May I ask a question?

[Hamlet]

Yeah, the collection of grade over content has amazed me, having come back into the hobby in the last few years.

 

If someone had told me in 1990 that someone would have been willing to pay more for a near perfect copy of Daredevil 38 than they would for a Good copy of FF 5, I would have thought that they were insane.

 

You can buy a pretty nice copy of Daredevil 38 for $10-$15. It's a very common book of no real significance (although I do like the cover). Is it really worth $400 more to have it in a plastic case with a 9.6 on the side?

 

I'd rather have the low grade FF 5 myself.

 

There hasn't been much of a discussion about the other variable of the value equation, which is quality (or content). Maybe I'm alone, but I collect GA comics because I think the quality of art, story and overall creative exploration is better than virtually all other comics that followed. Sure, I love Marvel and DC SA classics as much as the next guy, but I'm excited about most every GA comic (with the exception of the books, Mr. Bedrock mentioned earlier in this thread ) and each one I add to my collection feels so much more important than individual high grade SA books. I see this quality difference as timeless rather than a question of current trends or fashions.

 

Also, from a market perspective, everyone seems to already be in on SA high grade, prices have been going up steadily for some time now, traditionally, that's not where the values are found.

[COI]

Superman 30 (First Mxyzptlk) 9.4 - Sold in 2006 for a little over $5000. Highest and only in grade.

Amazing Spider-man 28 (Black cover, 1st Molten Man) - $7100 - Second highest with sixteen copies as nice or better.

Fantastic Four 26 (Second part of the Avengers/FF crossover) 9.4 - Average sale $5100, with one copy selling for $12,000 - Third highest with twenty copies as nice or better including two at 9.8.

 

I don't know about comparing Superman 24 to FF 5, since FF5 is a major key, but these comparisons are good.

[Norrin_Radd]

This is a great thread. (thumbs u Thanks to all the contributors.

[MrBedrock]

Superman 30 (First Mxyzptlk) 9.4 - Sold in 2006 for a little over $5000. Highest and only in grade.

Amazing Spider-man 28 (Black cover, 1st Molten Man) - $7100 - Second highest with sixteen copies as nice or better.

Fantastic Four 26 (Second part of the Avengers/FF crossover) 9.4 - Average sale $5100, with one copy selling for $12,000 - Third highest with twenty copies as nice or better including two at 9.8.

 

I don't know about comparing Superman 24 to FF 5, since FF5 is a major key, but these comparisons are good.

The main reason I used that comparison was that Superman 24 was the earliest documented sale of a 9.4 Superman. Since there is a desire to compare apples to apples, and since it appears that some folks think comparing a 9.0 top of census golden age book to a 9.6 silver age book somehow corrupts the numbers, I went with it.

[COI]

Superman 30 (First Mxyzptlk) 9.4 - Sold in 2006 for a little over $5000. Highest and only in grade.

Amazing Spider-man 28 (Black cover, 1st Molten Man) - $7100 - Second highest with sixteen copies as nice or better.

Fantastic Four 26 (Second part of the Avengers/FF crossover) 9.4 - Average sale $5100, with one copy selling for $12,000 - Third highest with twenty copies as nice or better including two at 9.8.

 

I don't know about comparing Superman 24 to FF 5, since FF5 is a major key, but these comparisons are good.

The main reason I used that comparison was that Superman 24 was the earliest documented sale of a 9.4 Superman. Since there is a desire to compare apples to apples, and since it appears that some folks think comparing a 9.0 top of census golden age book to a 9.6 silver age book somehow corrupts the numbers, I went with it.

 

I dig, but books like ASM 28 and FF 26 make the point much more effectively, I think. (thumbs u

[Hepcat]

It seems to me you need to compare grade to grade, not 5th best existing to 5th best existing. And across the board, comparable title, key/non key, etc, GA 9.4 (for example) out paces SA by a considerable margin.

 

That is correct, and even more so than you think. If we're talking about CGC grading, CGC unapologetically grades Silver Age books more strictly than it grades Golden Age books. If you therefore wanted an absolutely accurate comparison when it comes to condition, you might have to compare a 9.4 Golden Age book to a 9.0 Silver Age book. You would then typically find that the Golden Age book is the far more expensive of the two.

 

But there's yet another factor that skews the comparison toward Golden Age being the more expensive. CGC awards blue labels to Golden Age books exhibiting only "minor" restoration.

 

If you therefore compared an unrestored Golden Age book with exactly the same eye appeal to an unrestored Silver Age book, chances are that the Golden Age book would sell for a multiple of the Silver Age book's price. Just compare the price of a CGC 9.4 Superman 25 (that you know to be unrestored) with the price of a CGC 9.0 Superman 150. Or compare the price of a 9.4 Tom & Jerry 25 to a 9.0 Tom & Jerry 200.

 

This is of course as it should be. Golden Age books in identical condition should command a far higher price than their Silver Age equivalents. The Silver Age books in identical condition might be fifty to one hundred times as common - in which case the Golden Age books would still offer the better value proposition albeit at a higher price point.

 

So, yes, many Silver Age keys trade at silly prices given their relative availability compared with their Golden Age counterparts, but it's nonetheless true that the Golden Age counterpart (somehow defined) would fetch a higher price in identical condition.

 

[MrBedrock]

Superman 30 (First Mxyzptlk) 9.4 - Sold in 2006 for a little over $5000. Highest and only in grade.

Amazing Spider-man 28 (Black cover, 1st Molten Man) - $7100 - Second highest with sixteen copies as nice or better.

Fantastic Four 26 (Second part of the Avengers/FF crossover) 9.4 - Average sale $5100, with one copy selling for $12,000 - Third highest with twenty copies as nice or better including two at 9.8.

 

I don't know about comparing Superman 24 to FF 5, since FF5 is a major key, but these comparisons are good.

The main reason I used that comparison was that Superman 24 was the earliest documented sale of a 9.4 Superman. Since there is a desire to compare apples to apples, and since it appears that some folks think comparing a 9.0 top of census golden age book to a 9.6 silver age book somehow corrupts the numbers, I went with it.

 

I dig, but books like ASM 28 and FF 26 make the point much more effectively, I think. (thumbs u

Thanks. I would love to start comparing second tier golden age titles like Police or MysteryMen but I can't think of an appropriate silver age title to compare them to. With a character like Plastic Man and his other title Police you could just about compare them grade for grade down the line as most issues can be had for cheap. And those are great Jack Cole stories that in their time were as respected as any comic.

[adamstrange]

History shows, and many dealers and experts have pounded into the collective consciousness, that the best dollar return on investment has been in the highest grades. It seems to me you need to compare grade to grade, not 5th best existing to 5th best existing.

What if you were comparing SA to BA? You're saying that we would have to compare 9.4 SA to 9.4 BA even though there is very little value typically for 9.4 BA books. That comparison would also be of little value unlike one that compared best SA to the best BA (e.g. comparing BA 9.9 and 9.8 books to SA 9.8, 9.6 and 9.4).

 

Even going with the approach you suggest, Mr.B still demonstrated the expense of SA collecting vs. GA.

 

[adamstrange]

With a character like Plastic Man and his other title Police you could just about compare them grade for grade down the line as most issues can be had for cheap. And those are great Jack Cole stories that in their time were as respected as any comic.

There is a SA Plastic Man title but it's desirability within SA is much less than the desirability of Plastic Man with the GA. You also have situations where the GA character doesn't exist at all like Catman. The best we could do is try to find titles of comparable interest within their particular age.

[Krusty007]

When I started this post I thought I would be lucky in having 3-4 responses!

 

I am amazed by people's contribution. It is the most educative post I ever read!

 

Thanks to everyone!!!!

 

Dom

[comicdonna]

When I started this post I thought I would be lucky in having 3-4 responses!

 

I am amazed by people's contribution. It is the most educative post I ever read!

 

Thanks to everyone!!!!

 

Dom

It'as a great thread for sure! (thumbs u Maybe i'll do a little research on this topic. I'm still not convinced either way.

[MrBedrock]

With a character like Plastic Man and his other title Police you could just about compare them grade for grade down the line as most issues can be had for cheap. And those are great Jack Cole stories that in their time were as respected as any comic.

There is a SA Plastic Man title but it's desirability within SA is much less than the desirability of Plastic Man with the GA. You also have situations where the GA character doesn't exist at all like Catman. The best we could do is try to find titles of comparable interest within their particular age.

The problem as I see it is that the Silver Age had two publishers, DC and Marvel. DC was the main golden age publisher, likewise Marvel for silver. Those are natural comparisons. Marvel to Timely also works. I guess DC silver could be compared to everything else. Maybe Flash to Plastic Man, or Green Lantern to Captain Marvel.

 

Here's Green Lantern to Green Lantern per GPA...

GA #1 - highest graded 9.0 - $29,000

SA #1 - 9.0 - $14,200, highest graded 9.4 - $50,700

 

GA #2 - highest graded 9.0 - $7000

SA #2 - 9.0 $1500 (2006), highest graded 9.4 - $4300 (2003! obviously this would sell for substantially more today)

 

GA #3 - highest graded 9.4 Church - $33,000

SA #3 - highest graded 9.2 - $5000

 

GA #10 - highest graded 9.4 Church - $10,100

SA #10 - highest graded 9.4 - $3000

[adamstrange]

Green Lantern is a good match-up as the original appearances are in All-American and those can be mapped against Showcase 22-24. It breaks down a bit after that because GL continued in that anthology title for several years afterward.

[Ted Knight]

With a character like Plastic Man and his other title Police you could just about compare them grade for grade down the line as most issues can be had for cheap. And those are great Jack Cole stories that in their time were as respected as any comic.

There is a SA Plastic Man title but it's desirability within SA is much less than the desirability of Plastic Man with the GA. You also have situations where the GA character doesn't exist at all like Catman. The best we could do is try to find titles of comparable interest within their particular age.

The problem as I see it is that the Silver Age had two publishers, DC and Marvel. DC was the main golden age publisher, likewise Marvel for silver. Those are natural comparisons. Marvel to Timely also works. I guess DC silver could be compared to everything else. Maybe Flash to Plastic Man, or Green Lantern to Captain Marvel.

 

Here's Green Lantern to Green Lantern per GPA...

GA #1 - highest graded 9.0 - $29,000

SA #1 - 9.0 - $14,200, highest graded 9.4 - $50,700

 

GA #2 - highest graded 9.0 - $7000

SA #2 - 9.0 $1500 (2006), highest graded 9.4 - $4300 (2003! obviously this would sell for substantially more today)

 

GA #3 - highest graded 9.4 Church - $33,000

SA #3 - highest graded 9.2 - $5000

 

GA #10 - highest graded 9.4 Church - $10,100

SA #10 - highest graded 9.4 - $3000

 

This is a great comparison, Bedrock. It really shows the relationship between keys and non-keys between the GA and SA. (thumbs u

 

I wonder what the comparison would be between Action 1-20 and AF15, Spiderman 1-20. Your comparison seems to indicate that it would hold up better in GA over SA

 

and if I had GPA, I would look it up.

[Ted Knight]

When I started this post I thought I would be lucky in having 3-4 responses!

 

I am amazed by people's contribution. It is the most educative post I ever read!

 

Thanks to everyone!!!!

 

Dom

 

Yeah, I thought at one point that you probably had no idea the knowledge and experience that these guys would bring to the question. These board members really know their stuff.

[Crowzilla]

The problem as I see it is that the Silver Age had two publishers, DC and Marvel. DC was the main golden age publisher, likewise Marvel for silver. Those are natural comparisons. Marvel to Timely also works. I guess DC silver could be compared to everything else. Maybe Flash to Plastic Man, or Green Lantern to Captain Marvel.

 

Good Comparisons Richard.

I think you could do Spider-man to Marvel Mystery and not be out of line, and agree that most DC silver could be compared to long-running GA titles. How does Blackhawk or Daredevil compare to Flash? I guess All-Star to JLA is a natural, but it's hard to find comparisons really for long-running titles like Adventure unless you do something like Famous Funnies maybe.

 

This isn't really a new phenomenon btw, it has just become more pronounced in the CGC-era. I remember pointing out in a CBM in the mid-90s that the current SA craze had caused the value of Showcase #8 to overtake Action #2 in top guide (thankfully that's not the case anymore).

And while I certainly understand the appeal of wanting to own the best graded books, I still have hard time wrapping my head around the idea that any copy of Spider-man #80 no matter how nice could be worth more than a solid VG- unrestored Amazing Fantasy #15

[Hamlet]

Yeah, that continues to boggle my mind.

 

On the plus side, the more money that chases the ultra high grade books, the better chance I have of getting a decent low-midgrade copies of the bigger keys.

 

 

And while I certainly understand the appeal of wanting to own the best graded books, I still have hard time wrapping my head around the idea that any copy of Spider-man #80 no matter how nice could be worth more than a solid VG- unrestored Amazing Fantasy #15