherwise, being "Don't Believe the hype." Or at least try to temper its pull on your purse strings.

 

In a perfect world every piece would have long discussions that articulate a piece from multiple angles and trace is ascendancy into the marketplace.

 

Anyway, thanks to Ruben for one of the posts of the year IMO and to Felix and others for trying to demonstrate all the nuances of what may occur with a piece of OA in the marketplace.

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Galactus

Galactus

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Rumors I never believe... but that is not the same as second hand information. If I know the parties involved then I often rely on my information network as opposed to witnessing transactions or seeing hard evidence.

 

I agree. We all hear a lot of the same things, and taking into account the source(s), can try to form as complete a picture as possible.

 

More to the point...in this case, do you believe that the X-MEN #1 splash "sold" for $250K? The description clearly states "sold for $250K", with the implication that it was a cash deal, not cash/trade, nor all-trade (with the always mutually beneficial, inflated values attached).

 

And knowing what you know, do you trust the apparent source of this rumor? I mean the actual seller (who presumably provided the details for the description if not the description entirely) and not the auction house.

 

Well Nexus here is my take on this -

 

If Burkey does own the X-Men #2 Splash and not Mankuta, then he consigned it to Comic Connect (which i find quite surprising in any case), and one could asume he supplied them with the information that they used in relation to the $250,000 X-Men #1 sale.

 

If on the other hand you believe that Mankuta actually still owns the piece and that he consigned it to Comic Connect, then one could asume that he himself wrote the blub, in which case it is there just to hype up the perceived price of the #2 splash.

 

Alternatively the auction house themselves may have spoken to Josh (IMO not likely given their relationship) and found out directly how much he paid for the piece.

 

So many different scenarios, but which one is most likely hm

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