Showcase #22 Club 13 13

[kimik]

You raise an interesting point regarding the graders. It's true that they have transitioned to an almost completely new team of graders. It's a new generation, maybe without the complete set of legacy standards of the previous generation. I'm sure the new graders have been trained well but they don't have the experience to call upon. Not anybody's fault, it's old school vs new school. Buy old label books !

 

I have seen, and received, horrible overgrades on old label books as well. After the initial CGC "hammer" came down at the start dealers and collectors started complaining that CGC was being too tough on books. As a result, there are a lot of old label books that are overgraded as well. It goes in cycles - CGC tightens up, clients complain, they loosen up, clients complain, they tighten up again, etc.

 

The key is to sub as many of your own books that you are looking to sell during the looser periods as possible!

 

In addition, in fairness to the graders, during peak con season there appear to be more books slipping through that are overgraded than at other times. This is likely due to the increased volume of books. It must be difficult to do onsite grading and still try to maintain close to the stated turnarounds on fast track books at the shop while the volume basically doubles.

[kimik]

True enough. In my mind there is a 9.4/9.6 in a box or vault out there. It will surface eventually and then all the discussion about this being the best existing copy will be irrelevant.

 

Without a doubt and I am sure there are multiples nicer not even including the discussion of this book not being as nice as the 9.0s which I really don't think it is either. When the Western Penn finally comes out of hiding wake me up, a real reason to get excited as opposed to this "9.2".

 

Hopefully it was stored well over the years, otherwise it may not live up to our expectations for it.

[Tsimanga]

Maybe It's high time CGC published the guidelines they follow for grading.

 

Why all the mystery

 

So CGC can keep the money flowing in from people hoping for upgrades on resubs.

 

I also believe that CGC knows many books are pressed and give 'gift' grades to books in order to keep people's hopes high for upgrades in pressing and resubbing. CGC is all for pressing... it's been a real cash cow for them.

[tth2]

 

I bolded the most important part. While this is a nice copy, it is nowhere near the best copy they have "ever" seen. Maybe it is the best copy the current graders have ever seen, but take a look at the Clink 9.0 from a while back and you will see the difference. After pressing this copy is nice, but it is not the best copy that has gone through CGC's hands over the years.........

 

You raise an interesting point regarding the graders. It's true that they have transitioned

to an almost completely new team of graders. It's a new generation, maybe without the complete set of legacy standards of the previous generation. I'm sure the new graders have been trained well but they don't have the experience to call upon. Not anybody's fault,

it's old school vs new school. Buy old label books !

As far as I can tell, CGC`s current crop of graders grew up reading Wizard.

[Ghost Town]

Maybe It's high time CGC published the guidelines they follow for grading.

 

Why all the mystery

I think publishing useful CGC guidelines would be an impossible task. There are just so many different combinations of defects, flaws, wear, and aging that any complete guidelines would take up a large chunk of the internet.

 

I know people point to Overstreet's guidelines as an example. They are somewhat useful. But they are also woefully incomplete.

 

I also can imagine the kind of lawyering that CGC would be subject to if they did publish any standards. "Mr. Litch, may I turn your attention to subsection 67c, paragraph k, wherein..."

 

I guess I believe grading is more an art than a science. And art doesn't lend itself well to any type of rigid standards.

[Boba]

Maybe It's high time CGC published the guidelines they follow for grading.

 

Why all the mystery

I think publishing useful CGC guidelines would be an impossible task. There are just so many different combinations of defects, flaws, wear, and aging that any complete guidelines would take up a large chunk of the internet.

 

I know people point to Overstreet's guidelines as an example. They are somewhat useful. But they are also woefully incomplete.

 

I also can imagine the kind of lawyering that CGC would be subject to if they did publish any standards. "Mr. Litch, may I turn your attention to subsection 67c, paragraph k, wherein..."

 

I guess I believe grading is more an art than a science. And art doesn't lend itself well to any type of rigid standards.

 

So it is a mystic art, that only CGC staff have the capacity to comprehend

[Ghost Town]

Maybe It's high time CGC published the guidelines they follow for grading.

 

Why all the mystery

I think publishing useful CGC guidelines would be an impossible task. There are just so many different combinations of defects, flaws, wear, and aging that any complete guidelines would take up a large chunk of the internet.

 

I know people point to Overstreet's guidelines as an example. They are somewhat useful. But they are also woefully incomplete.

 

I also can imagine the kind of lawyering that CGC would be subject to if they did publish any standards. "Mr. Litch, may I turn your attention to subsection 67c, paragraph k, wherein..."

 

I guess I believe grading is more an art than a science. And art doesn't lend itself well to any type of rigid standards.

 

So it is a mystic art, that only CGC staff have the capacity to comprehend

I didn't say that. Or anything close to that.

 

There are many people who can accurately predict CGC's grades with a fairly high degree of accuracy. If only CGC had the capacity to understand their grading standards, that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Boba]

Ok, fair enough.

 

But I still think they could tell us how many of a certain combination of defects add up to a particular technical grade? I realize there are other factors, PQ, yellowing, detached staples, etc., etc., but I don't think you can say it's impossible to document. How would they train the graders if nothing is written down? I mean are they taught using verbal instructions passed from one grader to the next.

[showcase22gr1959]

I just don't see CGC disclosing the details of their grading standards. What I found interesting is that certain books with printing defects can still achieve a 9.8 grade. I had this happen to a few of my books I submitted. Since this defect are more common on particular books, it does not get hammered by CGC. Also, there are books with quite visible dust shadow and can still achieve a 9.4-9.6 grade. I don't agree with both of this, but it is what it is. There are folks who would not agree with other books from there appeal, and I do respect that.

Edited August 5, 2012 by showcase22gr1959

[Ghost Town]

Ok, fair enough.

 

But I still think they could tell us how many of a certain combination of defects add up to a particular technical grade? I realize there are other factors, PQ, yellowing, detached staples, etc., etc., but I don't think you can say it's impossible to document. How would they train the graders if nothing is written down? I mean are they taught using verbal instructions passed from one grader to the next.

I imagine it would go something like this: "Hey, Rookie, go grade that stack of 100 books. Then go get me a sandwich. And when you're back, we'll compare to my grades and I'll show you what a knucklehead you are."

 

But in all seriousness, I would guess it's like you say: verbal instructions passed from one grader to the next. That, and looking at previously graded books.

 

 

[kimik]

 

I bolded the most important part. While this is a nice copy, it is nowhere near the best copy they have "ever" seen. Maybe it is the best copy the current graders have ever seen, but take a look at the Clink 9.0 from a while back and you will see the difference. After pressing this copy is nice, but it is not the best copy that has gone through CGC's hands over the years.........

 

You raise an interesting point regarding the graders. It's true that they have transitioned

to an almost completely new team of graders. It's a new generation, maybe without the complete set of legacy standards of the previous generation. I'm sure the new graders have been trained well but they don't have the experience to call upon. Not anybody's fault,

it's old school vs new school. Buy old label books !

As far as I can tell, CGC`s current crop of graders grew up reading Wizard.

 

If that is the case, then I want to request those graders for my submissions!

 

Did Haspel come back at the beginning of the year? That was when I noticed a tightening of the grades. Maybe too many dealers/BSDs started to complain again so they had to ease off?

 

That being said, I think the volume of books they need to churn through right now has a lot to do with it. This is the third year in a row that I have noticed the same trend - grading loosens up during the peak con season in the summer and tightens up in the at the end/beginning of the year.

 

Unlesss you are Sparkle City, which means consistent overgrading on your books..............

[Bomber-Bob]

 

I bolded the most important part. While this is a nice copy, it is nowhere near the best copy they have "ever" seen. Maybe it is the best copy the current graders have ever seen, but take a look at the Clink 9.0 from a while back and you will see the difference. After pressing this copy is nice, but it is not the best copy that has gone through CGC's hands over the years.........

 

You raise an interesting point regarding the graders. It's true that they have transitioned

to an almost completely new team of graders. It's a new generation, maybe without the complete set of legacy standards of the previous generation. I'm sure the new graders have been trained well but they don't have the experience to call upon. Not anybody's fault,

it's old school vs new school. Buy old label books !

As far as I can tell, CGC`s current crop of graders grew up reading Wizard.

 

If that is the case, then I want to request those graders for my submissions!

 

Did Haspel come back at the beginning of the year? That was when I noticed a tightening of the grades. Maybe too many dealers/BSDs started to complain again so they had to ease off?

 

That being said, I think the volume of books they need to churn through right now has a lot to do with it. This is the third year in a row that I have noticed the same trend - grading loosens up during the peak con season in the summer and tightens up in the at the end/beginning of the year.

 

Unlesss you are Sparkle City, which means consistent overgrading on your books..............

 

I recently picked up my first book from Sparklecity, a recently CGC graded SA DC and I was pleasantly surprised at the nice, tight grade. My first thought was this is how CGC needs to continue to grade. I think you are correct that they get loose during con season.

[Flash105]

That is because they probably spend about half the time it takes to grade a book when they are so busy.

[Aman619]

 

.

 

If only that we're true, they be caught up on schedule!

 

They're slowness proves the opposite, they're grading the same as always.

[kimik]

.

 

If only that we're true, they be caught up on schedule!

 

They're slowness proves the opposite, they're grading the same as always.

 

Not necessarily. They tend to be on time, or even ahead of schedule, at the end/beginning of the year for fast track submissions.

 

If they set up for onsite grading at a show, that means Friday and the following Monday they will have a portion of their staff out of commission due to travel/set up/tear down/etc. Let's say they have one head/lead grader and two other graders at the show to get their three grades/book. That leaves one team basically out of commission for 40% of the business week for a couple of months (if not longer).

 

On top of that, more people are buying books during the convention season which likely increases the volume of books they have to process.

 

I don't know what the financial status of the company is, but adding more graders may not be feasible since they are still a business. In addition, I can't imagine that grading books pays as well as other jobs out there either (if it does, I stand corrected) so it is likely more difficult to attract people that know what they are doing.

 

I agree with everyone that the slow turnaround on grading is an issue, as well as the looser grading during peak season, but I can see how it happens.

[Flash105]

Myself, I could not think of a worse job. It would be tedious boring work and I would terrified handling high dollar books in a work environment.

 

I respect what they have done and to think that grading is going to be perfect and 100% consistent over time when we all say it is part art is unreasonable. That said, IMHO that book is not a 9.2.

 

[showcase22gr1959]

They can be quite discerning in books in 9.8. There are books, which appears 9.8, but with one minuscule flaw and it get hammered to a 9.6. Books between 6.0-9.6 can be as different of .5-.2 grade on a given day. Maybe this SC22 9.2 was a good day for the extra .2 bump.

[kimik]

They can be quite discerning in books in 9.8. There are books, which appears 9.8, but with one minuscule flaw and it get hammered to a 9.6. Books between 6.0-9.6 can be as different of .5-.2 grade on a given day. Maybe this SC22 9.2 was a good day for the extra .2 bump.

 

Key bump is standard as well, I guess.

[VintageComics]

I have seen, and received, horrible overgrades on old label books as well. After the initial CGC "hammer" came down at the start dealers and collectors started complaining that CGC was being too tough on books. As a result, there are a lot of old label books that are overgraded as well. It goes in cycles - CGC tightens up, clients complain, they loosen up, clients complain, they tighten up again, etc.

 

Absolutely.

[John Grumbledook]

I think i may hold the dubious distinction of roughest complete copy of Showcase 22.

Cover detached, but rest of book intact and solidly attached to staples. Looks like someone used the cover as sandpaper though, and set their coffee mug down on it.

But its mine and I loves it.