Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

[Foolkiller]

When I was considering building a website, we talked with Rhino and he mentioned that his wife did web design etc. We have enough talented people here that I think we could get something put together -- it's complicated though -- determining how it would be run, and you'd have to think about how you'd generate attention etc. Raising the funds to pay for it... but again, I think the only way to truly end this type of behavior is to get people to support a site that won't engage in that. If you start from scratch, you can make it what you want. I've long thought this would be worth the investment long term -- and I want to consider it and follow through.

[Foolkiller]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

 

Strange question, but where do the proceeds go?

 

 

Simply to pay for the cost of the site. Otherwise, you make the fees as low as possible. Probably pay for the guy/gal who runs and maintains your site and a few other overhead expenses.

[MrBedrock]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

[NewWorldOrder]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

Richard, pitchers and catchers in just two weeks.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

I was referring to Doug. He's been caught with his hands in the cookie jar...yet again, I might add...so let's not do business with him.

 

However, if the same thing came up with another auction house...why not?

 

I fail to see where the over-reaction is?

[scarlson-migration]

why do you not like Metropolis and subsequently not buy from them ? (just asking because you said in your post that you tell people why)

[drbanner]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

Richard, pitchers and catchers in just two weeks.

Who's who?

Nevermind, but I suggest taking it to PM!

[NewWorldOrder]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

Richard, pitchers and catchers in just two weeks.

Who's who?

Nevermind, but I suggest taking it to PM!

 

Well the Phillies have been giving it to the NL for the past couple of seasons.

[etanick]

Personally I would rather sell my books here or buy my books on this site via an auction system, even with reserves (I don't mind them) instead of dealing with the chaos of the market place and numerous PM's on discounts and package deal. I don't mind selling things at a discount to get rid of my stuff quickly as most that bought from me here will attest...I rarely say no or my counter offer is very reasonable.

 

I think the participation will be much less compared to the major auction houses but so what? It won't be much difference than what Highgradecomics is set up already. Heck, I would ask Bob to form a partnership with this site, not recreating the wheel but just adjusted his site to be more auction ready instead of bid and wait. In the end, Bob get a small % as the intermediary but unlike CL and other auction houses, he won't have to deal with holding the books, deal with collecting and shipping..thus a small % and not 7%.

 

just a suggestion I am throwing out. I am just using Bob's site as an example and I have no business dealing with him. I did submit my slabs thru his site so he must have made some money off me that way

 

I think if there is a reserve and the highest bid didn't cross it, then let the PMs rip.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

 

George is saying not to bid which is penalizing alot of the honest sellers, and that would not be fair to them.

 

 

I'm saying the temporary ban should be both as buyers and as sellers.

 

As for hurting honest sellers, when Comiclink decides to take on another 9.4 graded book as a consignment to pit against the one I already consigned to an auction, as well as a 9.6 and 9.2 copy, it seems they really don't give a rat's about me as a consignor to begin with. But, if two of those four sellers partipate in the moritorium, the remaining sellers might make out alright, even though the auction house takes in lesser overall revenue because they have two fewer books.

 

Besides, my suggestion for a moritorium would only be if an auction website decided to not subscribe to a basic set of guidelines that most everyone could agree to. I'm talking about guidelines that expressly forbid shilling of any type, that set a standard for the inclusion of both front and back cover scans (and at a miniumum resolution), that favor disclosure (especially if the seller WANTS to include such info in their item detail), etc.

 

Of course, getting us together to agree on even a basic set of 5-6 universal guidelines would still be like herding cats....but why not try, right?

 

 

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

Richard, normally I agree 100% with the Laissez-faire approach to doing business in this hobby. But there are so few protections for the buyer, especially for novices, that it adds an additional element of risk for a hobby that already suffers from shrinking demographics and increased competition for discretionary dollars from other forms of more modern entertainment.

 

I will always vote with my wallet, but I'm suggesting we can also tell the various auction houses what they can do (assuming they aren't doing it already) to keep us as customers going forward.

 

[MCMiles]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

 

It's a great idea Brian, and one that I know for a fact has been discussed among various groups of people at other times. One big hurdle is everyone on here that thinks their way is the best way, the most righteous way. Pressing alone would have some demanding that others not be allowed to participate. As seen on here in many instances in the marketplace, not everyone has the same idea of what needs to be policed. Not everyone has the same idea about what is acceptable. It would take some well thought out published standards.

 

 

 

[EastEnd]

Actually, we can guffaw all we like, but George has a very good idea.

 

Why can't we arrange a boycott of an auction, both consigning and buying? A lot of the heavy-hitters are here and a decent take-up would certainly send a message that, as consumers, we're not prepared to take this scamming any longer?

 

I personally have not bought a book from Pedigree, Heritage, Matt Nelson, CLink or Lauterbach for over four years now, simply because I disagree with their 'business model' (a phrase which gives it more validity than it's due, IMHO).

 

Why can't people hold off for one single month, for the overall benefit of the hobby as a whole?

You guys can organize and accomplish anything if you set your mind to it.

But I think you all are going way out on a limb.

 

Doug is a knucklehead. He is probably doing some shady stuff with his auctions. At the least it has come out that he is selectively reporting sales to GPA. So because of that you all want to boycott the entire auction system and every auction house that deals in comics!

Hell, why don't you just burn your own homes down like they did in Watts.

It is really pretty simple -

If you don't like the way Doug has conducted his business don't buy from him. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like Heritage don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

If you don't like ComicLink don't buy from them. And tell people why.

 

I don't like Metro so I don't buy from them. And I tell people why.

 

And if you don't like comics anymore don't buy them. And tell all of us why.

 

The discussion makes the difference.

And the discussions here are pretty darn entertaining.

The overreaction is downright hilarious!

 

While I agree that we need to be wary about going to a scorched earth policy, the "overreaction" is completely understandable... people are fed up and they're justifiably angry... there's nothing hilarious about this. Personally though, I'd prefer to keep things focused on the issue at hand and this particular seller. When the solution over-reaches, it tends to not accomplish much.

[Dale Roberts]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

 

It's a great idea Brian, and one that I know for a fact has been discussed among various groups of people at other times. One big hurdle is everyone on here that thinks their way is the best way, the most righteous way. Pressing alone would have some demanding that others not be allowed to participate. As seen on here in many instances in the marketplace, not everyone has the same idea of what needs to be policed. Not everyone has the same idea about what is acceptable. It would take some well thought out published standards.

 

 

 

C'Mon guys. Does there really need to be MORE auctions??? There are already about 2 dozen auctions a year, and before long, we would have multiple threads complaining about shilling on THIS auction site.

 

I think it is an absolute waste of time and a good way to completely destroy the marketplace.It can only lead to disaster and will ultimately lead to fees on this site for selling.

 

If you want to start a website, and run auctions, I wish you the best. But lets don't ruin this site.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Brian,

 

I am all for your idea of setting an auction system here in addition to the market place in existence already.

 

Not that my boycotting will hurt them much but I think I will step away from participating at any auctions for the next few months.

 

 

I just think it'd be interesting to try. Of course it wouldn't have amazing results at first, but it's something you'd have to build. John, my proposal would be for the commission to be even lower than 7% -- as low as possible to make it functional and sufficient. It all depends on the material and that people know about it. It's a huge idea that requires a lot of thought, but I'm just offering it as a point of further discussion.

 

It's a great idea Brian, and one that I know for a fact has been discussed among various groups of people at other times. One big hurdle is everyone on here that thinks their way is the best way, the most righteous way. Pressing alone would have some demanding that others not be allowed to participate. As seen on here in many instances in the marketplace, not everyone has the same idea of what needs to be policed. Not everyone has the same idea about what is acceptable. It would take some well thought out published standards.

 

 

 

I agree that compromises would have to be reached, but it's still worth a shot.

 

I personally don't like pressing (a shock, I know), but I'd suggest disclosure would be the compromise position that I could live with.

 

Same goes for other issues.

[namisgr]

It'd work better if people refrained from submitting comics to the auction. Don't punish the people selling.

 

+1

 

Fixed price sales are the way to go, and there's at least a handful of reputable dealers with whom you can consign your books.

[supapimp]

sad to say, but it looks like eBay is the way to go.

[qualitycomix]

As Richard said, some of you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. George (Jive) brings up issues of poor customer service, lack of good results and a generally non-caring attitude.

 

Auction companies provide a service. Some only have the almighty dollar in their heads and don't care if 10 copies of a big key in the same grade are in the same auction even if that bastardizes the prices acheived on that book. Not all auction houses are created equal and not all auction houses treat their customers the same.

 

It's nice to expand on Pedigree's shady dealings and say let's boycott auctions, or let's boycott consigning, or let's form our own auction house, but I think that the reaction is misplaced. Pedigree Comics should be the target of your boycotts, not Comiclink or Heritage or Comic Connect or us for that matter. If any of those other companies have also done these same things, then maybe those auction houses should be boycotted.

 

Somehow Auction houses have become a dirty word. And I'm not sure why. Quality Comix charges 7% for any CGC certified book. That is lower than any other legitimate auction house. We spend a great deal of money on advertising and building the Quality Comix brand. We have a professional shipping department. We have generally responsive customer service. We have a professional looking, easy to use website that we are constantly updating. All of these things cost money. We also disclose any work that has been done to a comic that we sell and we request our consignors do the same.

 

I believe that there are quite a few auction web sites that boardies are currently using that you guys could take over and make big, if that is your choice. And I think they don't charge much.

 

You will run into problems when you have an auction and the book is not "in house". Someone wins the book for less than what they want and the book is never shipped out or "sold" somewhere else. Shilling will take place. Friends will buy books back for their friends. Non-disclosure will happen and so on. Auction Nirvana won't happen with your own auctions either, but maybe it will be a better venture than what is currently in the marketplace.

[qualitycomix]

The reason people like auctions because it's like gambling. It's the opportunity to buy a book at a significant discount to retail either for resale or just to get a great deal. It's also the "thrill" of bidding on that hard to find book and then hopefully winning it.

 

Some of the auction prices achieved would have NEVER happened in a fixed price environment. On BOTH sides, high and low.

 

If I ask $35,000 for a Cap #117 CGC 9.8, will it sell? Probably not. But put it into an auction, and those same guys who were looking at the book, suddenly bid it up to near that number. That's human psychology at work and that's why auctions aren't going anywhere. We WANT auctions. We also want auctions where the game is not rigged against buyers/bidders and I think assurances should be made on the part of the auction houses that shady stuff is not going on.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

As Richard said, some of you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. George (Jive) brings up issues of poor customer service, lack of good results and a generally non-caring attitude.

 

Auction companies provide a service. Some only have the almighty dollar in their heads and don't care if 10 copies of a big key in the same grade are in the same auction even if that bastardizes the prices acheived on that book. Not all auction houses are created equal and not all auction houses treat their customers the same.

 

It's nice to expand on Pedigree's shady dealings and say let's boycott auctions, or let's boycott consigning, or let's form our own auction house, but I think that the reaction is misplaced. Pedigree Comics should be the target of your boycotts, not Comiclink or Heritage or Comic Connect or us for that matter. If any of those other companies have also done these same things, then maybe those auction houses should be boycotted.

 

Somehow Auction houses have become a dirty word. And I'm not sure why. Quality Comix charges 7% for any CGC certified book. That is lower than any other legitimate auction house. We spend a great deal of money on advertising and building the Quality Comix brand. We have a professional shipping department. We have generally responsive customer service. We have a professional looking, easy to use website that we are constantly updating. All of these things cost money. We also disclose any work that has been done to a comic that we sell and we request our consignors do the same.

 

I believe that there are quite a few auction web sites that boardies are currently using that you guys could take over and make big, if that is your choice. And I think they don't charge much.

 

You will run into problems when you have an auction and the book is not "in house". Someone wins the book for less than what they want and the book is never shipped out or "sold" somewhere else. Shilling will take place. Friends will buy books back for their friends. Non-disclosure will happen and so on. Auction Nirvana won't happen with your own auctions either, but maybe it will be a better venture than what is currently in the marketplace.

 

Pressing will "happen" too Brent, but some people have chosen to Disclose it, while others do not. You of all people should know this.

 

Shilling will happen too, but an auction house can proactively say they have done this, this, and this to try and disuade the practice.

 

I'm not trying to take cheap shots at anyone, but there is room for improvement with most of the major auction houses. However, if one steps forward and voluntarily and proactively "raises the standard", that would only be a good thing.