Discretion or butting into someone else's business.

[Dale Roberts]

Hypothetical (or not)....

 

Say someone new to the boards is running a sales thread, and many of the books look to be trimmed. I don't know that everyone could spot this, or if the books actually are trimmed or just look like they are trimmed. But the books share characteristics of being trimmed. Also, let say a couple of board members (who are pretty sharp) discuss this and both come to the same conclusion independent of one another.

 

What should be done? If the seller won't acknowledge it, and some people are actively buying books, what do you do? Do you sit back and say caveat emptor and mind your own business? Do you thread ? Do you PM the guy and ask him? What if he says in a PM, I don't know, won't know until/unless they are graded. Lots of possible repurcussions here. What if you out the guy and the books actually are not trimmed? I wouldn't want to do that to someone.

 

What should be done?

 

 

[ciorac]

PM the buyers and make them aware of your concerns at a minimum

[namisgr]

Discretion, along with a p.m. to the seller urging him to address the matter.

[chromium]

VERY good point... I've been pondering the same...

 

I'm pretty sure I know which thread you are talking about...I had two friends PM me today to talk about the selling-thread and the very nice prices and I told both of them that I was staying away as I feared some of the books look trimmed...

But then again, it's hard to tell from scans...but the tell-tale signs are there.

I wouldn't "mess" up the sellers thread in public, but I will tell my friends who I know are interested in the books to be "careful"

 

Unfortunately some people will get burned if they do come back trimmed... but I'd rather set a guilty man free than imprison an innocent man if I can't be 100% sure.

[1koko]

If the seller is not acknowledging it and I felt pretty comfortable with my point of view I would ask in the thread what the sellers return policy is with regards to restoration.

 

Use as an example the concern that a book when delivered looks like it has some restoration or trimming can you send it straight back for a refund or would you need to CGC it (with refund of fees if comes back with resto).

 

If he refuses to answer this question then ask the question re the particular comics and see what his response is.

 

 

 

 

 

[1koko]

PM the buyers and make them aware of your concerns at a minimum

 

some buyers could be done off thread through PM.

[skypinkblu]

I have no idea what thread this is...but since offtimes sales go on off the thread, it needs to be brought up where others can see it, not just by pming the known buyers.

 

I'd PM the seller first and see what he says...he might not have had any idea..and you have more experience than most Dale, so you are kind of a keeper of the flame type person...Thanks for helping (thumbs u

 

You might need to post further if this person doesn't take some kind of positive action.

[Foolkiller]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

[Green]

I know what thread. I agree. And i think ive detected other resto as well, and large defects that are hard to see in the scans being ignored in the grades. My Pms were read with no response.

 

Hypothetically speaking of course.

[Tropean]

 

Definitely the first step is a PM. If the seller is authentically new to the boards, and perhaps to the hobby (giving the seller the benefit of the doubt here), then something along the lines of "I'm a professional dealer who makes my living buying, selling and grading comic books. Over the years I have personally graded thousands (tens of thousands?) of books, so I've developed a pretty good eye. I couldn't help but notice that many of the books in your thread appear to have been trimmed [and maybe here you insert a one-sentence description of exactly what you mean by trimming]. If the books are trimmed, then their value is seriously impacted, if not destroyed. Whether or not a book has been trimmed is something that all purchasers, and certainly the folks on these boards, would want to know. If you would like me to take a closer look, perhaps you can email me some higher resolution scans, and I can give you some advice on how to pursue a refund from whomever sold you the books."

 

In my view this is a non-threatening, non-judgmental way to make the first approach. And if the fellow refuses your offer of free advice (and the fact that it is coming from you, Dale, with the experience and reputation you bring to the table, makes a world of difference than if this was just a random guy on the boards, like me ) and assistance to resolve what could be a serious problem, then you have a reasonable suspicion that he might not be completely innocent.

 

Of course, the tricky part comes when and if you are met by silence for an extended period of time. Still reflecting on the proper course of action then . . .

 

FWIW.

[Dale Roberts]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

 

Lets just say hypothetically that someone was PMed, and basically said, I don't really know one way or the other, and I told him directly that at least 3 books in the thread were almost certainly trimmed and he said we will never know unless/until the books get graded.

 

Also, non accusatory questions were posed in the thread to the seller and he says he will accept returns. The problem being, (I think)you are paypal protected for only 30 days. It is going to be hard for anyone to get books back within 30 days from CGC, unless they do an express. I just really fear that some people are lining up to get screwed over.

 

And it is always possible that I am wrong.

[Foolkiller]

I think that's a well crafted response above.

[Green]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

 

Lets just say hypothetically that someone was PMed, and basically said, I don't really know one way or the other, and I told him directly that at least 3 books in the thread were almost certainly trimmed and he said we will never know unless/until the books get graded.

 

Also, non accusatory questions were posed in the thread to the seller and he says he will accept returns. The problem being, (I think)you are paypal protected for only 30 days. It is going to be hard for anyone to get books back within 30 days from CGC, unless they do an express. I just really fear that some people are lining up to get screwed over.

 

And it is always possible that I am wrong.

It could be overnighted to CI for proscreen.

[Foolkiller]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

 

Lets just say hypothetically that someone was PMed, and basically said, I don't really know one way or the other, and I told him directly that at least 3 books in the thread were almost certainly trimmed and he said we will never know unless/until the books get graded.

 

Also, non accusatory questions were posed in the thread to the seller and he says he will accept returns. The problem being, (I think)you are paypal protected for only 30 days. It is going to be hard for anyone to get books back within 30 days from CGC, unless they do an express. I just really fear that some people are lining up to get screwed over.

 

And it is always possible that I am wrong.

 

Look, this is tricky because you don't really want to krap in someone's thread. There were some very knowledgeable and experienced collectors who bought in that thread as well.

 

On the other hand, if he takes returns, the buyers can inspect the books upon their receipt and make a decision about whether to return them.

 

I think it's fine to publicly state concerns in a thread (similar to what you are doing here) and then moving on. They're free to make their own determination, and while I think you are correct that several of the books are trimmed, look severely overgraded in many instances and don't seem worth the risk... again, there are some very experienced collectors buying them, so I think it's fair to let them make their own determination and evaluation.

[JvR11]

If the seller was on the up and up they would agree to a full refund in the event of trimming. I think if these are expensive books they should be slabbed as a cost of doing business. Couldn't you get a proscreen a lot earlier? I bet Matt could turn this around within the 30 day window.

[JvR11]

I think you should state something in the thread. There are people who aren't as experienced and wouldn't be able to see it and would fall victim.

[gaz2810i]

Definitely the first step is a PM. If the seller is authentically new to the boards, and perhaps to the hobby (giving the seller the benefit of the doubt here), then something along the lines of "I'm a professional dealer who makes my living buying, selling and grading comic books. Over the years I have personally graded thousands (tens of thousands?) of books, so I've developed a pretty good eye. I couldn't help but notice that many of the books in your thread appear to have been trimmed [and maybe here you insert a one-sentence description of exactly what you mean by trimming]. If the books are trimmed, then their value is seriously impacted, if not destroyed. Whether or not a book has been trimmed is something that all purchasers, and certainly the folks on these boards, would want to know. If you would like me to take a closer look, perhaps you can email me some higher resolution scans, and I can give you some advice on how to pursue a refund from whomever sold you the books."

 

In my view this is a non-threatening, non-judgmental way to make the first approach. And if the fellow refuses your offer of free advice (and the fact that it is coming from you, Dale, with the experience and reputation you bring to the table, makes a world of difference than if this was just a random guy on the boards, like me ) and assistance to resolve what could be a serious problem, then you have a reasonable suspicion that he might not be completely innocent.

 

Of course, the tricky part comes when and if you are met by silence for an extended period of time. Still reflecting on the proper course of action then . . .

 

FWIW.

 

This is a difficult question and I like the response above. Like you said it could be nothing or something and you really do not want to offend anyone or loose them business well unless they're are doing something knowingly wrong. I would certainly send a similar mail to the one above to the seller and if you know any of the buyers then give them a kind word detailing your concerns. Depending on their responses then you could take matters further into letting everyone know your concerns.

[szelim]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

 

Lets just say hypothetically that someone was PMed, and basically said, I don't really know one way or the other, and I told him directly that at least 3 books in the thread were almost certainly trimmed and he said we will never know unless/until the books get graded.

 

Also, non accusatory questions were posed in the thread to the seller and he says he will accept returns. The problem being, (I think)you are paypal protected for only 30 days. It is going to be hard for anyone to get books back within 30 days from CGC, unless they do an express. I just really fear that some people are lining up to get screwed over.

 

And it is always possible that I am wrong.

Would the seller identify (via PM) whether these books came from the same source, and if so, identify that source?

 

[BrianR]

Discretion, go the PM route. I have the exact same concerns Dale has -- of course you can't really tell unless in hand -- but the bottom line is, without a firm track record or clearly stated return policy, I would be very wary.

 

Lets just say hypothetically that someone was PMed, and basically said, I don't really know one way or the other, and I told him directly that at least 3 books in the thread were almost certainly trimmed and he said we will never know unless/until the books get graded.

 

Also, non accusatory questions were posed in the thread to the seller and he says he will accept returns. The problem being, (I think)you are paypal protected for only 30 days. It is going to be hard for anyone to get books back within 30 days from CGC, unless they do an express. I just really fear that some people are lining up to get screwed over.

 

And it is always possible that I am wrong.

 

Look, this is tricky because you don't really want to krap in someone's thread. There were some very knowledgeable and experienced collectors who bought in that thread as well.

 

On the other hand, if he takes returns, the buyers can inspect the books upon their receipt and make a decision about whether to return them.

 

I think it's fine to publicly state concerns in a thread (similar to what you are doing here) and then moving on. They're free to make their own determination, and while I think you are correct that several of the books are trimmed, look severely overgraded in many instances and don't seem worth the risk... again, there are some very experienced collectors buying them, so I think it's fair to let them make their own determination and evaluation.

 

I know the thread and agree with these statements, while the seller seems nice; we've had several new sellers flake out. I am baffled by the amount of purchases that are occurring within the sale based on the grading and possible other issues. We are all adults and make our own decisions. On the other hand this is supposed to be a community and communities look out for each other. If the seller doesn't want to disclose the concerns, perhaps someone should step up in a responsible and polite manner state these concerns.

[thehumantorch]

I know what thread. I agree. And i think ive detected other resto as well, and large defects that are hard to see in the scans being ignored in the grades. My Pms were read with no response.

 

Hypothetically speaking of course.

 

Agreed. The images on the thread were fairly small but some of the books looked trimmed. That thread could turn out to be a royal mess, without the Queen of course.

 

Sharon makes a very valid point about comics sold via PM or outside the thread. PMin the obvious buyers may not be enough.