Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[jimjum12]

The Journey Into Mystery Venom variant (#633) looks to be heating up:

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOURNEY-INTO-MYSTERY-633-1-50-VENOM-VARIANT-MARVEL-COMIC-BOOK-THOR-JAN-2012-1-/291765153826?hash=item43ee8ef022:g:I9cAAOSw~oFXOSS4

 

-J.

 

yeah, these books just keep going up.

 

Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants

 

I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up.

 

This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up.

 

 

Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback:

 

More than a year ago

 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50

 

22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more.

 

I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong.

 

With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed.

 

-J.

 

Your math is off buddy .

 

Care to explain how?

 

-J.

 

Because you didn't do exact math and get 460.

 

I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers.

 

Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time.

 

-J.

 

This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years.

 

They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond.

 

That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses"

 

So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower?

 

Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer.

 

Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many.

 

So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices.

 

 

 

These were on a Diamond/Marvel dealer only variant sale a few years ago...$2 each....I missed out on these but got about 25 of the Uncanny X-Men 5 Venom variants out of that deal back then.

 

Have a good weekend at Tidewater Comicon, bro ? ...each time I passed your booth seemed crowded GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a fiend of jesus)

[Prince Namor]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

[Jaydogrules]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

 

I could easily see very few retailers bothering to load up on scores of copies of the dying JIM title in order to get just one of the many Venom variants that were going to be released.

 

That being the case it's not hard to imagine, as you said, even a hundred copies of a 400 copy print run still being leftover and subsequently being aquired by a favoured retailer.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that there is a scant amount of them in circulation, which becomes an issue when large amounts of collectors begin trying to complete their sets or realize how cool this, and some of the other covers really are.

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

Why? It's not even relevant.

 

Assume the cases are 200 for now. If they want 150 copies, they will get 200. If they want 500 copies, they will get 600. If they want 50236 copies, they will get 50400.

 

That the orders may be rounded up to the nearest case doesn't tell us anything about how many copies were ordered by the publisher.

[Jaydogrules]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

Actually, Paul does know.

 

And don't you too?

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=7

 

...or are you just going to default back to the "Marvel is lying" position or claim that they arbitrarily print stacks of books that no retailer has ordered again?

 

Ugh, I'm done with this conversation.

 

-J.

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

Why? It's not even relevant.

 

It IS relevant. jaydog is trying to make an assumption that the incentive factor (1:25, 1:50, 1:100, etc.) has some determination in how many copies of that variant are printed.

 

He has absolutely no proof that any such thought process exists. His assumption is based upon what he wants it to be and on no factual information whatsoever.

 

Meanwhile, we DO know that Marvel has had numerous huge variant overstock sales through Diamond every other year, and DC yearly gives out 500+ multiple overstock variants to retailers every year at SDCC.

 

You have no way of knowing how many of a variant is printed. The publisher's keep it a secret for a reason.

 

Assume the cases are 200 for now. If they want 150 copies, they will get 200. If they want 500 copies, they will get 600. If they want 50236 copies, they will get 50400.

 

There is no proof of this anywhere. In fact, as stated above, the proof shows us otherwise.

 

That the orders may be rounded up to the nearest case doesn't tell us anything about how many copies were ordered by the publisher.

 

But that's EXACTLY what jaydog is trying to show.

[FrankWhite]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

Actually, Paul does know.

 

And don't you too?

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=7

 

...or are you just going to default back to the "Marvel is lying" position or claim that they arbitrarily print stacks of books that no retailer has ordered again?

 

Ugh, I'm done with this conversation.

 

-J.

 

 

This guy is to much. I'm new and I can tell you this guy is a broken record with his silly claims on print runs like he's printing the books.

 

His math is horrible.

 

I wish he can understand. Nobody saying there not scarce.

 

It's just his slick way of rounding his numbers to the lowest hundred and making unfounded claims that annoys people.

 

I'm sure he's a great guy and I would love to have a beer with him but he is super funny.

Edited May 24, 2016 by FrankWhite

[natevegas]

Marvel would never lie to us. I'm shocked and awed such an idea would come into words. The idea the print run reported is not the actual print run of a title just blows my mind. Funny farm type stuff I tell yeah.

Edited May 24, 2016 by natevegas

[Kaboom]

So, anyone think that Henchgirl Ashcan sale will go through? Sitting at over $600....

[Kyle R.]

Jesus WTF!! This is getting a bit ridiculous.......

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111999992953?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Prince Namor]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

Actually, Paul does know.

 

Actually, no, he doesn't.

 

And don't you too?

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=7

 

Which word didn't you understand? Marvel's hardline PR stance (PR stands for Public Relations - what they WANT you to believe) was THROUGH DIAMOND. Marvel won't SAY it themselves for fear of it coming back to make them look bad when they have a massive variant sale after the fact. DIAMOND'S job is to convince the retailer that the incentives are a good thing.

 

For time, Marvel could make you believe that an issue of a comic was 'collectible'. That slowly faded.

And a #1 was collectible. And that slowly faded.

And a special event. And that slowly faded.

All that's left is the variant.

 

...or are you just going to default back to the "Marvel is lying" position or claim that they arbitrarily print stacks of books that no retailer has ordered again?

 

Of course they do. They print a certain percentage over top of the print run automatically for damages and shortages.

They also print a certain percentage over for employees and mailing list. (Marvel has a large mailing list of artists, writers, editors, who get sent comics).

On top of that.... who knows?

 

Ugh, I'm done with this conversation.

 

Doubt it. You'll keep repeating the lie that has no factual evidence and someone will call you out on it.

 

[Lazyboy]

Marvel would never lie to us. I'm shocked and awed such an idea would come into words. The idea the print run reported is not the actual print run of a title just blows my mind. Funny farm type stuff I tell yeah.

 

What reported print run?

[revat]

Marvel would never lie to us. I'm shocked and awed such an idea would come into words. The idea the print run reported is not the actual print run of a title just blows my mind. Funny farm type stuff I tell yeah.

 

What reported print run?

 

The one at the place behind the thing next to the other thing

 

Can't miss it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print.

 

The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

 

No one with any actual knowledge of the process has EVER stated this anywhere.

It is speculation made up by jaydog. There is absolutely no proof of it anywhere.

Fact.

 

And every time you or jay repeat it, I'll remind everyone of this.

 

+1

 

This misinformation is repeated over and over again.

 

Understand, dear reader, that you're being told fiction as if it were fact, and those telling that fiction are then accusing others of the very thing they do.

 

These are facts, established, undeniable, documentable:

 

1. The print runs of incentive variants ARE NOT...repeat, ARE NOT...tied to their DISTRIBUTION RATIOS in any meaningful way.

 

We know this is an established fact, because many, many of these variants have been sold after their initial release by Diamond and the publishers, sometimes LONG after, and not in trivial quantities.

 

If the print runs of the incentive variants were tied DIRECTLY to their ORDER numbers, there would be nothing but trivial amounts available after the fact, if any at all. We know this isn't true, because of the later sales of these variants, so it cannot be assumed to be true for ANY of the program.

 

2. Marvel, DC, and some others DO NOT release their print run information for these incentive variants.

 

3. It is NOT FRAUD that the publishers print more than the "ratio" would suggest, because those numbers are DISTRIBUTION numbers, not PRINT RUN numbers, and they are advertised as such.

 

The suggestion that the program is a "fraud" if the publishers don't "print to order" (or very close to it) is a red herring: the publishers don't offer any sort of guarantee as to the limited nature of the print runs in the first place.

 

In other words: how can a "claim" be fraudulent if it's never made at all?

 

4. The numbers at Comichron are estimates of sales in North America for the Direct market. They DO NOT include sales to the rest of the English-speaking world, they DO NOT include sales (if applicable) to the newsstand market, and they DO NOT reveal what was actually printed.

 

Therefore, anyone coming along and saying "well, the print run for the regular book was around 23,000, so that must mean the 1:50....let me do some quick math here....only has 460 copies on the market!" doesn't understand the program, or chooses not to understand the program, and is telling you things that aren't true.

 

You have to ask yourself: why do a handful of people keep repeating this misinformation, when they have been corrected over and over again?

 

And....you also have to ask yourself why people tolerate it when it's done?

 

And....you also have to ask yourself why, when these things are brought up, that those trying to assert these fictions rush to hyperbole by saying things like "oh, well, I guess there are just millions of them sitting in warehouses somewhere by the pallet, right???"

 

No. No one's saying that. But the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. In other words, just because we don't know how much the publishers print, doesn't mean we can't understand how the program works, and that we can demonstrate that distribution ratios are not tied to print runs.

[Prince Namor]

+1

[Lonzilla]

Without quoting a page long thread...

One of my LCS's had 50 or so copies of Captain Marvel #17 2nd printing from one of the Diamond blowout sales a month after it was released, and they can't be the only one, so the alleged 1,000 copies print run of that issue is very suspect.

 

As for the "Marvel keeps copies for whatever purpose" here's one: When the ASM 678 variant was starting to hit $50, there was a story on the news here about a special needs kid in the Philly suburbs who made a comic book vending machine with the help of his science teacher. Marvel heard about it and sent him a bunch of books and when the news cameras showed his vending machine at the school, in the front of one of the pegs was the ASM 678 variant. Really.

I wasn't about to drive out to the sticks for a $50 book but wish I had

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lonzilla

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

 

[Plantman]

 

 

Whose hoard is that?

[Lonzilla]

 

Slab those suckers!

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

 

What's your point? That wasn't an incentive variant.