Would you shop at a comic store like this??

[comicalgems]

I almost think a perfect Back Issue store would be one that separates the customer from the books. Meaning that the owner/staff indexes the supply and puts it into a database. A customer wanting to shop for comics can have access to the database and then can say "Alright I'd like to look at your very fine Daredevil 12, your VG plus Iron Man 55, and I'd also like the twelve most recent issues of Amazing Spider-Man" Then the shop owner/staff go pull the books requested, if they're going to buy them great, if not then they are returned to the file (a completely separate room from the sales floor) by the owner/staff. I think this would cut down on theft, damage to books, and would get people focussed on specific issues that they are looking for and save them an hour flipping through long boxes and bending up all your other stuff.

[Dale Roberts]

So, the consensus is that everybody would like to shop there, but many people don't think it would survive???

[conditionfreak]

Dale. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I have a serious question.

 

When you say things like "Everything priced at a level to sell". Do you actually mean that?

 

I mean, if you have a book that books for $100 in Overstreet. What would you ask for it? Just curious.

 

IMO, priced to sell means like 30-35 bucks. Priced to sell "eventually" probably means like 50-70 bucks. Do you start it out near Overstreet and lower it as it doesn't sell? Like most stores do already. Do you start it out at or above guide, then have a so called "Thanksgiving Day Sale"? Or do you price it slightly above guide, and tell potential customers that it is "hot" and always goes for over guide?

 

So. Let's just say that you have a business like you described and you have eight NM+ copies of Secret Wars #8's. What would you ask for them in this business?

 

GPA (based on books actually slabbed) is somewhere around 42 bucks for a 9.6. The ComicsPriceGuide.com also has a raw price for a 9.6 as 42 bucks. I don't know what the current Overstreet price is, but you probably do.

 

So. What would you ask for a NM+ Secret Wars #8, in the business you are talking about?

 

I personally think that most comic shops that "go under", go under because they don't understand the flow of money needed in a business. They simply can't see the forest for the trees. Four bucks for a book that has been sitting in your box, even if it guides for forty bucks, is better than a forty dollar book just sitting there.

 

But, I am one who thinks that just about ALL comic books are way over-valued. I do understand that they are collectibles and worth exactly what you can get for them. No more and no less. But what I don't understand is the concept of the "passage of time" in pursuit of that price. There has to be a constant flow of money to keep a business going. Keepin a Secret Wars 8 in your box for sale for a year, at 35 bucks, just can't be a good thing. Even if youeventually sell it for 30 bucks.

 

Would it have been better to sell it the first week that you had it, for 15 bucks and make one of your customers happy, or would it have been best to hold out for the 35 bucks for a year?

 

I'm just asking. I have never owned a business.

[Dale Roberts]

So, the consensus is that everybody would like to shop there, but many people don't think it would survive???

 

Lets ask this question from the other direction then? If new books are the way to go, why don't comic stores make money. With the exception of only the biggest stores (like Richards), all I hear are store owners saying how bad new issues are, how much they pay Diamond and how little they get in return.

 

I mean think about it. Say you purchase 200K from Diamond in a year (which I would guess is something in line with what most stores do). If you are lucky, you are going to sell about 75% of that product. The comics you are probably going to about double your money on, but you are not going to have complete sell through, so alot of your profit is sitting there in product (that all your customers already have a copy of). If you do have closer to complete sell through, your business can never grow, because you don't have any product left. Not to mention, that there is another store right down the block that carries the EXACT same product, and they are probably discounting it to beat your price. And Midtown comics is offering 40% off to anybody that wants it, and will ship to your home.

 

Also, items like statues, t-shirts, etc, the discount sucks, so you have to sell 2 of 3 statues to break even.

[HouseofComics.Com]

I don't know how many times I've gone into a promising comic book store while traveling, only to find the back issue bins doubling as glorified sorting tables for new product. Littered with t-shirts, model kits, carded figures, and other non-comics BS, the books themselves were completely inaccessible --

 

Totally know what you're talking about!

[3319comics]

So, the consensus is that everybody would like to shop there, but many people don't think it would survive???

 

Lets ask this question from the other direction then? If new books are the way to go, why don't comic stores make money. With the exception of only the biggest stores (like Richards), all I hear are store owners saying how bad new issues are, how much they pay Diamond and how little they get in return.

 

I mean think about it. Say you purchase 200K from Diamond in a year (which I would guess is something in line with what most stores do). If you are lucky, you are going to sell about 75% of that product. The comics you are probably going to about double your money on, but you are not going to have complete sell through, so alot of your profit is sitting there in product (that all your customers already have a copy of). If you do have closer to complete sell through, your business can never grow, because you don't have any product left. Not to mention, that there is another store right down the block that carries the EXACT same product, and they are probably discounting it to beat your price. And Midtown comics is offering 40% off to anybody that wants it, and will ship to your home.

 

Also, items like statues, t-shirts, etc, the discount sucks, so you have to sell 2 of 3 statues to break even.

totally get what your saying, have one store here that says he doesnt buy any old stuff cause he has so much tied up in new product and other comic stuff, plus tryin to keep a small place so rent is cheap.

So an old style shop doesnt work and a new style shop doesnt work , and both wont work without internet sales. So sounds like physical stores will be a thing of the past ??

[HouseofComics.Com]

There is also a vast difference in the amount of time it takes to put out some new books out on the racks versus taking in a collection, strictly grading each copy, then rebagging and pricing each comic...

 

If you have quarter bins and dollar bins, then you need to start differentiating the comic books somehow... If they're not worth bagging, then you need to start stamping comics.

 

Agree completely with these points.

 

Also, the beauty of the new product is that it turns fast. 80-90% of what just came in on the Diamond shipment sells within two months. Back issues just aren't going to work that way and if you're buying all the itme you are going to end up with tons of dupes. Even if you are paying four cents each, after a time, how many more sets of X-Men vs. Avengers are you going to need? Or be able to store?

 

As I said in the other thread, I think this idea works if it's a sideline and helps feed the online business.

 

With years of cultivating local customers and some very good partners, I have trouble getting a groundswell of excitement over my small grassroots shows in Berkeley. The people I know love the idea and come. But others are busy or don't want to travel or whatever. And this is in a metro area with millions of people and only 2-3 conventions a year (and only one in each regional area) and maybe five shops with any back issue selection at all.

 

Granted, having a store that's open will create some business and you'll get people dropping by that I can't get with a show. But you also are dealing with a load of people who are used to getting this stuff very cheap on ebay or wherever and I tend to think that even the board members who profess deep interest in a shop like this still see themselves as enjoying the hunt and the bargain and wouldn't necessarily spend that much.

 

I believe it was Dale himself on these boards, who said the guys who sell at 50% off don't last long on the con circuit.

 

Btw, Dale's initial post and thoughts about how to set up a "back issue store" are excellent and very well-thought out. It would be the way to go about it.

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

I mean think about it. Say you purchase 200K from Diamond in a year (which I would guess is something in line with what most stores do). If you are lucky, you are going to sell about 75% of that product.

 

Dale, I don't think you can stay in business selling 75%. I think you have to aim for 90% month after month to have a shot. Stores are struggling, there's no question.

 

I think your concept can work if it's a Serendipity type operation like I mentioned in the other thread. A business that is all about mail order but has the bonus of some retail traffic, for both buying and selling.

 

One of the reasons I think that stores stopped carrying back issues is that the space to display them got to be too much.

 

If you had a store that was remote for cheap rent and only selling back issues, I have a feeling that some weekdays you would get five people walking in. And be out hundreds in rent and staff costs.

 

Dealing with varied back issues takes a ton of time. The supplies cost eats into the profit too.

[Dale Roberts]

Dale. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I have a serious question.

 

When you say things like "Everything priced at a level to sell". Do you actually mean that?

 

I mean, if you have a book that books for $100 in Overstreet. What would you ask for it? Just curious.

 

That is going to depend entirely upon the book. If it is an Amazing Spider-man #86, the price is going to be higher than if it is Marvel Two in One #1. I would pretty much base it on what the market would bear.

 

IMO, priced to sell means like 30-35 bucks. Priced to sell "eventually" probably means like 50-70 bucks. Do you start it out near Overstreet and lower it as it doesn't sell? Like most stores do already. Do you start it out at or above guide, then have a so called "Thanksgiving Day Sale"? Or do you price it slightly above guide, and tell potential customers that it is "hot" and always goes for over guide?

 

Again, this depend entirely upon the book. My experience, the only 1965 - 1970 Silver Age books which sell well at (strictly graded) guide regardless of grade are Amazing Spider-mans. To use the example someone else used a few posts back, Thor #150 VG - $14. That sounds ridiculous to me. That is a $5.00 book in the store I am talking about. Just to give you some other examples, I would be looking at running books such as Amazing Spider-man #152 - 200 in about the $3.00 range for Fine - F/VF, and maybe $5.00 for VFs.

 

So. Let's just say that you have a business like you described and you have eight NM+ copies of Secret Wars #8's. What would you ask for them in this business?

 

GPA (based on books actually slabbed) is somewhere around 42 bucks for a 9.6. The ComicsPriceGuide.com also has a raw price for a 9.6 as 42 bucks. I don't know what the current Overstreet price is, but you probably do.

 

So. What would you ask for a NM+ Secret Wars #8, in the business you are talking about?

 

Lets give you a more realistic scenario. I own somewhere around 50 copies of Secret Wars #8 right now. I would probably pre-screen them for 9.8s, and sell the rest at $10 - 20 depending upon grade. But I would not put them all out at once. in fact only a couple at a time.

 

I personally think that most comic shops that "go under", go under because they don't understand the flow of money needed in a business. They simply can't see the forest for the trees. Four bucks for a book that has been sitting in your box, even if it guides for forty bucks, is better than a forty dollar book just sitting there.

 

This is where the internet comes in. Ideally, I would run all books through the store for a month or so. If it is the right $40.00 book (say a NM #98), it would probably sell. If it is a VF copy of Amazing Spider-man #78, it might or might not(odds are better that it will if you grade it very tightly). There would certainly be a couple of keys to consider, sufficient capital, and sufficient exposure of the book. If you have enough $40.00 books which are either very disable or are priced to move(say a $70.00 Thor for $40.00), you will have plenty of cash flow.

 

But, I am one who thinks that just about ALL comic books are way over-valued. I do understand that they are collectibles and worth exactly what you can get for them. No more and no less. But what I don't understand is the concept of the "passage of time" in pursuit of that price. There has to be a constant flow of money to keep a business going. Keepin a Secret Wars 8 in your box for sale for a year, at 35 bucks, just can't be a good thing. Even if youeventually sell it for 30 bucks.

 

The problem with your concept of selling $40.00 books for $4.00 is that you can't maintain inventory that anyone wants. There is certainly a balance that can be had. I guarantee you would find more in the store I am proposing than any other store you have ever been in.

 

Would it have been better to sell it the first week that you had it, for 15 bucks and make one of your customers happy, or would it have been best to hold out for the 35 bucks for a year?

 

If you are still talking about a Secrets Wars #8, I would have sold 35 copies that year for 10 - 20.00 dollars.

 

I'm just asking. I have never owned a business.

 

I have. And not only that, I have worked in stores, worked with stores, have had very good friends who own stores, have talked to countless dealers about the problems with their stores, talked to a few dealers about how well their stores are doing, and have looked at the way many, many stores have done things from a business point of view. I also have bought store overstock from many stores and I know what won't sell and what will.

[jools&jim]

 

I've already mentioned vinyl record stores making a go of it with essentially this same business model. But how about antiquarian book shops? They don't sell any new products, the ones I know of aren't in the finest neighborhoods, they don't cater to the Barnes and Noble crowd, and yet there are several here in Baltimore which have been in business for decades...

[HOTFLIPS]

Just my thoughts on this.

 

I think as others say on here that a strictly back issue shop would not work for the fact that there simply wouldn't be much foot traffic to pay the overhead. With the Internet it just makes it that much more difficult.

 

That being said, when you have respectable dealers, such as yourself Dale, Ricky Evans, Harley Yee, Bob Storms, etc. etc., its like having a local comic shop at the click of a button.

 

Most of the respected dealers have a return policy, if you don't agree with grading, restoration, or anything. Plus, when you have a book that people want, they check your site and boom!! they buy it. There is no constant waiting for that particular store to have the back issue he or she might want.

 

Some people say it would have to be set up in a big city. well, I look at the convention circuit as like having a roving comic shop where the back issue collectors can go to find what they need (and supplies!!).

 

Just my thoughts, now back to your regularly scheduled programming,

 

Jeff

[sckao]

RE: Vinyl stores

 

There's something to be said for starting 20-30 years earlier... You may be in a rent controlled area. Your rent may be lower than someone starting out new. You didn't compete with the Internet. You may have amassed considerable inventory (new and old) over the years.

 

You now have steady clientele.

 

 

 

 

 

[jools&jim]

 

Also, doesn't Gary Dolgoff (sort of) do this with his "by appointment only" warehouse visits? Of course I know that's not his only source of income, and it's certainly not the same thing as a retail store front. But without selling new books, etc., maybe that's about as close as its possible to get to what Dale is talking about without going under...

[HouseofComics.Com]

I've already mentioned vinyl record stores making a go of it with essentially this same business model. But how about antiquarian book shops? They don't sell any new products, the ones I know of aren't in the finest neighborhoods, they don't cater to the Barnes and Noble crowd, and yet there are several here in Baltimore which have been in business for decades...

 

Perhaps the difference is that there are more readers or more fans of old records than back issue comics? Many of them are actually playing the records, so they get the item plus get good use out of it, whereas the back issues we all end up reading and looking at the book less than once a year, typically.

 

But I suspect that many of these stores are only surviving because they are doing mail order.

 

What I meant before about space for back issues is that in the early 80s you only had to deal with fewer than 250 issues of ASM. Now there are 600. And 500 of those are nostalgic for some portion of your base, you are now dealing with a lot more stuff.

[BrianR]

So, the consensus is that everybody would like to shop there, but many people don't think it would survive???

 

Lets ask this question from the other direction then? If new books are the way to go, why don't comic stores make money. With the exception of only the biggest stores (like Richards), all I hear are store owners saying how bad new issues are, how much they pay Diamond and how little they get in return.

 

I mean think about it. Say you purchase 200K from Diamond in a year (which I would guess is something in line with what most stores do). If you are lucky, you are going to sell about 75% of that product. The comics you are probably going to about double your money on, but you are not going to have complete sell through, so alot of your profit is sitting there in product (that all your customers already have a copy of). If you do have closer to complete sell through, your business can never grow, because you don't have any product left. Not to mention, that there is another store right down the block that carries the EXACT same product, and they are probably discounting it to beat your price. And Midtown comics is offering 40% off to anybody that wants it, and will ship to your home.

 

Also, items like statues, t-shirts, etc, the discount sucks, so you have to sell 2 of 3 statues to break even.

 

Some of the ideas I've seen including the Comic Shop I worked at in the early 90's were. Cheap video rentals of anime and comic related movies. Monthly signings, etc by local artists, have a small convience type section in the store, Soda, candy, etc, bought cheap at places like costco and sold cheap to bring kids in. The last LCS had a section with a flat screen TV with a Wii( you can used a playstation x-box whatever) which he "rented" out to the kids by the hour. These brought in kids that may not hang out at a comic shop in and in turn bought product. I've seen LCS donate books to local schools and in turn with sticker placement etc advertised their store.

 

An idea I always wanted to see done at a LCS and would bring parents and kids in is a Real life Hero Day. This would entail bringing in local Firefighters, Police, Military personnel with their equipment teach kids safety while at the same time promoting your store.

[jools&jim]

RE: Vinyl stores

 

There's something to be said for starting 20-30 years earlier... You may be in a rent controlled area. Your rent may be lower than someone starting out new. You didn't compete with the Internet. You may have amassed considerable inventory (new and old) over the years.

 

You now have steady clientele.

 

 

Good points. There are a few start-ups run by younger guys in the Lancaster, PA area right now, but time will tell if they can hold it together or not...

[conditionfreak]

Dale. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I have a serious question.

 

When you say things like "Everything priced at a level to sell". Do you actually mean that?

 

I mean, if you have a book that books for $100 in Overstreet. What would you ask for it? Just curious.

 

That is going to depend entirely upon the book. If it is an Amazing Spider-man #86, the price is going to be higher than if it is Marvel Two in One #1. I would pretty much base it on what the market would bear.

 

IMO, priced to sell means like 30-35 bucks. Priced to sell "eventually" probably means like 50-70 bucks. Do you start it out near Overstreet and lower it as it doesn't sell? Like most stores do already. Do you start it out at or above guide, then have a so called "Thanksgiving Day Sale"? Or do you price it slightly above guide, and tell potential customers that it is "hot" and always goes for over guide?

 

Again, this depend entirely upon the book. My experience, the only 1965 - 1970 Silver Age books which sell well at (strictly graded) guide regardless of grade are Amazing Spider-mans. To use the example someone else used a few posts back, Thor #150 VG - $14. That sounds ridiculous to me. That is a $5.00 book in the store I am talking about. Just to give you some other examples, I would be looking at running books such as Amazing Spider-man #152 - 200 in about the $3.00 range for Fine - F/VF, and maybe $5.00 for VFs.

 

So. Let's just say that you have a business like you described and you have eight NM+ copies of Secret Wars #8's. What would you ask for them in this business?

 

GPA (based on books actually slabbed) is somewhere around 42 bucks for a 9.6. The ComicsPriceGuide.com also has a raw price for a 9.6 as 42 bucks. I don't know what the current Overstreet price is, but you probably do.

 

So. What would you ask for a NM+ Secret Wars #8, in the business you are talking about?

 

Lets give you a more realistic scenario. I own somewhere around 50 copies of Secret Wars #8 right now. I would probably pre-screen them for 9.8s, and sell the rest at $10 - 20 depending upon grade. But I would not put them all out at once. in fact only a couple at a time.

 

I personally think that most comic shops that "go under", go under because they don't understand the flow of money needed in a business. They simply can't see the forest for the trees. Four bucks for a book that has been sitting in your box, even if it guides for forty bucks, is better than a forty dollar book just sitting there.

 

This is where the internet comes in. Ideally, I would run all books through the store for a month or so. If it is the right $40.00 book (say a NM #98), it would probably sell. If it is a VF copy of Amazing Spider-man #78, it might or might not(odds are better that it will if you grade it very tightly). There would certainly be a couple of keys to consider, sufficient capital, and sufficient exposure of the book. If you have enough $40.00 books which are either very disable or are priced to move(say a $70.00 Thor for $40.00), you will have plenty of cash flow.

 

But, I am one who thinks that just about ALL comic books are way over-valued. I do understand that they are collectibles and worth exactly what you can get for them. No more and no less. But what I don't understand is the concept of the "passage of time" in pursuit of that price. There has to be a constant flow of money to keep a business going. Keepin a Secret Wars 8 in your box for sale for a year, at 35 bucks, just can't be a good thing. Even if youeventually sell it for 30 bucks.

 

The problem with your concept of selling $40.00 books for $4.00 is that you can't maintain inventory that anyone wants. There is certainly a balance that can be had. I guarantee you would find more in the store I am proposing than any other store you have ever been in.

 

Would it have been better to sell it the first week that you had it, for 15 bucks and make one of your customers happy, or would it have been best to hold out for the 35 bucks for a year?

 

If you are still talking about a Secrets Wars #8, I would have sold 35 copies that year for 10 - 20.00 dollars.

 

I'm just asking. I have never owned a business.

 

I have. And not only that, I have worked in stores, worked with stores, have had very good friends who own stores, have talked to countless dealers about the problems with their stores, talked to a few dealers about how well their stores are doing, and have looked at the way many, many stores have done things from a business point of view. I also have bought store overstock from many stores and I know what won't sell and what will.

 

Thanks for the enlightment from someone with experience. I do however, think that some things were addressed differently than I asked. For instance, the SW 8's I mentioned, were all NM+'s. I am assuming from your answer that you would be sending any 9.8's to CGC and selling them, for what? Going rate or higher?

 

You mention selling the less than 9.8's from 10 to 20, which is in line with my 15 example for 9.6's (sort of).

 

Nevertheless. Thanks for the response.

[chrisco37]

So. Let's just say that you have a business like you described and you have eight NM+ copies of Secret Wars #8's. What would you ask for them in this business?

 

GPA (based on books actually slabbed) is somewhere around 42 bucks for a 9.6. The ComicsPriceGuide.com also has a raw price for a 9.6 as 42 bucks. I don't know what the current Overstreet price is, but you probably do.

 

So. What would you ask for a NM+ Secret Wars #8, in the business you are talking about?

 

That's a great question. And, "priced to sell" for HG Silver Age, what is that? OSPG? Under GPA? How much under?

 

Say you've got an ASM #122 (a book that can always sell) in true NM. Are you going to price it at OS (where it's sure to move) or is it going to be priced just under GPA for a slabbed one?

 

The answer is probably neither. You're going to slab it and put it up on CL as the number of actual buyers in the store area with $500+ for that particular book will be very limited.

 

What about a Neal Adams book? Will a Batman #234 9.4 be priced at alltime GPA high $800+ or will it be "priced to sell" (say, GPA low from 2009 - $455).

 

 

 

 

 

[sckao]

I don't think the intent is to have a firesale...

 

The comics that will move for higher prices will probably be online. It's the mid-grades he's talking about. (It's an outlet to dump books at a reasonable price.. and a place to take in new collections.)

 

 

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

Also, doesn't Gary Dolgoff (sort of) do this with his "by appointment only" warehouse visits? Of course I know that's not his only source of income, and it's certainly not the same thing as a retail store front. But without selling new books, etc., maybe that's about as close as its possible to get to what Dale is talking about without going under...

 

 

Yeah, kind of, but have you seen Dolgoffs stock, it is very poorly kept, hardly in any kind of order, and looks like garbage. Nothing against Gary, but his stuff looks like a comic dealer from the 1970s, in fact, I sure some of the bags and boards and boxes he is using are from the 1970s. There is something to be said for presentation, cleanliness and ease of shopping. Obviously, it works for him on some level, but I would never allow my stuff to look like that.