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Tony Moore's Walking Dead Post TV Show OA asking prices are....

Started by NewWorldOrder,

550 posts in this topic

NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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It's pretty obvious that the price hike is due to the show, not some sentimental reason. Would it be better if he just came out and said that? Yeah, probably. Is it worth making a big stink about it? Probably not. But it sure does make for some good reading.

 

 

 

The problem is, that's the perception the OP has given everyone and that's NOT what Tony Moore actually said.

 

This is what he said:

 

John,

Tony here.

 

Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. While these prices may be distasteful to you, the market elsewhere is bearing them out. Above all, the fact is, these pages are very dear to me personally, and the price tag is what it takes to get me to allow them to leave my personal possession. I'll be just as happy if they sit here until the end of time.

 

-T

 

To understand this email, it would have helped to know what the OP actually said to Tony Moore to make him say that. That email was omitted, is still omitted I believe. Why would that be?

 

Tony doesn't say the increase the price increase is due to sentimental reasons, he said that he loves the pages and this is what it will take to let them go. They've always been priced at double or more of what most people would ever pay. The price increase was brought on by the drastically increased number of requests to buy artwork, artwork they wanted to try and keep.

 

If someone is trying to price something intentionally high, high enough that if someone buys it the seller will have no regrets and would be silly not to take that amount, then they have to take into account the demand for their art and what perceived market value would be.

 

 

Given that people who KNEW of those original prices, and weren't interested 2 weeks ago at those original prices. were now interested in buying the pages at those prices (the OP ADMITS AS MUCH) if Tony really wanted to keep them for anything less than stupid money the price had to go up. That's pretty common amongst artists. They all have series, or characters, or specific pages they would prefer to keep and not sell unless someone overwhelms them dollar wise.

 

I can name a dozen artists who have done the same.

 

The difference is, none of those artists were provoked into sending an email like this with an earlier email that was insulting and derogatory. The OP has already admitted he got heated in the email that preceded this one and that he threw shots at Tony's artistic standing. Then he posted this email, I am guessing, to make Tony look bad...omitting the email he sent Tony that elicited this response.

 

That's pretty unfair, and it's given the general public the wrong idea about Tony.

 

Personally, I think Tony was pretty restrained in his response. If someone were to come to me about what a big fan there were of mine and how much they liked my work only to come back and insult me in the next email, because they didn't like the price,I would probably have lost it on them. I would have thought they were blowing smoke up my and lying to me about respecting my artwork when their next breath was tearing me down.

 

 

 

I really think you are missing the point here.

 

My email response while definitely a little insulting was also not the reason I even started this thread. Yea I said to him your not Jack Kirby, so your prices are a way over priced. That's my opinion and i said it. Moore actually did forward the email to a couple boardies who he knows, who are actually my friends as well. All said the same thing to me which was I can see John why you were ticked off, and why Tony felt insulted as well. Which makes sense to me.

 

Tony's response was definitely a firing back back, but you never heard me say anything anywhere that his response was unwarranted or not called for. I understood when he said the "nobody is holding a guy to your head" comment as he way of telling me how he felt, which is fine. Honestly I would say the same thing back, but once again the part that really made me shake my head was:

 

Above all, the fact is, these pages are very dear to me personally, and the price tag is what it takes to get me to allow them to leave my personal possession. I'll be just as happy if they sit here until the end of time.

 

If he didn't say this I would have just shaken my head at the prices and moved on. So whether there was insults or not fired back and forth has nothing to do with anything on his stance of the post-TV prices, and the spam soliciting email wasting many Walking Dead fans time, and asking those kind of prices is just as insulting from the get go.

 

Of course I understand these pages would be personal to any artist, but to say that after you jacked the prices up 500% after 10/31/2010, and still hide behind a personal stance is totally a cop-out. That's the utter bull I have a big problem with.

 

The pieces were obviously personal prior to the show airing, but now have since gone up 500% in price.

 

If something is so personal then no dollar amount can replace such personal items, but to send out a spam soliciting email to announce to the world that his Walking Dead Original art is up for sale in which those same pages were a fraction of the cost not that long ago tells me one thing.

 

The items are for sale, and the timing was too capitalize on the TV Show hype so they can really use the the proverbial hammer price on each page so they can make the most amount of money possible. Which is totally fine and there right to do so. (thumbs u

 

It also have my right to call that personal stance stance the way I see it an utter cop-out to the truth. They were personal at much less money prior to the show airing so just tell me the truth you want to cash in while you can. No big deal. (shrug)

 

Of course I have the opinion there is no justification to ask such prices cause in my opinion he hasn't done enough comic book work to ask those prices unless he an established modern artist like Jim Lee or Todd McFarlane, etc...

 

If he doesn't want to sell them then just don't sell them it will come off better to your fans rather than sending them that soliciting email.

 

I still think Tony does great work, and will continue to wish him the best of luck, heck if he sells all his work for those prices then more power to him. :acclaim:

 

Either way I am done with this thread whether anyone agrees or disagrees it was interesting too see everyone's view points.

 

take care,

 

 

 

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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And we're allowed to call bull on your ability to read an artist's mind.

 

Dan

 

Dan,

 

Absolutely that is your right as well. (thumbs u

 

I guess my only question to you is then in your opinion why did a spam soliciting email go out to the general public for sale of such pieces of artwork to begin with if he has really no intention of selling the pieces? (shrug)

 

John

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SPDREYCER

SPDREYCER

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It's pretty obvious that the price hike is due to the show, not some sentimental reason. Would it be better if he just came out and said that? Yeah, probably. Is it worth making a big stink about it? Probably not. But it sure does make for some good reading.

 

 

 

The problem is, that's the perception the OP has given everyone and that's NOT what Tony Moore actually said.

 

This is what he said:

 

John,

Tony here.

 

Nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it. While these prices may be distasteful to you, the market elsewhere is bearing them out. Above all, the fact is, these pages are very dear to me personally, and the price tag is what it takes to get me to allow them to leave my personal possession. I'll be just as happy if they sit here until the end of time.

 

-T

 

To understand this email, it would have helped to know what the OP actually said to Tony Moore to make him say that. That email was omitted, is still omitted I believe. Why would that be?

 

Tony doesn't say the increase the price increase is due to sentimental reasons, he said that he loves the pages and this is what it will take to let them go. They've always been priced at double or more of what most people would ever pay. The price increase was brought on by the drastically increased number of requests to buy artwork, artwork they wanted to try and keep.

 

If someone is trying to price something intentionally high, high enough that if someone buys it the seller will have no regrets and would be silly not to take that amount, then they have to take into account the demand for their art and what perceived market value would be.

 

 

Given that people who KNEW of those original prices, and weren't interested 2 weeks ago at those original prices. were now interested in buying the pages at those prices (the OP ADMITS AS MUCH) if Tony really wanted to keep them for anything less than stupid money the price had to go up. That's pretty common amongst artists. They all have series, or characters, or specific pages they would prefer to keep and not sell unless someone overwhelms them dollar wise.

 

I can name a dozen artists who have done the same.

 

The difference is, none of those artists were provoked into sending an email like this with an earlier email that was insulting and derogatory. The OP has already admitted he got heated in the email that preceded this one and that he threw shots at Tony's artistic standing. Then he posted this email, I am guessing, to make Tony look bad...omitting the email he sent Tony that elicited this response.

 

That's pretty unfair, and it's given the general public the wrong idea about Tony.

 

Personally, I think Tony was pretty restrained in his response. If someone were to come to me about what a big fan there were of mine and how much they liked my work only to come back and insult me in the next email, because they didn't like the price,I would probably have lost it on them. I would have thought they were blowing smoke up my and lying to me about respecting my artwork when their next breath was tearing me down.

 

 

 

"nobody is holding a guy to your head"

 

lolI love it when you get all fustrated John :signfunny:lol

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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I think Gene said it best IMO.

 

 

Dude, they're his pages. He can charge whatever he wants for them. You can buy them, or not. Why would you be upset about it unless you maybe you were interested in picking up pieces that you originally thought were too high, and flipping them for a profit now that the demand is up. Just a guess on my part.

 

Walking Dead is hotter than hell right now and being a co-creator, has every right to cash in on it in any way he sees fit. If anyone makes a buck off the pages, he damn well should be the one to do it.

 

 

I agree that he has a right to charge whatever he wants for the pages, but, at these prices, he just wasted the time of John and anyone else who took the time to browse the listings and e-mail for prices in the reasonable expectation that prices would at least somewhat reflect market reality (which they do not). I'd be pizzed too if I had wasted my valuable time reviewing the scans and inquiring for prices and received back prices that were multiples of fair value (and no one has ever accused me of being a flipper, given I've never done so in 8 years of art collecting). I have to agree with John as well - if these are so dear and difficult to let go, why were they available for sale until recently at fractions of the current asking prices? (shrug)

 

All these :screwy: prices make me want to do is buy more Adlard WD art. Just received the cover to the WD Omnibus Vol. 2 this week (see below) - for a "mere" $2,500...not enough to buy TMoore's throwaways now. :blush:

 

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ashsaytr

ashsaytr

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um quick question... if the prices were steep before because they were dear to him... when the show hit and everyone began to clammer to his site to purchase that art... wouldn't it make sense to jack the prices to another barely attainable $ amount? doesn't mean he won't sell, but your gonna have to go high or step aside... ~

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Dano

Dano

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And we're allowed to call bull on your ability to read an artist's mind.

 

Dan

 

Dan,

 

Absolutely that is your right as well. (thumbs u

 

I guess my only question to you is then in your opinion why did a spam soliciting email go out to the general public for sale of such pieces of artwork to begin with if he has really no intention of selling the pieces? (shrug)

 

John

 

I guess I just don't see this as black and white (pun intended) as you do. I think he DOES want to sell these pieces, but he's probably keenly aware of their current popularity and is torn between keeping his unique creations and putting food on the table. So, if they happen to sell at insane prices, it's a win-win and probably feels more justified. This is just a guess. Why does he have to be either a con artist or some guy that makes his fans happy by selling under market?

 

Dan

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Dano

Dano

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um quick question... if the prices were steep before because they were dear to him... when the show hit and everyone began to clammer to his site to purchase that art... wouldn't it make sense to jack the prices to another barely attainable $ amount? doesn't mean he won't sell, but your gonna have to go high or step aside... ~

 

That's what I meant.

 

Dan

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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I don't doubt that Tony and Kara are nice people and that the art is near and dear to them and would take a lot of money to get them to part with it. Even before the recent price hikes, they were already richly priced for that reason (I know this because friends of mine have collected and/or inquired about the art in the past).

 

However, the reason why I sympathize with John is that they sent out an unsolicited e-mail proclaiming the art was for sale and then came back with prices that are, frankly, astonishing. This is not like someone sending me a "Hey, how much would you sell that piece in your CAF gallery for" e-mail and me responding with a price that's 5x FMV. In that case, the piece is marked "Not For Sale" implying it would require KRAZY money to get me to part with it. On the other hand, if I sent out an e-mail blast saying that a bunch of my pieces were for sale and then responded with 5x FMV prices to anyone who asked, I can see why people might be irked by it.

 

If this was not Tony and his wife, but rather the Donnellys (somewhat notorious comic art dealers) selling the art, everyone would be up in arms. But, because he is a beloved artist who co-created a popular title, people are going out of their way to defend him. So many people in the art world rip on the Donnellys for advertising pieces for sale and then coming back with very high prices when you inquire about them. But, the prices for Tony's WD art, on a percentage mark-up over FMV (and, yes, me and 99.999% of seasoned OA collectors would challenge that these prices are remotely near a market-clearing level no matter what anyone claims), would even make the Donnellys blush. It's not quite New Mutants CGC 9.9 egregious, but, one of a kind or not, it's not far off either.

 

By all means, the Moores and the Donnellys and everyone else who owns art should be able to ask whatever price they want for it. But, anyone actively soliciting buyers and then being this aggressive with pricing I think should expect and accept that those who took the time to study and inquire about the art might feel a little aggrieved that their time was wasted (again, that doesn't make them bad people, though).

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Dano

Dano

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I don't doubt that Tony and Kara are nice people and that the art is near and dear to them and would take a lot of money to get them to part with it. Even before the recent price hikes, they were already richly priced for that reason (I know this because friends of mine have collected and/or inquired about the art in the past).

 

However, the reason why I sympathize with John is that they sent out an unsolicited e-mail proclaiming the art was for sale and then came back with prices that are, frankly, astonishing. This is not like someone sending me a "Hey, how much would you sell that piece in your CAF gallery for" e-mail and me responding with a price that's 5x FMV. In that case, the piece is marked "Not For Sale" implying it would require KRAZY money to get me to part with it. On the other hand, if I sent out an e-mail blast saying that a bunch of my pieces were for sale and then responded with 5x FMV prices to anyone who asked, I can see why people might be irked by it.

 

If this was not Tony and his wife, but rather the Donnellys (somewhat notorious comic art dealers) selling the art, everyone would be up in arms. But, because he is a beloved artist who co-created a popular title, people are going out of their way to defend him. So many people in the art world rip on the Donnellys for advertising pieces for sale and then coming back with very high prices when you inquire about them. But, the prices for Tony's WD art, on a percentage mark-up over FMV (and, yes, me and 99.999% of seasoned OA collectors would challenge that these prices are remotely near a market-clearing level no matter what anyone claims), would even make the Donnellys blush. It's not quite New Mutants CGC 9.9 egregious, but, one of a kind or not, it's not far off either.

 

By all means, the Moores and the Donnellys and everyone else who owns art should be able to ask whatever price they want for it. But, anyone actively soliciting buyers and then being this aggressive with pricing I think should expect and accept that those who took the time to study and inquire about the art might feel a little aggrieved that their time was wasted (again, that doesn't make them bad people, though).

 

Totally get your point. However, I'm curious about this whole "time being wasted" bit. It's a hobby, right? Researching, inquiring etc... is all part of the fun, no? This isn't shopping around for health insurance or whatnot. It's supposed to be part of the thrill. I get being disappointed in his pricing, but I challenge the loss of valuable time. Maybe I'm not seasoned enough. (shrug)

 

Dan

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easyt63

easyt63

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The bottom line is Tony and Kara could have put a line in their initial email stating that while the art for sale section has been updated with all available pages, be warned that they carry a premium price. It seems like (and this is what I felt) a lot of people got excited and immediately went on to check out the pages, emailed Kara for pricing as fast ad they could, thinking these pages would go fast and you don't want to miss out, and you get that email response with pricing and are like WTF? It leaves you deflated for sure. I got really excited, got worked up trying to send my email as fast as possible..

 

 

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