SNE to flood eBay with 13,000 slabs?

[ShowcaseNE]

Having said THAT, I will say THIS...

 

If we EVER have a renaissance in comic collecting in this country, the likes of which we saw in the early 90's, all of us who own high grade copies of these books will be very, very, very wealthy.

 

When books like Batman #428, which has a low, relatively static number of 9.8s on the census (23, and already sold for high prices, meaning the odds of many more showing up are not likely, even with pressing), are noticed by "the masses", there's no reason for such a book not to be worth $2,000-$3,000 in 2009 dollars.

 

The books with fewer than 10 copies on the census? Through the roof.

 

But that is a gargantuan if, and it's not looking good for the near future.

 

 

There are quite a few collectors, like myself, who are sitting on duplicate copies of Marvel and DC books like Batman #428, Thor #337, Daredevil #181, New Mutants #98, Uncanny X-Men #266, Secret Wars #8, etc. As a collector, I have no desire to slab my copies. I was and continue to be very picky about the condition of the comics I add to my collection. I've been known to hit several LCSs if my preferred LCS does not have the new comics I want in the condition I want.

 

Quite a few books from the 80s on up are secured in middle-aged collectors (I'm 40 years old) collections. Many of us don't bother slabbing our comics because we'd rather buy more comics with that money or we are not actively collecting comics right now. (How many comic collectors from the 80s and 90s drifted over to collecting action figures and never came back to comic collecting, but still have their comic collections? They probably do not know about CGC or follow the current prices of comics.) I'm not planning on parting with any of my comics anytime soon, which is why I have no plans to slab the comics.

 

I run into people all the time who talk to me about the comics they have when they learn I collect them. Many don't take care of the comics ("how much is this worth?" is a common question I hear as I'm shown a rag of a comic), but several of the collections I've seen are well preserved. They were previous collectors who just lost interest in comics. My favorite is a collection of Mad #1-23 that looked new off the stand that a fellow worker has. Why does he have these comics and why were they never read? It's fascinating to me, but he has no plans to part with them anytime soon.

 

I look at CGC prices as a curiosity. I find it fascinating someone will spend so much money on a book encased in plastic with a number telling what the grade of the book is when there are so many of those comics available not encased in equal condition. Take a Battlestar Galactica #1 that sells for $50-60 in 9.8. I personally have 60+ copies of this comic, some of which I'd wager would grade at 9.8. I never spent more than $2-3 for that issue; many were acquired for a much, much lower price. I see the same thing though with many 70s and 80s titles, Marvel Star Wars comics, early Valiant comics, Uncanny X-Men comics, etc.

 

Thanks,

Ron

 

For what it is worth......I'm with you guys. I don't get it either. The slabbing of common books that is.

 

On the one hand, I know how common this material is. My heart tells me to tread cautiously. On the other hand, my mind sees and recognizes the trends....which run counter to what, in my opinion, logic dictates.

 

As I said earlier, I've seen the previous generation make and act on their personal feelings....which were wrong.....and, I have already made the same mistakes myself.

 

It is not all that easy to cast aside your personal feelings with respect to investing large sums of money. The trend, however, is that more and more people want a sure thing with respect to comics, they want certified books. For moderns, they want 9.8's. Period...and they will pay a premium for them.

 

Regardless of whether it is rational...it is the trend. I learned long ago that it rarely pays to fight the "trend".

[MR.COMICBOOK]

I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay multiple of guide for some books in a slab, when the book itself normally does not sell for more than 25% of guide raw. In the case of BG #1, it guides at $12 in 9.2, routinely sells at $3 or less in NM, but fetches $60 for a slabbed 9.8. I'll buy the 20 issues and wager I come out ahead in 20 years over the person who buys that single book slabbed.

 

(thumbs u well said!

 

Agreed. (thumbs u

[Spiderturtle]

SNE: do you have any smurfs 9.8, if you have any I'll be 1st in line to get some

[ShowcaseNE]

SNE: do you have any smurfs 9.8, if you have any I'll be 1st in line to get some

 

No...none were graded.

[jmg3637]

Maybe JMG will buy some!!!

 

The only way I would ever buy from SNE would be a CGC book. Not that there is any chance of that as I am sure that I am blocked, and I don't buy either moderns or high rade slabs

 

It is not that Dan CAN'T grade, it is that he DOES NOT. Takes too much time to actually take the book out of the bag and look at it. As I recall he admitted as much in a previous thread.

 

I bought 5 books from him. Two had undisclosed restoration. 2 others had undisclosed damage. It was so obvious, and I would never say that I am more than average at grading or restoration dection.

 

This is not even commenting on how arrogant and hard DanGNorthford is.

 

With all that said Dan is not stupid and if he is investing over 200k in grading fees he must really believe he will get his money back.

 

 

[mschmidt]

Wheres Flaming Telepath? I hear the guys raw grading and resto detection leave much to be desired.

 

 

OT: If he would answer questions I would have spent about 1K on his modern Tecs by now. But I refuse to pay for shipping on every single purchase. No combining irritates me. And if someone is willing to make an offer on 10 slabs, you should probably respond. (thumbs u

 

I will be watching anyways, but unlikely I will be buying. Have a large purchase coming up, and there will be no funny books for a looong time.

 

Isn't there free shipping on all of his items? Or are you trying to get a discount from the price because of quantities ordered? I have purchased numerous punishers from him, no response to my e-mails either.

Shipping is included in the price. A 29.00 book with a 39.00 BIN is NOT free shipping.

 

If it's a $39 book, it is - you might feel the book is worth $29, but how is that relevant in regards to anything? You're not the seller, it's not your book, so you don't get to set the price. And if you don't like what Showcase is charging, don't buy the book.

 

Selling on ebay, I get messages like this all the time - "Why are you trying to sell this book for $100? Whatever random site/guide/buddy I know says it's only worth $20. So you will sell it to me for $20, right?" - and while I'll be polite and say "No, thank you" when people shoot me ridiculous lowball offers here on the boards, I honestly can't be bothered to extend the same courtesy to legions of clueless ebay buyers.

[nepatkm]

Wheres Flaming Telepath? I hear the guys raw grading and resto detection leave much to be desired.

 

 

OT: If he would answer questions I would have spent about 1K on his modern Tecs by now. But I refuse to pay for shipping on every single purchase. No combining irritates me. And if someone is willing to make an offer on 10 slabs, you should probably respond. (thumbs u

 

I will be watching anyways, but unlikely I will be buying. Have a large purchase coming up, and there will be no funny books for a looong time.

 

Isn't there free shipping on all of his items? Or are you trying to get a discount from the price because of quantities ordered? I have purchased numerous punishers from him, no response to my e-mails either.

Shipping is included in the price. A 29.00 book with a 39.00 BIN is NOT free shipping.

 

If it's a $39 book, it is - you might feel the book is worth $29, but how is that relevant in regards to anything? You're not the seller, it's not your book, so you don't get to set the price. And if you don't like what Showcase is charging, don't buy the book.

 

Selling on ebay, I get messages like this all the time - "Why are you trying to sell this book for $100? Whatever random site/guide/buddy I know says it's only worth $20. So you will sell it to me for $20, right?" - and while I'll be polite and say "No, thank you" when people shoot me ridiculous lowball offers here on the boards, I honestly can't be bothered to extend the same courtesy to legions of clueless ebay buyers.

 

I agree. He has the right to ask any price he chooses, you as the consumer have the right to walk away. I found out the hard way that there are other people willing to pay these amounts. I went from the #1 set to the #3 set when he released a batch of punishers on e-bay. While I thought they were priced a little high, others didn't think so and snatched them up quickly. It's all a matter of how much they are worth to a consumer, and believe me if you pass on it someone will pick it up sooner or later if they are priced within reason. Especially if the seller has patience.

 

 

[ShowcaseNE]

Maybe JMG will buy some!!!

 

The only way I would ever buy from SNE would be a CGC book. Not that there is any chance of that as I am sure that I am blocked, and I don't buy either moderns or high rade slabs

 

It is not that Dan CAN'T grade, it is that he DOES NOT. Takes too much time to actually take the book out of the bag and look at it. As I recall he admitted as much in a previous thread.

 

I bought 5 books from him. Two had undisclosed restoration. 2 others had undisclosed damage. It was so obvious, and I would never say that I am more than average at grading or restoration dection.

 

This is not even commenting on how arrogant and hard DanGNorthford is.

 

With all that said Dan is not stupid and if he is investing over 200k in grading fees he must really believe he will get his money back.

 

 

Hey Jim.....

 

Of all the differences that I have had with any one collector...yours stands out the most.

 

I don't want to rehash any of it as I think we have both moved on. We didn't agree with each other.... but, there is little doubt that we both could have handled it better.

 

I freely admit I make mistakes and that I am not perfect. Like all of you (I think) I have my bad days too. I generally try and make things right....in this particular occasion I bear responsibility and I was not able to satisfy Jim.

 

It happens.

 

Does that warrant a life sentence??? Not for me to decide.

 

One comment needs addressing......No one who has ever worked for me graded through bags. Every book is looked at individually. I have had graders working for me at times that were not always consistent.

 

I do all of the grading now, personally. I no longer use Overstreet Standards....I try and use CGC standards to the best of my ability....and we back it up with money back guarantees for books that are materially different than the grade advertised with refunds for all shipping and CGC fees. As far as I know, I am the only person and company in the nation who does this. As you might imagine, this doesn't happen often. But, it has happened.

 

Further, if the grades we put on raw books were that far off (as some people here intimate), our Ebay feedback would be littered with derogatory f/b. Any problems that anyone has with us...especially these last three/four years, have been minor in nature and rarely have anything to do with grading.

 

Jim is free to buy from us if he wishes (I'll have the setting changed).....but he is correct, he was blocked from bidding for some time. I don't think that upsets him at all, though, as I think being banned by us is a badge of honor for some of you.

[Logan510]

My only question is why do you have 60 copies of BG #1?

 

Why do any of us collect what we collect?

 

This is actually a good question.

 

I collection science fiction titles. I find myself buying duplicates all the time, even though I know I keep telling myself I'd own more different issues if I didn't. Even though I have over 20 copies of Star Wars #1 in NM condition, I cannot help but pick up another copy if I can get it for $12 or less. This is true for other issues like BG #1 ($2 and under), Dark Empire #1-6 ($1 and under), Micronauts #1 ($2 and under), Star Wars Tales #10 (cover and under), any Realm Press BG issue ($3 and under), Logan's Run #1-7 ($2 and under), Shogun Warriors #1-20 ($1 and under), Buck Rogers #1-9,11-16 ($2 and under), Adventures (Malibu) Planet of the Apes #20-24, etc.

 

Several of those BG #1s were bought in lots of 10 a few years ago on E-Bay. I just could not pass them up when I saw them for the price.

 

It's a sickness I guess.

 

Ron

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting you down for having 60 copies of BG #1, everyone has their different obsessions. Now if you had 60 copies of US1 #1...that might be a different story

[cheetah]

I'm looking forward to 13k books at BIN prices. Just hope it fills in the last few slots in my sets. I'm getting tired of looking.

[500Club]

Having said THAT, I will say THIS...

 

If we EVER have a renaissance in comic collecting in this country, the likes of which we saw in the early 90's, all of us who own high grade copies of these books will be very, very, very wealthy.

 

When books like Batman #428, which has a low, relatively static number of 9.8s on the census (23, and already sold for high prices, meaning the odds of many more showing up are not likely, even with pressing), are noticed by "the masses", there's no reason for such a book not to be worth $2,000-$3,000 in 2009 dollars.

 

The books with fewer than 10 copies on the census? Through the roof.

 

But that is a gargantuan if, and it's not looking good for the near future.

 

 

There are quite a few collectors, like myself, who are sitting on duplicate copies of Marvel and DC books like Batman #428, Thor #337, Daredevil #181, New Mutants #98, Uncanny X-Men #266, Secret Wars #8, etc. As a collector, I have no desire to slab my copies. I was and continue to be very picky about the condition of the comics I add to my collection. I've been known to hit several LCSs if my preferred LCS does not have the new comics I want in the condition I want.

 

Quite a few books from the 80s on up are secured in middle-aged collectors (I'm 40 years old) collections. Many of us don't bother slabbing our comics because we'd rather buy more comics with that money or we are not actively collecting comics right now. (How many comic collectors from the 80s and 90s drifted over to collecting action figures and never came back to comic collecting, but still have their comic collections? They probably do not know about CGC or follow the current prices of comics.) I'm not planning on parting with any of my comics anytime soon, which is why I have no plans to slab the comics.

 

I run into people all the time who talk to me about the comics they have when they learn I collect them. Many don't take care of the comics ("how much is this worth?" is a common question I hear as I'm shown a rag of a comic), but several of the collections I've seen are well preserved. They were previous collectors who just lost interest in comics. My favorite is a collection of Mad #1-23 that looked new off the stand that a fellow worker has. Why does he have these comics and why were they never read? It's fascinating to me, but he has no plans to part with them anytime soon.

 

I look at CGC prices as a curiosity. I find it fascinating someone will spend so much money on a book encased in plastic with a number telling what the grade of the book is when there are so many of those comics available not encased in equal condition. Take a Battlestar Galactica #1 that sells for $50-60 in 9.8. I personally have 60+ copies of this comic, some of which I'd wager would grade at 9.8. I never spent more than $2-3 for that issue; many were acquired for a much, much lower price. I see the same thing though with many 70s and 80s titles, Marvel Star Wars comics, early Valiant comics, Uncanny X-Men comics, etc.

 

Thanks,

Ron

 

For what it is worth......I'm with you guys. I don't get it either. The slabbing of common books that is.

 

On the one hand, I know how common this material is. My heart tells me to tread cautiously. On the other hand, my mind sees and recognizes the trends....which run counter to what, in my opinion, logic dictates.

 

As I said earlier, I've seen the previous generation make and act on their personal feelings....which were wrong.....and, I have already made the same mistakes myself.

 

It is not all that easy to cast aside your personal feelings with respect to investing large sums of money. The trend, however, is that more and more people want a sure thing with respect to comics, they want certified books. For moderns, they want 9.8's. Period...and they will pay a premium for them.

 

Regardless of whether it is rational...it is the trend. I learned long ago that it rarely pays to fight the "trend".

 

You are correct at present, Dan. See cheetah's post above. In addition to him, I'm looking for some run filler books. Once the demand is filled and the supply increases, the story may change.

 

But, for now, your 13000 books should be well worth the grading fee investment.

[cheetah]

I think Dan's sales are made for collectors like me. I don't have the opportunities to go to a lot of conventios looking for books and I like to complete runs of titles. I don't mind the slightly higher price when I can pick up a lot of books and know it will be taken care of quickly. The fact that SNE is well known and deals directly with collectors provides enough price break for me.

[500Club]

I think Dan's sales are made for collectors like me. I don't have the opportunities to go to a lot of conventios looking for books and I like to complete runs of titles. I don't mind the slightly higher price when I can pick up a lot of books and know it will be taken care of quickly. The fact that SNE is well known and deals directly with collectors provides enough price break for me.

 

I'm the same as you. I don't have time to source out pristine copies of late Bronze 2nd tier mid run books, and then submit them.

 

Dan's auctions will do well because of this.

 

But, after the collectors like us have had their fill, and as more copies of these books in 9.8 come to market, the long run effect will be a down trend in prices.

[cheetah]

No doubt. You see it with the x-men titles now. Part of the challenge for sellers is not to be the one left holding the bag.

[rjrjr]

My only question is why do you have 60 copies of BG #1?

 

Why do any of us collect what we collect?

 

This is actually a good question.

 

I collection science fiction titles. I find myself buying duplicates all the time, even though I know I keep telling myself I'd own more different issues if I didn't. Even though I have over 20 copies of Star Wars #1 in NM condition, I cannot help but pick up another copy if I can get it for $12 or less. This is true for other issues like BG #1 ($2 and under), Dark Empire #1-6 ($1 and under), Micronauts #1 ($2 and under), Star Wars Tales #10 (cover and under), any Realm Press BG issue ($3 and under), Logan's Run #1-7 ($2 and under), Shogun Warriors #1-20 ($1 and under), Buck Rogers #1-9,11-16 ($2 and under), Adventures (Malibu) Planet of the Apes #20-24, etc.

 

Several of those BG #1s were bought in lots of 10 a few years ago on E-Bay. I just could not pass them up when I saw them for the price.

 

It's a sickness I guess.

 

Ron

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting you down for having 60 copies of BG #1, everyone has their different obsessions. Now if you had 60 copies of US1 #1...that might be a different story

 

I have 20 copies of Man of Steel #1 I bought in a single purchase when I was in a "collect John Byrne" mood. I'd wager I wouldn't pass on a lot of US1 #1 if the price was right.

 

I find that those comics I collect are in my "sweet" spot with regards to price. I'm a frugal spender and rarely spend big money on individual comics. My largest single purchase was $45 for a House of Secrets #92 (1st Swamp Thing). My second largest purchase was yesterday for a Occult Files of Doctor Spektor #1. I've been a collector for over 25 years and only recently have started to spend more money on individual comics. I can afford higher priced books, but the penny pincher in me has always kept me from spending a huge amount of money on individual comics and since most of what I like doesn't fetch high prices (Micronauts, John Carter, etc., and now 70s Gold Keys) I definitely collected in my comfort zone.

 

As I see the cover price of new comics rise, my brain starts to think "I can buy this new comic for $4 or 4 older comics for $1 each." Or "this old comic at $8 is only twice the price of a new comic." It's this type of thinking that keeps me buying raw books over slabbed books.

 

I'm shifting to higher priced books partly out of necessity now. I am running out of room to store the low priced books! (I have considered storage space, but it's that money thing again.) I have been filling a short box of comics every 1-2 months for years now. I'm hoping to slow this down and fill a short box every 5-6 months. At least until my kids are grown up and I can use the rooms they occupy again.

 

Anyways, to bring this back to the subject at hand, I hope SNE does well on his auctions and everyone who buys the slabbed comics enjoys the purchase. Ultimately, its the enjoyment of the comics that should matter. Buy what you like and you cannot go wrong. Especially if most of what we are buying is not worth what we bought it for years from now.

 

Thanks,

Ron

[RockMyAmadeus]

When someone buys a CGC 9.8 book, they know that it's going to, 999 times out of 1,000, fall into a very specific and small range of preservation.

 

Not sure preservation is the right term here.....

 

That phrase also struck me as odd.

 

Physical preservation. What physical condition the book is in. I use that word on purpose.

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is why people pay premiums for these books. You and I may say a book is 9.8, and given my track record, I've been pretty darn good at it so far, but you and I are nobodies. It is not until CGC says it is a 9.8 that it becomes, in the mind of the market, a genuine 9.8. Thus the buyer can have a reasonable expectation about what he's going to receive, instead of constantly "hoping for the best."

 

This is why I pay for their services.

(thumbs u

 

Back to the Battlestar Galactica #1 as my example. I can buy one issue graded at 9.8 for $60 or I can buy 20 issues in NM condition for $60. Of those 20 issues, what are my chances of one of them being in 9.8? Is that issue slabbed really worth 20x the average price of the comic raw? Which would you rather own?

 

I find it fascinating that someone is willing to pay multiple of guide for some books in a slab, when the book itself normally does not sell for more than 25% of guide raw.

 

Tells you how accurate the "guide" really is, but that's a topic for another day...

 

In the case of BG #1, it guides at $12 in 9.2, routinely sells at $3 or less in NM, but fetches $60 for a slabbed 9.8. I'll buy the 20 issues and wager I come out ahead in 20 years over the person who buys that single book slabbed.

 

You're missing the fundamental point of the argument.

 

There are a lot of people who are NOT capable and/or don't have the time to find 9.8s on their own and slab them. For THOSE people, the cost benefit is in their favor to simply pay $60 for an already slabbed 9.8 Battlestar Galactica #1. They have to do no work, they simply have to make a few clicks, and (assuming all goes as it should) on their doorstep appears a book in the grade they desire. No muss, no fuss.

 

More often than not, especially with post 1980's books, the amount of work and cost involved in looking for, obtaining, submitting, and receiving a 9.8 is simply not compensated by the dollar amount they sell for.

 

As to your specific BG #1 example, I do not think it is possible to buy 20 copies in "NM" for $60, but let's assume it is. What are the odds that you're going to find a 9.8 out of a random "stack" of 20 copies? Next to zero. What are the odds you can find a "9.8" if you SEARCH the copies yourself (now you've added time value to the equation, so we're more than $60)? Better, but still very, very small.

 

I would wager $1,000 that you and I could walk the entire floor of the San Diego Comiccon and you would not be able to find...for $3...a raw 9.8 copy of Battlestar Galactica #1.

 

Now...it may be a "9.8" to you, but to the market, it's a raw book, and worth "$3", no matter what you say. To get it approved at 9.8, it has to be submitted, and since the cost of submitting a 1979 is approximately $35-$40 if you send it in by itself, you've just now added that amount to your 9.8 BG #1.

 

So, which do you think the high grade buyer will want to do? Buy 20 "NM" copies with the chance, small as it is, of finding a 9.8, but with no guarantee, and paying $95-$100 in the process?

 

...or paying $60 for a single book that they know is in 9.8 (see? It says so right on the label) without dealing with any of the rest of that?

 

For the same exact result.

 

Let's assume the same book in 9.6 goes for $30 slabbed. What are the chances if I buy 10 issues for the same price, one of them is a 9.6? Is the slabbed book really worth 10x the raw book?

 

Better, but not nearly enough for the cost benefit to work. Remember...the cost to slab, even a 9.6, is still $35-$40 for one book.

 

I understand why people would pay for the slab for old, high value books. The percentages make sense to me. But new modern books that routinely sell for $1-3 raw going for 20x that cost? Again, I regard those sales as a curiosity.

 

Question is, you attend a convention and see the book you want slabbed for $60. You also find a copy of the book raw for $3. Outside of the slab, you see no difference between the grades of the comics. Do you buy the slabbed comic or the raw comic? To me, the cost of the service is not worth more than the actual book itself, so I'm going to buy the raw book for $3.

 

Thanks,

Ron

 

Like I said...you're missing the fundamental point of the argument. You need to understand that there are plenty of people...enough people to support the market...who want the best of the best, and they're willing to pay for it. Very few of those people have the skills, patience, money, or time to do it on their own.

 

If YOU see no difference between those two copies, then, by all means, buy the $3 book., absolutely. You'd be a fool not to. And believe me, I'm with you 100%. I completely understand your point of view, and it's perfectly legitimate.

 

But to those other people, they are paying for the assurance of having a 9.8, and to them, $60 is often nothing for the book they want, "guaranteed" (always the qualifier) in the grade they want. And, indeed, knowing intimately the amount of time and effort and money it takes to produce 9.8s, I agree with that, too.

 

[Topnotchman]

For those who don't get it, dealers like Dan have an infinite pile of comics to be sorted, graded and listed on Ebay. The only way a dealer gets paid is when they get there inventory "out there". So taking time to post on these boards can either be a break in work activity, or just a loss in sales. I appreciate the time Dan has taken to answer some questions, plus he has been around the block for decades with regards to comic knowledge. He has a lot to share, and hopefully he will find the time to take "a break" in his work activities to help share knowledge. Thanks for posting Dan

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

For what it is worth......I'm with you guys. I don't get it either. The slabbing of common books that is.

 

On the one hand, I know how common this material is. My heart tells me to tread cautiously. On the other hand, my mind sees and recognizes the trends....which run counter to what, in my opinion, logic dictates.

 

As I said earlier, I've seen the previous generation make and act on their personal feelings....which were wrong.....and, I have already made the same mistakes myself.

 

It is not all that easy to cast aside your personal feelings with respect to investing large sums of money. The trend, however, is that more and more people want a sure thing with respect to comics, they want certified books. For moderns, they want 9.8's. Period...and they will pay a premium for them.

 

Regardless of whether it is rational...it is the trend. I learned long ago that it rarely pays to fight the "trend".

 

Oy.

 

For moderns, people want 9.8s, and they will pay a premium for them.

 

If it's Amazing Spiderman #300, 301, Albedo #2, New Mutants #98, Harbinger #1...

 

For the thousands and thousands of books that are left...they won't.

 

No one's buying an Alpha Flight #73 in 9.8 for $30. In fact, the two times that one has been sold, they sold for $11 and $10...not even the cost of slabbing.

 

I understand you have a vested interest in promoting these books which prevents you from discussing them realistically. I get it. It would be nice if that weren't true, but this is human nature we're talking about, so...good luck with your sale, truly.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

With all that said Dan is not stupid and if he is investing over 200k in grading fees he must really believe he will get his money back.

 

 

 

Dan didn't pay full price for slabbing....