Richard Rae & The curious case of the Mike Royer light-boxed artworks . . .

[Terry Doyle]

I relation to Jack's signature...I have no idea as I didn't commision the art.

 

Any other stupid questions please just ask...while your "trying" to give me a hard time at least your leaving some else alone.

 

 

Interestingly, I checked through some correspondence I had going with D*i*c*k Rae of last year.

 

D*i*c*k forwarded me a copy of an e-mail he sent to Glen Gold (which came about as a result of D*i*c*k posting a CAF image of a Royer lightbox job of a Kirby Red Skull drawing that Glen owned).

 

In the (above) quoted text, D*i*c*k tells us that he had nothing to do with commissioning Mike Royer.

 

'Fraid not . . .

 

Here's an abridged e-mail sent by D*i*c*k to Glen Gold, which was then forwarded to me (and if D*i*c*k tries to make out that I've altered anything, I'll be happy to ask Glen to confirm that - other than to delete superfluous text - everything is accurate):

 

Message Received: Jul 28 2010, 08:10 PM

From: "Kerry Pocock"

To: terencedoyle@fsmail.net

Cc:

Subject: RE: reply from Richard re: Kirby/Royer

 

Hi Terry

 

With respect I believe you are making to much out of this and I ask you to “stop”

 

Below is my recent reply to Glen, who now is happy.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

Hi Glen

 

In the new run of comic books I’m working on I’ve employed a number of overseas artists like Buckler, Royer and heaps of others, all mostly inking my own pencil art, even Al Williamson inked one of my cover drawings...you can see some examples of the artists I’ve used so far in my CAF gallery...with Royer available to do more art for me it was impossible for me not to ask him to also do some of my favourite Kirby drawings for me...however now he will just be working on my pencil art for my stories.

 

Some original art I have at the moment I have had great scans made so I can sell those originals now...for example the Red Skull inked drawing...I already have suitable scans to use in the article so if you wish you can just buy it off me or trade some other art you have for it...I’m easy...I’ll most likely keep the Dr. Doom...plus Royer did two other Kirby/Royer drawings for me, one of KAZAR and the other of Captain America.I really love Mike Royer’s inks...did you know that you can reduce any of his original art to the size of a stamp and you can still see every line clearly...just amazing.

 

Kindest regards

 

Richard in Australia

[Terry Doyle]

...i said "thief"... and from my perspective someone who lies or deceives for money or anything else falls into that category... but in case i'm wrong... i dug up the definition for everyones benefit...

 

thief   

[theef] Show IPA

–noun, plural thieves.

a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny.

Use thief in a Sentence

Origin:

before 900; Middle English; Old English thēof; cognate with Dutch dief, German Dieb, Old Norse thjōfr, Gothic thiufs

 

—Related forms

un·der·thief, noun, plural -thieves.

 

—Can be confused:  burglar, mugger, robber, thief (see synonym note at the current entry ).

 

—Synonyms

burglar, pickpocket, highwayman. Thief, robber refer to one who steals. A thief takes the goods or property of another by stealth without the latter's knowledge: like a thief in the night. A robber trespasses upon the house, property, or person of another, and makes away with things of value, even at the cost of violence: A robber held up two women on the street.

 

Let's not forget D*i*c*k's ease at telling lies.

 

How does the definition for 'liar' go . . ?

[Speedy-D]

Back to the lightbox pieces, when you're no huge seller and you need to sell you're compelled to use Kirby, or original art as key words or you won't raise a $ ...That's the truth, the dread truth where selling a Royer original without the use of Kirby original doesn't sell properly...while there is no specific description regarding the actual REAL thing ( a Kirby pencil underneath ) it is not fair from people actually dealing THOUSANDS on comicart to claim the description to be false or misleading ...( it can be misleading to a newcomer but not to an experienced collector and well that's how we grow experienced anyway...)

Huh? I'm trying to understand your posts, but you don't make it easy. What do you mean by "sell properly?" Do you mean that you won't get as much money for a Mike Royer drawing as you would for a Jack Kirby & Mike Royer drawing? Of course you won't, Kirby is one of the most sought after of comic artists, and Mike Royer isn't.

 

As for the statement, "it is not fair from people actually dealing THOUSANDS on comicart to claim the description to be false or misleading," what does one's sales volume have to do with the fairness of their calling BS on a sale?

[ashsaytr]

 

Let's not forget D*i*c*k's ease at telling lies.

 

How does the definition for 'liar' go . . ?

 

 

li·ar   

[lahy-er] Show IPA

–noun

a person who tells lies.

Use liar in a Sentence

Origin:

before 950; Middle English lier, Old English lēogere. See lie1 , -ar1

 

—Can be confused:  liar, lyre.

 

—Synonyms

falsifier, perjurer, prevaricator.

 

...and knowing is half the battle! (thumbs u

[Terry Doyle]

And I should just mention the reason behind the quoted correspondence . . .

 

When Glen Gold posted the pencil drawing of his RED SKULL drawing on CAF, it had a large watermark positioned over the art (to prevent people from taking scans).

 

I attached a comment to Glen's Kirby drawing, complaining about the watermark (which detracted from my enjoyment of the art).

 

Glen re-considered and subsequently uploaded a new scan of the art minus watermark.

 

Some months later, Glen mentioned to me the Royer lightbox job that appeared on D*i*c*k's CAF.

 

This prompted me to contact D*i*c*k - who then assured me that he never lifted Glen's drawing (whether or not this is true, is now incidental).

 

In the ensuing correnpondence, I highlighted to D*i*c*k that he needed to amend his despcriptions of the Royer lightboxed artworks (which only recently have been amended).

 

I relation to Jack's signature...I have no idea as I didn't commision the art.

 

Any other stupid questions please just ask...while your "trying" to give me a hard time at least your leaving some else alone.

 

 

Interestingly, I checked through some correspondence I had going with D*i*c*k Rae of last year.

 

D*i*c*k forwarded me a copy of an e-mail he sent to Glen Gold (which came about as a result of D*i*c*k posting a CAF image of a Royer lightbox job of a Kirby Red Skull drawing that Glen owned).

 

In the (above) quoted text, D*i*c*k tells us that he had nothing to do with commissioning Mike Royer.

 

'Fraid not . . .

 

Here's an abridged e-mail sent by D*i*c*k to Glen Gold, which was then forwarded to me (and if D*i*c*k tries to make out that I've altered anything, I'll be happy to ask Glen to confirm that - other to delete superfluous text - everything is accurate):

 

Message Received: Jul 28 2010, 08:10 PM

From: "Kerry Pocock"

To: terencedoyle@fsmail.net

Cc:

Subject: RE: reply from Richard re: Kirby/Royer

 

Hi Terry

 

With respect I believe you are making to much out of this and I ask you to “stop”

 

Below is my recent reply to Glen, who now is happy.

 

Regards

 

Richard

 

Hi Glen

 

In the new run of comic books I’m working on I’ve employed a number of overseas artists like Buckler, Royer and heaps of others, all mostly inking my own pencil art, even Al Williamson inked one of my cover drawings...you can see some examples of the artists I’ve used so far in my CAF gallery...with Royer available to do more art for me it was impossible for me not to ask him to also do some of my favourite Kirby drawings for me...however now he will just be working on my pencil art for my stories.

 

Some original art I have at the moment I have had great scans made so I can sell those originals now...for example the Red Skull inked drawing...I already have suitable scans to use in the article so if you wish you can just buy it off me or trade some other art you have for it...I’m easy...I’ll most likely keep the Dr. Doom...plus Royer did two other Kirby/Royer drawings for me, one of KAZAR and the other of Captain America.I really love Mike Royer’s inks...did you know that you can reduce any of his original art to the size of a stamp and you can still see every line clearly...just amazing.

 

Kindest regards

 

Richard in Australia

[batman_fan]

Is it just me or are others thinking this guy from down under is deserving of the dou ch bag of the year award.

[Terry Doyle]

Okay, I've now heard back from Joan - who has also forwarded me copies of D*i*c*k Rae's corresondence (I'll let you, dear reader, be the judge of what you see). Joan is a Spanish collector, so please bear this in mind when you see the attempts at writing in English:

 

Joan (to me, Terry Doyle):

 

"Hi Terry,

 

This week I stay out of home most the time and as I said, I can’t reply e-mails. I will do this during next week, on Monday or Tuesday, but not now. Also, my English is very poor and i needed time to read the message and respond appropriately.

 

Below you’ll find my recent and brief conversation with Richard.

 

Please make it clair that I never started this controversy. My wish was to try to find a reasonable solution with Richard (Royer's drawings have now other owners, of course knowing that they were never touched by Kirby). But now it seems to be useless to talk with Richard.

 

We are in contact. Thanks for your email!

 

Joan"

 

D*i*c*k Rae:

 

"Dearest Joan

 

I bring to your attention that in recent weeks I have been the target of negative slurs against me...and I am informed that this originated from you.

Their four I am contacting you directly as I have never gone behind some ones back in the past.

 

As I’m sure you remember we struck a trade deal...during the negotiations I answered all of your questions that you put to me as well I provided as much information as what was known to me at that time...and I did this under difficult circumstances as I was extremely ill at the time and was placed in hospital for a number of weeks...make no mistake my condition was life threatening.

 

During my stay in hospital I continued to stay in contact with you, sometimes via my friend Kerry (who’s computer I use)...please note: Kerry is not some con name that I use.

 

I am NOT a dealer in original comic art nor am I a collector...my CAF gallery says this and I also told you this...value on art means nothing to me as I never obtain art for profit at resale...I just trade.

 

After our deal was completed you expressed to me that you had made an error...note: that at no time did you say or infer that I coned you or ripped you off.

I then assured you of a number of things...mainly that when I was finished with the art (that I needed for reference, remember?) then I was happy to trade it back to you, plus you said you were happy for me to offer the Biffignandi to Eric (does any of this ring a bell with you? ...do you now remember?).

 

I placed a few of the items we traded onto ebay (along with other items) at extremely high starting prices knowing full well that no one would bid on them, I did this to gain contacts only.

 

Joan I have never gone back on any deal or promise I have made...but I’m thinking about doing it now!

 

Your American friend “Terry” has been giving me a hard time and I’m getting feed-up with it...and rightly so.

 

If you want me to fulfil my promise to you and offer the art you traded to me back to you when I am finished with it...then you are to immediately notify Terry to close down his form on me and to leave me alone...if this does not happen at once then I will retract my promise to you...and this will be the first time in my life that I have done so for any of the promises I have ever made...but I will do it this time.

 

Yes Joan...you may have a case of “buyer’s remorse” but at no time did I mislead you in any way...now as you started this I insist that you put a firm stop to it...now!.

 

Kindest regards as always;

 

Richard Rae in Australia"

 

D*i*c*k Rae (impatient for a reply):

 

"Dearest Joan

 

It’s disheartening that you have not replied to my email...I’ll give you until late this afternoon and then my promise to you will be retracted."

 

Joan:

 

"Hi Richard,

Thanks for your e-mail and sorry for my late reply, This is a very complicated week for me (personal and work reasons) and at this moment I don’t have the time to reply accurately your e-mail. I will do it as soon as possible.

 

Please be patient. Thank you.

 

Joan.

 

D*i*c*k:

 

"Joan

 

Simply unacceptable...you have read my last two emails so there is nothing more to say...I was happy to trade you back the art we traded when I was finished with them...but after everything that has happened you leave me no other choice but to cut off all future contact with you.

 

Sorry your having a “very complicated” week...but your refusal to address this serious situation immediately leaves me no other option.

 

Good bye for good Joan.

 

Richard "

[Terry Doyle]

D*i*c*k Rae:

 

"Dearest Joan

 

I am NOT a dealer in original comic art nor am I a collector...my CAF gallery says this and I also told you this...value on art means nothing to me as I never obtain art for profit at resale...I just trade.

 

Your American friend “Terry” has been giving me a hard time and I’m getting feed-up with it...and rightly so.

 

 

Interesting to note (from the two extracted paragraphs from D*i*c*k's letter to Joan is that he, "never obtains art for profit at resale" . . .

 

Also, that he thinks that I'm an American . . .

 

I won't mention the bit about him getting 'feed-up' with me

 

I don't have a problem with him mistaking me for an American (Even though I'm British) . . . some of the people I hold in the highest of regard are Americans.

 

As for the business of D*i*c*k never obtaining art for re-sale . . . what was the point of his eBay auction/s?

 

And why did he offer one of the two paintings he swindled from Joan for sale at (initially) $5,000 . . . later reduced to $3,000?

[comix4fun]

What did I learn from that email exchange?

 

1) That Terry is American.

 

 

2) That at no time had Richard "coned" Joan...which I believe is considered assault in most jurisdictions.

 

 

3) That Joan, being Spanish and not speaking English fluently, is more adept at English grammar and spelling than Richard for whom I assume English is his first language.

 

 

4) That "offer" to undo the trade and refund Joan her artwork or money seems as genuine and as sincere as the intention to keep the native's "warm" when they were given smallpox blankets during the French and Indian War.

[Terry Doyle]

What did I learn from that email exchange?

 

1) That Terry is American.

 

 

God bless mom, apple pie and the American way of life . . .

[Royd]

I'd previously come into contact with Richard a couple of years back and we chatted about Stanley Pitt (whom he'd known personally), the first Aussie comic con (which he was responsible for arranging) and about various other subjects.

 

Richard came across as a decent enough chap and expressed his interest in trading artwork but I said that while I admired the Stanley Pitt artwork he owned, I wasn't interested in trading. He did send me a copy of a Stanley Pitt illustrated comic which he published some time back which I thought was a considerate gesture.

 

However, his inability to recognise the need to accurately describe lightboxed or blue-line inked pieces as such was of concern and this latest debacle has greatly disappointed me.

 

It certainly appears from the information available, that Richard had no real intention of trading back the artwork. He was quick to try to lay the blame elsewhere (on me and others for joining in the apparent "attack" on his reputation) even though his own correspondence states a different reason for reneging on his offer (lack of supposedly timely response from Joan). Best,

 

Royd

 

 

[lb jefferies]

Richard Rae seems to have an unlimited supply of shovels

[Terry Doyle]

Richard Rae seems to have an unlimited supply of shovels

 

He's also full of the brown smelly stuff . . . and is someone to steer clear of.

 

 

[jeremyslawsky]

Things in this thread that seem to be confusing:

 

1. Why would he take art to use as reference, what is he doing with the art that he would need this?

 

2. How would you expect to make contacts by listing art on eBay for higher prices?

[Terry Doyle]

Things in this thread that seem to be confusing:

 

1. Why would he take art to use as reference, what is he doing with the art that he would need this?

 

2. How would you expect to make contacts by listing art on eBay for higher prices?

 

In the land of 'D*i*c*k Rae', all things are possible.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be back with more stories to astound and confuse . . .

[DeadOne]

After reading through the entire thread in one sitting, Richard shows all the classic signs of a "scammer".

 

• mis-leading listing
• denial and double talk when asked to provide more information and surprise when confronted with mistakes and inaccuracies
• attack the accuser (or in this case simply those asking for explanations)
• responses become incoherent (as if someone new is now responding) at the same time labeling others as mentally unstable
• offer to fix problem (or state that problem has already been/is being fixed)
• quickly retract offer and disappear
  

 

Sadly, this typically means that this person will emerge (or re-emerge) somewhere again with a similar M.O.

 

Although I personally do not deal in or collect OA, I do enjoy looking at others pieces and reading the pride that comes through in their postings. Threads like this are an invaluable asset to all collectors by not only exposing certain individuals, but by teaching the mindset and tactics of those who will try to deceive for profit. Kudos to all of you and my sympathies for all those who have been adversely affected by this person.

[Michael (OML)]

I find it amusing that Richard places much emphasis on HIS being in the hospital and still responding but he is unable to give Joan any time for a difficult week.

 

Richard Rae - your actions are dishonorable and your rationale for your behavior is flimsy. I see your explanations as mere pretext.

 

M

[Terry Doyle]

I find it amusing that Richard places much emphasis on HIS being in the hospital and still responding but he is unable to give Joan any time for a difficult week.

 

Richard Rae - your actions are dishonorable and your rationale for your behavior is flimsy. I see your explanations as mere pretext.

 

M

 

If you were hospitalized, with your life hanging in the balance, would you even want to consider trading comic-book artwork?

[Terry Doyle]

I find it amusing that Richard places much emphasis on HIS being in the hospital and still responding but he is unable to give Joan any time for a difficult week.

 

Richard Rae - your actions are dishonorable and your rationale for your behavior is flimsy. I see your explanations as mere pretext.

 

M

 

If you were hospitalized, with your life hanging in the balance, would you even want to consider trading comic-book artwork?

 

I wonder if D*i*c*k was suffering from 'Pinnochio syndrome'?

 

The more lies you tell, the bigger your nose grows . . . and then you're in danger of toppling over and causing yourself real harm?

[Romain]

Back to the lightbox pieces, when you're no huge seller and you need to sell you're compelled to use Kirby, or original art as key words or you won't raise a $ ...That's the truth, the dread truth where selling a Royer original without the use of Kirby original doesn't sell properly...while there is no specific description regarding the actual REAL thing ( a Kirby pencil underneath ) it is not fair from people actually dealing THOUSANDS on comicart to claim the description to be false or misleading ...( it can be misleading to a newcomer but not to an experienced collector and well that's how we grow experienced anyway...)

Huh? I'm trying to understand your posts, but you don't make it easy. What do you mean by "sell properly?" Do you mean that you won't get as much money for a Mike Royer drawing as you would for a Jack Kirby & Mike Royer drawing? Of course you won't, Kirby is one of the most sought after of comic artists, and Mike Royer isn't.

 

I think the worst thing ever is to be Not Understood ... so yes of course I do agree with you and that's my point, you use the name of Kirby to attract more viewers to your item for sale and as long as you don't lie saying there is actual Kirby pencils underneath I don't see any BS sale ...just someone having hardtimes selling his OA ...

 

As for the statement, "it is not fair from people actually dealing THOUSANDS on comicart to claim the description to be false or misleading," what does one's sales volume have to do with the fairness of their calling BS on a sale?

 

I'm not referring to someone's sale volume but merely of us, collectors who spend barrels of dollars into comicart and I think it is quite indelicate to judge of one's low sale ..

Now I'm done backing Richard Rae I tell you !!! I heard he was bad toward Rich Buckler and yet he uses the name on the mail posted by Terry... and as I said I don't even know the guy ....I hope the spanish she-collector will get her due, not so sure she will...if I had been dumped for a week late I would have been dumped by all my comicart buddies a long time ago so what he does to her is absolutly unfair ... ...that's too bad !!!

 

Well, at least I met a new friend !!! (thumbs u