Sale of the Year - New Mutants #98 CGC 9.9 for $12,250 5 5

[Boozad]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

 

And that is exactly the gripe I've had since rejoining the fold. There are none anywhere near me at all. the only place I can buy back issues is on the net. There's Forbidden Planet of course, but that just about sums up the level of the average reader/collector these days.

[DarkKnightReturns]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

 

The closet CS to my house only has back issues from the last year or two. They barely even have comics in the store. They are more of a RPG and models shop than a comic shop. There are maybe two shops in Vancouver with decent back issues and one on the outskirts. One other shop has more back issues than most stores but the area they are kept is impossible to access because it is covered in toys and other .

[fantastic_four]

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

You're partially right, but printed comics will change in a way that will make them effectively uncollectible and break the tie to the kind of comics we collect--trade paperbacks will replace the monthlies. Trade paperbacks don't seem to lend themselves to collectibility, but I can't put my finger on why I feel that way.

[RockMyAmadeus]

CGC and the Internet have definitively increased the population of one segment of the collecting market--high grade collectors. If it wasn't so easy to get a complete collection of lower-grade books via eBay and dealer sites, I would have never gravitated to high grade so quickly, or perhaps ever. And even if I had started collecting high grade with no Internet to push me towards it, if certification wasn't around, undisclosed additive restoration could have forced me right back out of high grade years ago.

 

Pre-CGC, guys hunting through longboxes for 9.6 and 9.8 copies were as rare as the chupacabra, .

 

 

You're absolutely right, back then, a "what would end up to be" an 8.0 was the same thing as a "what would end up to be" 9.8, and sold for the same amount, unless it was being sold by a VERY savvy seller, and then it was much, much more expensive,. Of course, not even the super anal high grade collectors like me could conceive of what was to come. We just picked out "the very best we could find." The number of people who rejected "what would become 9.0 or lower" books in the 90's? What, maybe 100?

 

And of those, how many could actually afford to hunt out these copies in Silver and earlier? 10? 15? 20? Certainly not me.

 

High grade collectors, though, form a tiny, tiny niche segment of an already wildly shrunken market, so while that market has definitely been birthed and wildly grown by the advent of CGC, it's still just a tiny part of an already small market to begin with.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

Edited November 13, 2009 by MR.COMICBOOK

[VintageComics]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to do be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

It's not just about the eyes. It's about the feel and smell of a comic curling up in your hand.

 

 

That's why I don't like trades.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

 

Taxguy says there are more collectors post-eBay...and you offer the fact that local comic shops barely stock back issues as evidence against that? I'm not saying he's right, as I have no way to measure the size of the collecting community, but the primary reason local comic shops are barely selling back issues now is because collectors no longer sell to them, they sell to each other directly...and guess why? eBay. Every shop in my area tells me the same thing, they used to have collections walk into their doors unsolicted throughout the 80s and 90s, but that slowed and eventually stopped after 1999, so their stock sucks now. The only local comic shops I've seen with decent back issue selection are the ones where owners actively seek collections out as opposed to waiting for collections to come to them.

[Bosco685]

Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

You are not kidding.

 

Even my local pharmacy at the time ended up going into the comic business by dividing up his store because there were so many speculators buying up massive amounts of issues in-bulk.

 

I bought him out later when the market crashed and he realized it wasn't really a sustainable model like his core business. Luckily, I unloaded most of his repeat cases of the same books before the market really dried up.

 

Not good times for those playing at running a comic business.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

You're partially right, but printed comics will change in a way that will make them effectively uncollectible and break the tie to the kind of comics we collect--trade paperbacks will replace the monthlies. Trade paperbacks don't seem to lend themselves to collectibility, but I can't put my finger on why I feel that way.

 

I agree, but I think the demise of the monthly periodical, if it ever comes, will inspire people to collect them in greater numbers, provided the trade format keeps these characters in print and in the public eye. This will especially appeal to people who can now get a "complete collection" of everything, from Action Comics to Y, the Last Man.

 

Even when WDC&S went to Prestige Format with #600, people still sought them out and collected them.

 

And I know why trades have been so disdained...they're "reprints"...and the proscription against "collecting reprints" is deeeeeply ingrained in generations fo collectors.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to do be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

It's not just about the eyes. It's about the feel and smell of a comic curling up in your hand.

 

 

That's why I don't like trades.

 

yeah but the younger generation is used to all this tech now as they grew up with it, look at itunes, most people carry hundreds of songs around on thier ipod, I can see some people downloading the latest issue of Spidey for 99 cents. I guess we will find out in the future.Either way comics will not go away. (thumbs u

Edited November 13, 2009 by MR.COMICBOOK

[Kevin76]

I wonder if the buyer will crack the case open and resubmit it cause he thinks it looks like a 10.0.

[Bosco685]

I wonder if the buyer will crack the case open and resubmit it cause he thinks it looks like a 10.0.

 

No, that only happens with ComicLink auctions via preview night.

[Dick Pontoon]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to do be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

It's not just about the eyes. It's about the feel and smell of a comic curling up in your hand.

 

 

That's why I don't like trades.

 

 

Trades don’t measure up in that regard, and for the SA/BA Marvel trades I’ve seen, the reproduction often poops the bed, and the coloring is awful. In some instances though, they’re okay. Take an EC Archives for example. Not as cool as a comic, but they look great, and are a lot safer to read in bed than an original.

 

As far as digital comics go, I may be in the minority, but I look at a computer screen for work for about 8 hours a day. I can’t fathom ever having the desire to read a comic, book or magazine that way.

 

[fantastic_four]

And I know why trades have been so disdained...they're "reprints"...and the proscription against "collecting reprints" is deeeeeply ingrained in generations fo collectors.

 

Even when they're no longer reprints and they're the originals because the monthlies stop, something about the physical format seems tough to collect. Maybe I'm just too tied to floppy, thin comics and I'm wrong, perhaps people would've been collecting TPBs today if that's the medium that had risen in the 1930s instead of thin comics.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is.

[EastEnd]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

 

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

 

I'll argue against that vociferously.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

 

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

 

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

 

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

 

Don't think it matters. The point is that there is growth over the last ten years... and a lot of it... when many other collectible fields (including modern comic books) are shrinking. I also think there's a lot more depth to today's environment. Sure there were a lot of collectors in the early nineties... but many of them were collecting recent back issues hoping to make the future killing. Today's collector is heavily focused on gold, silver and bronze which I think is much healthier for the hobby.

[EastEnd]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

 

The back issues stocked by LCS's in the late eighties and early nineties were predominantly recent back issues. In New York City (where I live) there were very few that devoted significant floor space to gold, silver or bronze -- that was a radical shift from the late seventies when almost every LCS I frequented devoted MOST of their floor space to vintage back issues. As I said earlier, there was little depth to the back issue collecting in the 1990 time frame... back issue collecting is much healthier today... the books that SHOULD be worth more money are generally the ones being bought

[RockMyAmadeus]

Don't think it matters. The point is that there is growth over the last ten years... and a lot of it... when many other collectible fields (including modern comic books) are shrinking.

 

It absolutely does.

 

Where is this "growth" you're talking about?

 

Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago.

 

With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now.

 

If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown.

 

Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close.

 

In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting.

 

I also think there's a lot more depth to today's environment. Sure there were a lot of collectors in the early nineties... but many of them were collecting recent back issues hoping to make the future killing. Today's collector is heavily focused on gold, silver and bronze which I think is much healthier for the hobby.

 

These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference!

[Currin Comics]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

 

Taxguy says there are more collectors post-eBay...and you offer the fact that local comic shops barely stock back issues as evidence against that? I'm not saying he's right, as I have no way to measure the size of the collecting community, but the primary reason local comic shops are barely selling back issues now is because collectors no longer sell to them, they sell to each other directly...and guess why? eBay. Every shop in my area tells me the same thing, they used to have collections walk into their doors unsolicted throughout the 80s and 90s, but that slowed and eventually stopped after 1999, so their stock sucks now. The only local comic shops I've seen with decent back issue selection are the ones where owners actively seek collections out as opposed to waiting for collections to come to them.

 

BINGO FF, Ebay is the Back Issue market now, as my LCS calls me ( case with the 3 NM 98 I unloaded), I come in usually make the deal since the buyer is "motivated" and then give the owner a bird dog fee for the hook-up. When I was still in the Raleigh area I cleaned out both Capital Comics stores and Foundations Edge of Silver Age Spidey and FF and the VF or better Marvel Horror I sucked up like a Black Hole (whoops, that's porb headed to the "out of context member quotes"), it especially true for WBN 32 and TOD 10 as both LCS call me for them at least twice a month. The pure fact is as you put it-Ebay is the transcendental long-box for back issues and the LCS simply can't recover from this to re-stock a quality back issue selection-Peace CC.

[Bosco685]

Ebay is the transcendental long-box for back issues

I never looked at it this way - makes perfect sense!