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Scoring Changes

Started by Gemma,

250 posts in this topic

Icculus308win

Icculus308win

Posted
Posted
Well, I have given examples of rarity, desirability and price. If none of these are factors, I am not sure what is.

 

You hit them all Mike with these examples.

 

 

In order I would go with: Rarity, Price and than Desirability.

 

(DD #7 is a good example)

 

Isn't price just a reflection of desirability ? It would seem price and desirability are synonymous.

 

Not really. You could have thousand osfpeople wanting a certain book but only 40 being able to afford it.

 

 

That is how I would explicate the distinction. (thumbs u

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Boozad

Boozad

Posted
Posted
Well, I have given examples of rarity, desirability and price. If none of these are factors, I am not sure what is.

 

You hit them all Mike with these examples.

 

 

In order I would go with: Rarity, Price and than Desirability.

 

(DD #7 is a good example)

 

Isn't price just a reflection of desirability ? It would seem price and desirability are synonymous.

 

Not really. You could have thousands of people wanting a certain book but only 40 being able to afford it.

That is how I would explicate the distinction. (thumbs u

 

But if the higher spenders ever became sated the price of the book would then start to drop.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
Isn't price just a reflection of desirability ? It would seem price and desirability are synonymous.

 

Not really. You could have thousands of people wanting a certain book but only 40 being able to afford it.

And sometimes one or two of the three characteristics can outweigh the others when it comes to registry points. Take New Mutants 98 as an example.

 

Price: 9.8's sell for an average of $250, 9.6's for $80-$90.

 

Rarity: Not rare in 9.6 or 9.8 (629 x 9.8's, 666 x 9.6's).

 

Desirability: Medium-high to high.

 

Registry Points: 35 points for a 9.8, 20 points for a 9.6 - Ouch!

 

So if someone purchases the most desirable book in the entire New Mutants run for $200 (+), they find out rarity cancels out price and desirability as they are on equal competitive footing with the same person that has a New Mutants 1 CGC 9.8 with 35 points in the registry. And the latter goes for what, $40-$50? I'd feel a little surprised if I was that collector.

 

And yet a Wolverine Limited Series 1 with 1,095 x 9.8's and 1,673 x 9.6's goes for 600 points and 375 points, respectively, and with that book price is far below New Mutants 9.8 and desirability is maybe Medium.

 

Something is wrong with this picture, which is why I was comparing across sets. The logic applied seems inconsistent.

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted

Just for grins and giggles, here is my comparison of various second issue 9.2-graded point totals. Most of the titles come from my collection but a few come from this thread.

 

Human Torch (1940) 13000 points

Planet Comics (1940) 10000 points

X-men (1963) 4400 points

Exciting Comics (1940) 3600 points

Avengers (1964) 3600 points

Jungle Comics (1940) 3600 points

Captain Midnight (1942) 3113 points

Fight Comics (1940) 2588 points

Myster in Space (1952) 2600 points

Fighting Yank (1943) 2475 points

Weird Fantasy (1950) 2200 points

Startling Comics (1940) 2100 points

Tales to Astonish (1960) 1600 points

Crime SuspenStories (1950) 1500 points

Black Cat Comics(1946) 750 points

Kaanga Comics (1949) 563 points

Albedo (1984) 450 points

Conan the Barbarian (1970) 270 points

Defenders (1972) 100 points

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles (1984) 98

Marvel Team-up (1972) 85 points

Captain Marvel (1968) 75 points

Doctor Strange (1974) 55 points

Ultimate Spider-man (00) 24 points

Godzilla (1977) 20 points

Ms. Marvel (1977) 9 points

John Carter, Warloard of Mars (1977) 6 points

ROM (1980) 6 points

Guardians of the Galaxy (2008) 5 points

Moon Knight (1980) 4 points

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted

Overall, the point distribution makes some sense though there are some titles that defy the norm. For BA titles, Conan is very high. For modern titles, Ultimate Spider-man defies comprehension given the number of HG copies that have been graded and what they sell for. Albedo, well, I just have to give that one a WTF?

 

BA titles in general are considered pretty worthless, even in 9.8. From a Registry point of view, a 9.2 BA title is worthless.

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Disproportionalty high.

 

The last CGC 9.2 copy of Albedo #2 sold for $1,000 which means that you're spending more than $2 for a single registry point - compare that to your X-Men #2 in CGC 9.2 (last GPA sale $4,027) where each registry point "costs" less than $1.

 

If anything, I'd say the Albedo #2 is scored too low.

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted
Disproportionalty high.

 

The last CGC 9.2 copy of Albedo #2 sold for $1,000 which means that you're spending more than $2 for a single registry point - compare that to your X-Men #2 in CGC 9.2 (last GPA sale $4,027) where each registry point "costs" less than $1.

 

If anything, I'd say the Albedo #2 is scored too low.

 

I'm guessing but I'd say it is the highest scoring modern 9.2 in the Registry. A Grendel 2 9.6 is only worth 250. What other modern book comes close?

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
Copper or modern doesn't really matter. It still looks like the highest scoring 9.2. Are there any other Bronze Age 9.2s that score that high other than X-men 94?

 

I figured since you were doing a general comparison of 9.2's that it wasn't about the content or rarity involved, and therefore not knowing the history of the particular books analyzed.

 

Albedo #2 had a print run of 2,000 copies, introduced the 1st Usagi Yojimbo, and is considered one of the key books that laid the groundwork for the Copper Age independent explosion. TMNT #1 is the key book from that period which kicked off independent publisher acceptance, but Albedo #2 assisted in this effort, and is always high on the desire list for many Copper Age/independent collectors. Two months ago someone posted a raw copy, and even though it appeared to be at best an 8.0, it sold for $600-$700.

 

The current points assigned to this book would appear too low compared to the demand and scarcity and price of this book. But if you are more of a mainline character collector from companies like Marvel or DC, it may not make sense without knowing the significance of Albedo #2.

 

I hope that explanation helps a little.

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Copper or modern doesn't really matter. It still looks like the highest scoring 9.2. Are there any other Bronze Age 9.2s that score that high other than X-men 94?

 

I figured since you were doing a general comparison of 9.2's that it wasn't about the content or rarity involved, and therefore not knowing the history of the particular books analyzed.

 

Albedo #2 had a print run of 2,000 copies, introduced the 1st Usagi Yojimbo, and is considered one of the key books that laid the groundwork for the Copper Age independent explosion. TMNT #1 is the key book from that period which kicked off independent publisher acceptance, but Albedo #2 assisted in this effort, and is always high on the desire list for many Copper Age/independent collectors. Two months ago someone posted a raw copy, and even though it appeared to be at best an 8.0, it sold for $600-$700.

 

The current points assigned to this book would appear too low compared to the demand and scarcity and price of this book. But if you are more of a mainline character collector from companies like Marvel or DC, it may not make sense without knowing the significance of Albedo #2.

 

I hope that explanation helps a little.

 

Well said :thumbsup:

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Copper or modern doesn't really matter. It still looks like the highest scoring 9.2. Are there any other Bronze Age 9.2s that score that high other than X-men 94?

 

Albedo 2 in 9.2 has a strong argument that it is rarer and in comparable demand (at least as far as demand keeps prices high) to any of the top tier BA books. I would say that Hulk 181, GSX 1, XM 94 and maybe MS 5 are slightly stronger performers in 9.2 but not by much, if at all.

 

All marvel zombies should occasionally remember: a book doesn't have to have "Marvel Comics Group" across the top to be key, desirable or valuable.

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cheetah

cheetah

Posted
Posted
Copper or modern doesn't really matter. It still looks like the highest scoring 9.2. Are there any other Bronze Age 9.2s that score that high other than X-men 94?

 

Albedo 2 in 9.2 has a strong argument that it is rarer and in comparable demand (at least as far as demand keeps prices high) to any of the top tier BA books. I would say that Hulk 181, GSX 1, XM 94 and maybe MS 5 are slightly stronger performers in 9.2 but not by much, if at all.

 

All marvel zombies should occasionally remember: a book doesn't have to have "Marvel Comics Group" across the top to be key, desirable or valuable.

 

FWIW, I was collecting seriously all through the independent period of the early 80s so I'm pretty aware of what was going on. I've literally got thousands of them raw. Just coz I preferred Marvel doesn't mean I don't understand the comic market.

 

My honest opinion is that any BA, CA, or MA book in 9.2 doesn't really qualify as a significant copy. For most SA titles, a 9.2 doesn't qualify as a significant copy. Even for some GA titles, a 9.2 barely qualifies as a nice copy.

 

I'm not trying to offend anyone but Albedo 2 is, at best, a minor key. Yusagi Yojimbo is a cool character and I actually think he is cooler than the turtles. But the pool of collectors for the book is limited. If you had 600 graded copies, like 9.8 copies of Wolverine LS 1, you wouldn't be able to give them away. The fact that you can have 600 9.8 copies of Wolverine LS 1 and a new one will still sell in a heart beat, is an indication of true demand.

 

I went ahead and compiled a 9.8 score sheet for the same #2 issues:

 

'Human Torch (1940) 69,000 points

'Planet Comics (1940) 56,000 points

'X-men (1963) 23,000 points

'Exciting Comics (1940) 19,000 points

'Avengers (1964) 19,200 points

'Jungle Comics (1940) 19,000 points

'Captain Midnight (1942) 16,600 points

'Fight Comics (1940) 13,800 points

'Myster in Space (1952) 14,000 points

'Fighting Yank (1943) 13,200 points

'Weird Fantasy (1950) 12,000 points

'Startling Comics (1940) 11,000 points

'Tales to Astonish (1960) 8,600 points

'Crime SuspenStories (1950) 8,000 points

'Black Cat Comics(1946) 4,000 points

'Kaanga Comics (1949) 3,000 points

'Albedo (1984) 2,400 points

'Conan the Barbarian (1970) 1,440 points

'Defenders (1972) 1,520 points

'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turles (1984) 520 points

'Marvel Team-up (1972) 440 points

'Captain Marvel (1968) 400 points

'Doctor Strange (1974) 280 points

'Ultimate Spider-man (00) 128 points

'Godzilla (1977) 100 points

'Ms. Marvel (1977) 48 points

'John Carter, Warloard of Mars (1977) 32 points

'ROM (1980) 35 points

'Guardians of the Galaxy (2008) 24 points

'Moon Knight (1980) 25 points

 

My general thought on it is that some of the GA point totals are low. Heck, most of these don't have a 9.8 graded. Some may have a 9.0 as the highest graded.

 

SA Marvels get the red-carpet treatment, SA X-men in particular. BA Marvels get little, if any, respect. What the heck is up with Moon Knight when a book 38 years older and in the same condition is worth only 1 point less.

 

Ultimate Spider-man is heavily over-valued. A 9.8 copy of issue 2 goes for peanuts now.

 

You can draw your own opinion about Albedo 2. I'm not trying to make this a soap box against a single title.

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted

 

I was just :baiting: at your seemingly marvel centric view. No big deal, and no offense intended.

 

I think Albedo 2 is a perfect example case. It is definitely a niche book, with a very small number of collectors compared to a mainline SA Marvel title. But small base or not, the price has stayed high and copies are still relatively tough to come by. So how do you balance out the fact that it is a black and white grail, but completely overlooked by the mainstream collector?

 

At the end of the day, that is probably why I stay in these conversations, because I think Gemma and CGC have tried to set up a system that doesn't give any area of collecting short shrift. It is also why I argue against cost-based or constantly fluctuating point values. I think the Registry is better served by continuing to increase the number of sets and increase participation than it is to allocate time to adjusting individual sets that people think are "unfair."

 

It is hard to make the Registry all things for all people, because collecting is so intensely personal at its core. We all have different connections to different books. My main takeaway from this process is that i would rather have the scarce resources (aka Gemma) making new sets and keeping sets updated with new books, as opposed to redoing point totals.

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
Disproportionalty high.

 

The last CGC 9.2 copy of Albedo #2 sold for $1,000 which means that you're spending more than $2 for a single registry point - compare that to your X-Men #2 in CGC 9.2 (last GPA sale $4,027) where each registry point "costs" less than $1.

 

If anything, I'd say the Albedo #2 is scored too low.

I pay $3 to $5 for a single registry point for the majority of my books. (More is some cases) $2 per point would be great. That's one of the points I was trying to make earlier in this thread. (Along with the fact that the books I collect are rare and in high demand).
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