C2E2, March 18-20, 2011, Chicago, IL.

[VintageComics]

Again, I don't want to point fingers regarding who is squeezing who. There is an obvious rivalry between promotors and it's going to take someone stepping up and being "the bigger person" to stop it from growing.

 

I'd like to focus on the positive side of this instead. A better calander year will only mean more money in exhibitor's (and therefore promotor's) pockets because they don't have to choose between events and more possible exposure and access that fans will have at getting to the shows.

 

At some point it would be great if someone was able to co-ordinate something along these lines so that promotors could work together. Heck, things like promotion, advertising etc could even be consolidated to promote all cons.

 

That would be a terrific long term vision that would benefit the hobby.

 

Far fetched, I know, and very out of the ordinary for the average capitalist North American business person, but not impossible and it could be highly profitable.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

Right, but you've been effectively implying that what happened last weekend with C2E2/WWTO was rivalry related, that would require people being "bigger people" and I just don't think that was the case here.

 

I'm trying to suggest that if a regional shows want to be more successful in this environment, they should avoid scheduling their events on the same weekend as the biggest national ones. I understand that regional shows try to grow by announcing their next year's dates right away, but it might be more effective to wait and see what the bigger national shows are doing before they announce these dates, or they should have backup dates ready in case something does happen.

 

I know for a fact that it is much easier to put holds on multiple dates on smaller halls such as Hall D at a facility like the Direct Energy Centre than it is to do the same thing on the biggest halls at McCormick Place in Chicago. When I worked with the DEC years ago they would tell us what was open in the time period we were interested in and we could reschedule to back up dates if there was a need for it.

 

As soon as C2E2 announced their change and my US dealers started balking I would have considered shuffling my date - the problem with this spring is that Emerald City, Megacon and WonderCon are all happening and a lot of those dealers who do drive to shows (or have their stuff shipped for west coast events) would commit to those events as well. Smaller regional shows have the benefit of being more flexible if they choose to be. It's only a minor inconvenience that would lead to greater success, which is a step for the positive growth and environment we all want to see.

[VintageComics]

Right, but you've been effectively implying that what happened last weekend with C2E2/WWTO was rivalry related, that would require people being "bigger people" and I just don't think that was the case here.

 

I'm trying to suggest that if a regional shows want to be more successful in this environment, they should avoid scheduling their events on the same weekend as the biggest national ones. I understand that regional shows try to grow by announcing their next year's dates right away, but it might be more effective to wait and see what the bigger national shows are doing before they announce these dates, or they should have backup dates ready in case something does happen.

 

I know for a fact that it is much easier to put holds on multiple dates on smaller halls such as Hall D at a facility like the Direct Energy Centre than it is to do the same thing on the biggest halls at McCormick Place in Chicago. When I worked with the DEC years ago they would tell us what was open in the time period we were interested in and we could reschedule to back up dates if there was a need for it.

 

As soon as C2E2 announced their change and my US dealers started balking I would have considered shuffling my date - the problem with this spring is that Emerald City, Megacon and WonderCon are all happening and a lot of those dealers who do drive to shows (or have their stuff shipped for west coast events) would commit to those events as well. Smaller regional shows have the benefit of being more flexible if they choose to be. It's only a minor inconvenience that would lead to greater success, which is a step for the positive growth and environment we all want to see.

 

Kevin, once again a great insight and I would have to agree with you.

 

(thumbs u

[BeachBum]

I know when I saw the show schedule late last year for the beginning of this year I was shocked to see 4 of the biggest shows in the space of 5 weekends - Emerald, C2E2, Megacon, Wondercon.

 

I've been warning my Fiancee about the schedule since then, I even bought a calendar and put it in our office so she couldn't come back later and say I'm throwing all these weekends out of town on her at the spare moment. Happy to say she's joining me for two of the three days in San Fran.

 

I agree with Kevin, although there may be some rivalry between promoters I think the actual convention hall availability dictates a lot.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Emerald was mid-March last year, early March this year and now Mar. 30 - Apr. 1 next year. If they could keep a constant weekend I think the show promoters would.

[DinnerB-migration]

 

2012 Mega Con will be February 17th - 19th.

 

[Buck Biggins]

As a newer promoter I agree with Kevin. To maximize the CCE’s attendance I try to not compete with the other regional shows. Just a few weeks ago I reached out to another promoter to see what they were thinking for 2012 so we don’t have conflicting dates.

 

The problem I have (and what Kevin was referring to) is facility availability. Consumer shows for home, garden, beer, travel, baby and outdoors are filling the calendar. To top it off our convention center has a 14 month booking window for consumer shows. Trade shows have an 18 month window. So when month 14 rolls around I have to take what is left while competing with all the other consumer shows for space and dates. I will do all I can to avoid conflict but it is not easy.

 

However, sometimes you do wonder it things are done intentional.

 

[Kevin Boyd]

And then you also have to consider what's happening in your city - are there rallies or bike races, marathons, cancer walks, street festivals, music festivals, etc.on the dates you are looking at that will interfere with the area around the convention center? Do those things affect people's ability to get to or attend your event? Then there are other weekends to avoid - Christmas, Easter and Free Comic Book Day being the weekends everyone stays away from, and because San Diego is such a bottleneck for everyone people generally avoid booking in early July.

 

You need to consider the weather as well --- is your area likely to be buried in snow for four months of the year? Deduct another 12 weekends for that... or is it really humid in the summer... deduct time there... all of a sudden you end up looking at the same windows we see the bottlenecks... late February thru June (minus Easter and FCBD), and August thru to November (minus Thanksgiving).

 

50 US states, 10 Canadian provinces.... that's why I say overlapping is inevitably going to happen. You just have to make sure it's with something on the other side of the country if you can.

[HOTFLIPS]

I agree mostly, but I think i would add WWPhilly and the boston comic con has been growing every year.

[Kevin Boyd]

I'm iffy on Philly, while it was once great the show has been shrinking for years. It's definitely the #2 Wizard show, I'd definitely consider it for 11.

 

Interestingly enough Wizard Philly conflicts date-wise this year with the Calgary Expo (~10K attendance) which is a fantastic event that has been growing for years. I'm helping to present the Joe Shuster Awards there.

 

Boston is growing... not there yet but maybe this year will change things. It reminds me of Baltimore and Emerald City a couple of years ago. The organizers do a great job at attracting guests and it has lots of great growth potential.

[livedog-migration]

As an even newer promoter than Buck, I'll chime in here, too. When I decided to create our show I made a list of all of the national shows and the regional shows that I wanted to watch out for. I made an effort to reach out to the regional promoters close to me to build some type of rapport that would be beneficial for everyone (and so far they've all been great and helpful).

 

To Kevin's point about not only the convention centers booking, but what is going on in your town, our show is a prime example.

 

We had to go with a date the weekend before San Diego. I wanted to avoid competing with some regional shows like Summit City, Gem City and CCE. That knocked out April, June and Sept. Throw in the bigger shows that are within driving distance, you knock our March and August. January, February and December have unpredictable weather, so they were out.

 

May 7 is the Kentucky Derby. It would have been suicide to go in the weeks just before or that weekend. No venue had an opening for the rest of May.

 

That pushed us to July and the only date the venue had open. It's not ideal for someone who likes to travel and attend lots of cons because it is the weekend that runs right up to The Big One. But it is working for us. It might have limited our pool of artists we could draw, but we still put together a great guest list that we have had fantastic response to.

 

The bottom line, for me, was that our show is in an area that doesn't have, and hasn't had, a local show. The people that are attending and have expressed interest wouldn't have been attending SDCC anyway, so now they have something to attend. The artists I've approached, if they couldn't make it because of SDCC, have respectfully declined and asked to be contacted next year. I've only had one artist forcefully question my sanity and after I laid it out like I did above he said, "Well, good luck. Can I send you some stuff for your goodie bags?"

[mamatsch]

My biggest disappointment this year was that, from a comic creator standpoint, the inaugural C2E2 show in 2010 had one of the strongest lineups outside of NYCC and SDCC - it was miles above anything Wizard put together that year. This year, however, the lineup was weak in comparison - Bendis, Ennis, Willingham & Quesada were the top draws, but both Ennis & Willingham were repeats from last year - and in 2010 you had Jim Lee, Alex Ross, Mike Mignola, Jeff Smith, Chris Ware, Bob Layton, David Finch, etc to boot. Dark Horse, DC & Marvel all had huge booths at this show, so not having them bring a larger selection of their A-list talent was a bit depressing.

 

The celebrity guestlist, on the other hand, was fairly decent - a good mix of people from different TV shows (even though, imho, less Ghost Hunters would have been nice), and the autographing area was off to the side from the main convention area which meant no gridlock as people were queuing up. And, thank the baby Jeebus, no Z-list wrestlers anywhere in sight.

 

When all is said & done, I still think this is a better show than WW Chicago - but, after a strong first showing in 2010, this one definitely felt like a (small) step backwards.

 

Overall - my wife and I definitely had a great time at the show this year! Though, I do have to agree with the comments above as well - as far as comics guests it was a bit of a small step backwards and glad we stuck with the regular tickets instead of the VIP we got last year. We'll definitely be back next year and here's hoping year 3 is even better!!!

[Kevin Boyd]

While a 2012 date has not been set for C2E2 yet, Lance Festerman said today in an interview at CBR that: "It will be in the same timeframe -- right around St. Patrick's Day"

 

St. Patrick's Day is on a Saturday next year, which would make it tentatively March 16-18.

 

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=31452

[Ares]

While a 2012 date has not been set for C2E2 yet, Lance Festerman said today in an interview at CBR that: "It will be in the same timeframe -- right around St. Patrick's Day"

 

St. Patrick's Day is on a Friday next year, which would make it tentatively March 17-19.

 

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=31452

Next year is a leap year so St Patrick's is on a Saturday

[Kevin Boyd]

There is some indication online that Megacon 2012 is scheduled for either March 2-4 or February 17-19, but it's likely March 2-4.

 

Emerald City Comic-Con is on March 30-April 1, 2012.

 

We won't know about WonderCon's 2012 dates for a couple of weeks.

[DinnerB-migration]

I agree mostly, but I think i would add WWPhilly and the boston comic con has been growing every year.

 

WW Philly (thumbs u

[DinnerB-migration]

 

 

Why don't promoters consider doing what the Auto Rama does, offer FREE autographs.

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

I'm iffy on Philly, while it was once great the show has been shrinking for years. It's definitely the #2 Wizard show, I'd definitely consider it for 11.

 

Interestingly enough Wizard Philly conflicts date-wise this year with the Calgary Expo (~10K attendance) which is a fantastic event that has been growing for years. I'm helping to present the Joe Shuster Awards there.

 

Boston is growing... not there yet but maybe this year will change things. It reminds me of Baltimore and Emerald City a couple of years ago. The organizers do a great job at attracting guests and it has lots of great growth potential.

 

I agree Kevin. WWPhilly had a significant drop from what it used to be, but the past couple of years has shown steady growth. It is not where it was when it peaked, but slowly getting there.

 

I know the Boston promotors work very hard and i agree it is fast approaching Baltimore and Heroes. I think this is its third different venue because they keep needing more room every year. It also started as a one day show and is now two days.

 

Jeff

[Bomber-Bob]

While a 2012 date has not been set for C2E2 yet, Lance Festerman said today in an interview at CBR that: "It will be in the same timeframe -- right around St. Patrick's Day"

 

St. Patrick's Day is on a Saturday next year, which would make it tentatively March 16-18.

 

 

As a native Chicagoan, I still say the promoters of C2E2 are taking a chance, weather wise, by scheduling in mid-March. This year's weather was pleasant but

we can still get snow in March. I like it better in April but no biggie.

[Mayor006]

I'm iffy on Philly, while it was once great the show has been shrinking for years. It's definitely the #2 Wizard show, I'd definitely consider it for 11.

 

Interestingly enough Wizard Philly conflicts date-wise this year with the Calgary Expo (~10K attendance) which is a fantastic event that has been growing for years. I'm helping to present the Joe Shuster Awards there.

 

Boston is growing... not there yet but maybe this year will change things. It reminds me of Baltimore and Emerald City a couple of years ago. The organizers do a great job at attracting guests and it has lots of great growth potential.

 

Something else that you are leaving out is some of us might actually attend conventions that do not center specifically around comics. You want to go to a convention that is probably bigger than anything short of SDCC or NYCC go to DragonCon sometime. It used to have a HUGE comic related base that dwindled down and is on the rise again. They might not have the book dealers they once had just yet, but they have started attracting the artists again. George Perez is a frequent, J Scott Campbell was there last year, and Adam Hughes goes as a fan.

 

So not only are you competing with trade shows, car shows, home shows and the like you are also competing with other "entertainment" conventions.

[Kevin Boyd]

You are correct, while I don't really care about conventions with little or no comics and I did specifically omit them from consideration as major comic book conventions they are forces to be considered in the event planning business.

 

While Dragon Con is a great show for cosplayers and sci-fi guests, it's not known as being a particularly big comics show these days but yes, it's a big show that I know the people that work on the SciFi and Fantasy elements of Fan Expo DO take into consideration when planning - it is usually the Labour Day weekend.

 

Things like Pax East and West, Star Wars Celebration, etc. are all big entertainment shows.

 

I also excluded Arts Festivals without mainstream comics focus and dealers such as MOCCA, APE, SPX, TCAF and the like, but they are out there as well.

 

Entertainment conventions can extend to video games, book fairs, toy shows, card shows, wrestling shows, etc. Though I think the further away from comics they are the less of a concern when planning a great comics show.