ComicLink 'Raw'

[Red Hook]

I hope not, I did not retouch any pixels or move any around. I did sit on top of my hard drive for 30 minutes in an attempt to press it, but the fact that it was already slabbed made it difficult!

 

 

Brad

 

 

[blazingbob]

The upper left corner clearly throws it out of the 9.4 grade. Whenever I see a crease that size that breaks or doesn't break color I suspect that CGC "could" grade it 8.5 or lower depending on the rest of the defects. However, the JIM #83 Diamond Run CGC VF/NM 9.0 copy I sold had a corner crease that broke color. However the rest of the book was 9.4. If you are buying raw and it arrives the "knowledge" of CGC grading goes a long way to do the risk/reward factor of sending it in to be graded. This one if brought to me would have been given the "thumbs down" for getting a CGC 9.4.

 

 

[CompleteRunComics]

 

I'm going to have to take a 180 degree stance on this from the majority of other posters.

 

My ability to grade books to date is inadequate. I rely on the "experts" and their grading to purchase raw books. There's enough funky defects on 9.4's to easily doubt oneself and lean toward the "professional's" grade of the book purchased. This is where the return policy comes in.

 

If CGC, the authority, grades it an 8.5, it's give the customer back their money time regardless of how many days have passed (within reason as we're all aware of turn times).

 

I thought Comic Link had the book in their possession and examined each book to some degree? Is their return policy from date of sale or date shipment is received?

 

raw books eesh

 

CRC

[burntboy]

Drice I feel your pain! I had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a different dealer. Although it wasn't an issue on the return. Just the slabbed grade vs. the raw grade proved off by at least 2 grade levels for the two books I had purchased. That probably was the last time I bought a raw HG.

 

After seeing the board post yesterday about Josh's recent additions I checked it out. There were several books that interested me. Yet they were all raw. With neither a scan or page quality provided. I called Josh to ask if a scan could be provided. He said he'd see what he could do but it didn't sound like it would be pursued much IMO. His recommendation was to buy the book and send it back within the 6-day return window if there was a problem. It's the old toss-up on taking a chance on finding a raw gem. Or, as it usually seems to end up, wasting time and $ having to ship books back that don't cut it.

 

Anyone else bothered by the lack of scans or page quality comments on these raw listings? I understand that Josh can't provide what he doesn't have but come on.

 

i had the same reaction and posted my opinion elsewhere. believe i referred to this as buying "a-pig-in-a-poke"

[fantastic_four]

As someone else noted, their raw books are not scanned for review first, you have to purchase and then go through the whole return business with them if you are not happy. Seems like Josh could take some steps to firm this up - don't you think?

 

He could, but then he'd end up having less raw books. I would imagine most of those raw books are consigned by other dealers and not in his possession, and if the dealer doesn't send him a scan, there's not much he can do. If he made scans a requirement, I'm sure many dealers simply wouldn't use ComicLink at all since few want to deal with scanning their books.

[sterlingcomics]

I don't blame Josh. He is only receiving a 10% commission. Looking at the book will take too much time and hurt the profit margins. You should use our service: Here are the rates:

 

a) 10% for a guarenteed grade. For that nominal fee I will guarentee that you will receive a grade.

b) 10% charge to count the pages. For annuals add an extra 1% per page.

c) 2% for each staple check. Max 3. I will inspect a fourth or fifth for No add'l charge.

d) 8% to insure that no coupons are missing. The charge will be increased to 15% if I find any missing. Hey, I'm saving you money. You can return the book and receive a full refund (assuming you can do it in the allotted time).

e) 20% to look under the microscope for transverse creases. Someone has to pay for the high tech equipment.

f) 10% handling. The better the book is packed the longer it will take to cut through the box without damaging the book.

g) 6% weighing. Most graders check for trim size. We check the weight of the book. This is a new feature that gives us the edge on most.

h)35% restoration check. Yes the fee is high but if you take all our services we will buy the book back from you at the price you paid less our fees.

 

Don't hesitate to use us. To date no one has complained about our service only our prices.

 

Wow, you are the safer, more cost effective to eBay I've been looking for!

[acesilver]

Although it wasn't an issue on the return. Just the slabbed grade vs. the raw grade proved off by at least 2 grade levels for the two books I had purchased. That probably was the last time I bought a raw HG.

 

Most of the Forum members are very tight graders, and have enough submissions under their belts to be able to seperate a 9.0 from a 9.2 from a 9.4. You can always buy raw from us.

 

Yeah, right!

[jbud73]

Ok now that we have establish that Comic Link's raw auctions are for consigned books that he has not actually even seen, and yet posts a grade on his auction site, therefore tying the stated grade to his business and therefore his reputation?

 

Here again my comic collecting brethern is a seller who is positioning himself in the best possible way so as to avoid taking responsibility while still reaping the rewards of business. For example a Raw book gets posted on CL with a stated grade of 9.4, the book comes in and its an 8.5, or at least not a 9.4. I can understand you absloving CL in the pre-buying stage, as he doesnt have the book, but how about when he receives and ships, does he not have a responsibility to his customers to ensure that the grade is as stated. Here's the tricky part - NO HE DOESNT And WHY? you ask? Becasue he drums up a 6-day return policy to skate around the issue and thereby pass responsibility on to the BUYER. So Drice, when you say you have only bought from reputable dealers - what you fail to realize is that the 6-day return policy, the way CL has set up his business practise in this case allows him to NOT STAKE HIS REPUTATION TO RAW BOOKS. That is the only only logical conclusion I can come to with the evidence presented.

 

So as has been stated here "if its not worth CL's time to look at Raw Books and confirm there grade for his 10% cut" then it should be our position as buyers NOT TO purchase raw off comic link for our 100% investment.

 

If you do purchase raw books on CL then it falls to your grading ability,as the terms of the auction dictate that CGC or Comic Link's reputation will NOT be a factor in the overall outcome......

[FFB]

What if Josh's personal grading criteria are tougher than the buyer's and seller's? I don't know that I'd want Josh acting as grade arbiter on an auction that I won. I'd rather see the book for myself and determine the grade on my own. A week for returns seems sufficient for that.

 

Ok now that we have establish that Comic Link's raw auctions are for consigned books that he has not actually even seen, and yet posts a grade on his auction site, therefore tying the stated grade to his business and therefore his reputation?

 

Here again my comic collecting brethern is a seller who is positioning himself in the best possible way so as to avoid taking responsibility while still reaping the rewards of business. For example a Raw book gets posted on CL with a stated grade of 9.4, the book comes in and its an 8.5, or at least not a 9.4. I can understand you absloving CL in the pre-buying stage, as he doesnt have the book, but how about when he receives and ships, does he not have a responsibility to his customers to ensure that the grade is as stated. Here's the tricky part - NO HE DOESNT And WHY? you ask? Becasue he drums up a 6-day return policy to skate around the issue and thereby pass responsibility on to the BUYER. So Drice, when you say you have only bought from reputable dealers - what you fail to realize is that the 6-day return policy, the way CL has set up his business practise in this case allows him to NOT STAKE HIS REPUTATION TO RAW BOOKS. That is the only only logical conclusion I can come to with the evidence presented.

 

So as has been stated here "if its not worth CL's time to look at Raw Books and confirm there grade for his 10% cut" then it should be our position as buyers NOT TO purchase raw off comic link for our 100% investment.

 

If you do purchase raw books on CL then it falls to your grading ability,as the terms of the auction dictate that CGC or Comic Link's reputation will NOT be a factor in the overall outcome......

[jkrk]

Ok, it's time to get a bit serious. Here is the bottom line. On raw books comic link is basically operating in the same fashion as E-Bay but is charging 10% to the buyer rather than 3% to the seller.

Once the buyers recognize that the deck is stacked against them on CL as well, CL will only be able to sell raw books to newbies and the blind.

[drbanner]

CL's policies allow sellers "...that know how to grade..." to sell raw books they grade themselves, Josh doesn't grade them. Unfortunately, the sellers get to decide whether they can grade or not!!

 

In the end, it puts the task of grading on the buyer, so if you're uncomfortable with your own grading skills I wouldn't bother bidding on any raw books. And unfortunately, their shipping charge ($10?) bumps the risk:reward ratio way up there on cheaper books...$10 to get it to you, at least $5 to get it back to them, so you're in it for $15 minimum if you want to return a book.

 

 

[jkrk]

I think you're missing my point. I'm not blaming Josh for not grading. I'm simply saying I can get the same service on E-Bay without paying a 10% fee including a return policy.

[jbud73]

What if Josh's personal grading criteria are tougher than the buyer's and seller's? I don't know that I'd want Josh acting as grade arbiter on an auction that I won. I'd rather see the book for myself and determine the grade on my own. A week for returns seems sufficient for that.

 

I think that the point is moot as the positions articulated would indicate that Josh is not grading the books - in fact he is posting raw grades up sight unseen in certain instances if I am correct in that assumption.. Yes I made exactly that point to Drice as well, that YOU have 6 days. I think in this case Drice may have misinterpreted what he was entilted to under the 6-day guarantee and possibly wrongly assumed that CL (Josh) was grading the books.

 

Finally, If Comic Link was indeed a tough grader and in fact grading the raw books up for auction on his site - we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we? Jrkrk's point is well made that Comic Link is a clearing house and charges the seller 10%, as opposed to 3% like Ebay

 

 

So I will ask you - would you rather buy Raw off Comic Link which in this case has seen suspect grading, or a reputable dealer off Ebay (I know there are so few - but I have been pleased with books off Board Memebers - if you stay long enough you will probably figure out who the good ones are. Looks like No Contest in this case.

[drbanner]

Sorry...I was responding in general to the various posts in the thread and yours just happened to be the last in line. I agree with you on the ebay analogy (same scenario, more $$)!!

[burntboy]

What if Josh's personal grading criteria are tougher than the buyer's and seller's? I don't know that I'd want Josh acting as grade arbiter on an auction that I won. I'd rather see the book for myself and determine the grade on my own. A week for returns seems sufficient for that.

 

I think that the point is moot as the positions articulated would indicate that Josh is not grading the books - in fact he is posting raw grades up sight unseen in certain instances if I am correct in that assumption.. Yes I made exactly that point to Drice as well, that YOU have 6 days. I think in this case Drice may have misinterpreted what he was entilted to under the 6-day guarantee and possibly wrongly assumed that CL (Josh) was grading the books.

 

Finally, If Comic Link was indeed a tough grader and in fact grading the raw books up for auction on his site - we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we? Jrkrk's point is well made that Comic Link is a clearing house and charges the buyer 10% rather than the seller 3% like Ebay, hmmm but wait I bet CL dings the consigner as well don't you - hes taking a page out of the Heritage business book there.

 

So I will ask you - would you rather buy Raw off Comic Link, with a 10% BP and suspect grading, or a reputable dealer off Ebay (I know there are so few - but I have been pleased with books off Board Memebers - if you stay long enough you will probably figure out who the good ones are. Looks like No Contest in this case.

 

thanks for articulating my feelings on this issue so well.

 

your e-bay analogy is very good. in this particular instance (raw books/highly graded/multiple of guide prices/ no Pics/no assurances other than a 6 day window, an amateur doesn't stand a chance. oh, i almost forgot the most important part - on e-bay at least you can decide if you know who you're dealing with!! here, even the seller is a mystery. which one of the board members would buy a book on e-bay under these circumstances???

 

i'm back to - "it's like buying a pig-in-a-poke"...........

[jbud73]

Well I can't take credit for the Ebay analogy that was jkrk's but I definitely agree with it. Now on to scan Donut and Banner auctions ooops nope I didnt say that, nothing to see there, they cant grade worth a lick. Me and my big .........

[cd4ever]

Well, I know this. I just bought a fairly pricey (for me) book from CL, raw, no scan. Josh did tel me that he verifies the grade listed before shipping it out. So presumably, it the advertised 9.0 book was really 8.0, he would tell the buyer this. Although, you're right, we really have no idea of his grading strictness. I took a bit of a gamble with my purchase but it was something I would have to wait a long time to find on ebay. I guess I'll know in a few days.

[LordRahl]

10% rather than the seller 3% like Ebay, hmmm but wait I bet CL dings the consigner as well don't you - hes taking a page out of the Heritage business book there.

 

What are you talking about? Comiclink does NOT have a buyer premium. The price listed is the price the buyer pays. Only the seller takes a 10% hit. So I don't see how this is any worse than Ebay. 95% of the books I buy on Ebay are overgraded but it's generally a much bigger hassle to get a refund. At least with CL you know you'll get a refund.

[OldGuy]

Josh did tel me that he verifies the grade listed before shipping it out. So presumably, it the advertised 9.0 book was really 8.0, he would tell the buyer this. Although, you're right, we really have no idea of his grading strictness.

 

9.4 = 8.5

 

Or maybe now we do?

[FFB]

What if Josh's personal grading criteria are tougher than the buyer's and seller's? I don't know that I'd want Josh acting as grade arbiter on an auction that I won. I'd rather see the book for myself and determine the grade on my own. A week for returns seems sufficient for that.

 

I think that the point is moot as the positions articulated would indicate that Josh is not grading the books - in fact he is posting raw grades up sight unseen in certain instances if I am correct in that assumption.. Yes I made exactly that point to Drice as well, that YOU have 6 days. I think in this case Drice may have misinterpreted what he was entilted to under the 6-day guarantee and possibly wrongly assumed that CL (Josh) was grading the books.

 

I was responding to a specific issue that your post rhetorically raised, which was whether, when he receives the sold book from the seller, Josh had a responsibility to grade the books or not prior to passing the book along to the buyer. I was not suggesting that he WAS grading them as they came in, but Comiclink's own information page suggests that Comiclink DOES grade raw books before sending them to the buyer. See: Impartial and Accurate Grading Section of this Link. My point was that I do not think Josh SHOULD be grading the books regardless of what the return policy is. I also don't think this is a moot point.

 

Finally, If Comic Link was indeed a tough grader and in fact grading the raw books up for auction on his site - we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we? Jrkrk's point is well made that Comic Link is a clearing house and charges the buyer 10% rather than the seller 3% like Ebay, hmmm but wait I bet CL dings the consigner as well don't you - hes taking a page out of the Heritage business book there.

 

If Comiclink did routinely grade books that came in and graded them too harshly, you'd see the flip side of what happened. One of the sellers would come on here, talk about how he sold a NM 9.4 copy of some book to a Comiclink buyer, and had Josh say "Sorry, but with this small spine stress, it can't be a NM 9.4, so I'm going to block the sale" or whatever. My point was that Josh shouldn't be in the business of interfering with the buyer and seller when it comes to grading raw books. If the seller doesn't post big scans, buyers shouldn't be buying books from Comiclink. If the book that arrives from the seller doesn't meet the condition stated, then the book should be sent back under the return policy.

 

So I will ask you - would you rather buy Raw off Comic Link, with a 10% BP and suspect grading, or a reputable dealer off Ebay (I know there are so few - but I have been pleased with books off Board Memebers - if you stay long enough you will probably figure out who the good ones are. Looks like No Contest in this case.

 

You have the premium backward. There is a 10% seller's commission. In other words, it is paid by the seller, not the buyer. There is only a 3% buyer's premium if the buyer uses a credit card.